Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

[squirrel]

Super picture.

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

I snapped this one up thinking, with the flaming grenades and the Mills Orndorff Equipment that it was Grenadier Guards. Once scanned it it becomes clear with the short two letter title,cap badge and Brodrick style that they are most likely Royal Fusiliers c1904.   They are clearly marching at ease, the mounted officer has a cigar on the go, and even a couple of ORs behind him are smoking. Interesting to see the signalers up front. The Sjt Major and another officer marching are also visible . 

Edited 6 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

3 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

I

 

Definitely Royal Fusiliers, Toby, I can see the distinctive pointed top to their grenade cap badge quite clearly.

 

Super! Thank you for confirming.  There is lots to see!

Edited 6 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Toby Brayley said:

 

Super! Thank you for confirming.  There is lots to see!

Yes, it’s a great snapshot in time.  I think that the officer marching with the Sergeant Major is the signals officer, who appears to have a flag tucked under his left arm. 

[Toby Brayley]

Superb Cabinet Card of a Colour Serjeant of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders . Note the rather angry (unfortunate)  looking badger on his sporran! The badges have been pictured multiple times in this topic, but I thought him too good not to share. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley

[Muerrisch]

Many thanks.

 

SNCO of best shooting company, and fortunately a marksman himself.

 

The badger is in fact past caring.

[Toby Brayley]

Bit of an oddity this one.  

 

Royal Artillery (collar badges and cannon buttons) in India, in a style of frock often seen in India but he has embroidered shoulder straps that say ?AST??? 

[FROGSMILE]

East Yorkshire Artillery Volunteer Corps (1959-1908), Toby.  They were coastal artillery and so manned forts watching out to sea there.  A similar Norfolk style jacket was adopted by artillery officers for a period. With its easy access pockets it was an early form of field/combat jacket.  It was a type of frock for the men of course and dates to the late 1880s.  In full dress a 9-button tunic with red facings and cord loops was worn, with officers lace, and all ranks helmet furniture, in silver.

 

Edited 13 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Not in India then!

 

I don't recall seeing this garment style in India.

[FROGSMILE]

This shows the officers' pattern of the Norfolk style patrol jacket.  The photo was probably taken in barracks and then using a photoshop style process the officers and the gun cut out and overlaid on an artwork depicting field conditions.

 

Edited 13 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Thank you both, that would certainly fit with the title, but usually there is a V on the odd Artilerry styles. What has misled me is  that location on the card is India (not that means much!) and he has a CG chevron, not usually associated with the VF.  

Edited 13 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley

[Muerrisch]

Oh! Didn't see the GCB. 

Oh! indeed.

 

Any idea of date please?

Edited 13 March , 2020 by Muerrisch
addendum

[FROGSMILE]

36 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said:

Thank you both, that would certainly fit with the title, but usually there is a V on the odd Artilerry styles. What has misled me is  that location on the card is India (not that means much!) and he has a CG chevron, not usually associated with the VF.  

 

Well the India mark is incontrovertible, which begs the question....

You also make a good point about the absence of a ‘V’.  The first four letters on the shoulder strap definitely spell out EAST, but then follow on with more letters.  Might it be EASTERN in a curve?  We need to establish the nomenclature of the artillery divisions in India at that time.

[Muerrisch]

Any idea re. the date? Chevron suggests post 1881 which would agree well with jacket/ frock style. Of course we cannot be certain of jacket colour. And could grenade be RE. More questions than answers.

The stick, rather than whip, suggests foot duty. Haircut looks late 1890s.

Edited 13 March , 2020 by Muerrisch

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

Any idea re. the date? Chevron suggests post 1881 which would agree well with jacket/ frock style. Of course we cannot be certain of jacket colour. And could grenade be RE. More questions than answers.

The stick, rather than whip, suggests foot duty. Haircut looks late 1890s.

The RE did not adopt the grenade collar badge for ORs and arm badge for SNCOs until 1881 (although RE officers had a bullion grenade identical to RA). So, with the grenade we see here and the typically framed collar with piping, I definitely think it’s RA and that style of frock is dark blue.  I think he’s garrison or mountain artillery, both dismounted corps, that both had units in India.  I’d guesstimate a date around 1888.

 

No. 3 Eastern Division RGA

2nd Battery - Delhi
4th Battery - Kirkee
7th Battery - Rawalpindi 
9th Battery - Ferozepore

 

https://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/documents/carl/nafziger/888CAD.pdf

Edited 14 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

Frogsmile: thank you for doing the hard yards ........ and Toby for putting up such a difficult enigma.

 

Case provisionally closed!

[Toby Brayley]

Superb, thank you all again. I would agree that it says Eastern. This one can certainly go into my rarest of cards. 

[Toby Brayley]

Unsent postcard, 1st Volunteer Battalion DCLI c1907.  CORNWALL 1 V , crossed rifles, lozenge and efficiency star.

 

 

[Dragoon]

19 minutes ago, Toby Brayley said:

Unsent postcard, 1st Volunteer Battalion DCLI c1907.  CORNWALL 1 V , crossed rifles, lozenge and efficiency star.

 

 

Great photo, lovely to see the DCLI Volunteer cap badge so clearly.

Thank you for sharing

 

Chris 

Quote

 

 

Edited 17 March , 2020 by Dragoon

[Muerrisch]

Toby thank you.The sergeant on the right has a 4 point proficiency star that is easily mistaken for a colour sergeant crown.

[FROGSMILE]

They are still wearing the old Rifle Volunteers pattern (black leather) belts with their snake buckles, rather than the 1903 Bandolier equipment that was issued to some other TF units.

Edited 17 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Toby Brayley]

Pioneer Sergeant, with crossed axes and flaming grenade, of the Royal Fusiliers wearing his 1st Class Tunic as a form of Mess Dress. The tunic is the post 1902 and pre 1905 variant. 

 

A very unusual unsent postcard. 

Edited 18 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley

[Sepoy]

9 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

Pioneer Sergeant, with crossed axes and flaming grenade, of the Royal Fusiliers wearing his 1st Class Tunic as a form of Mess Dress. The tunic is the post 1902 and pre 1905 variant. 

 

A very unusual unsent postcard. 

Great photograph of the tunic - in fact a lovely Family group photo.
Poor chap looks absolutely shattered after getting no sleep because of the baby!

[Dave1418]

Shattered after an exceptionally good mess event

[Muerrisch]

The eyes do not, however, look like p1ss-holes in snow.

 

Mine did more than once. Survivors' breakfast of salmon, scrambled eggs and Buck's Fizz helped.