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Remembered Today:

Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.


Toby Brayley

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36 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Has someone got a picture of the Special Service Section badge please?  YES I WILL DIG ONE OUT AND POST

Was this badge just for the Submarine miners RE or were there other units. NO, SSS UNDERTOOK XTRA OBLIGATION IN NATIONAL EMERGENCY, AVBL ALL VF

Also, were there Regular Sub miners or were they all Volunteers or Militia? NO REGULARS AS FAR AS I KNOW

Finally, the grenade badge was this the standard grenade badge that the Sgt's wore above the stripes? YES, IN SILVER

Thank you in advance, fascinating photo and unit.

Cheers

Chris

 

 

Thank you for answering my questions.

Greatly appreciated.

I look forward to seeing a picture of the SSS badge.

I also look forward to the findings of the mystery badge!.

Cheers

Chris 

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to be going on with ..... there was  a tiny letter s in each curl of the big S. A  version also existed.

 

 

Royal Sussex NCOs 2.jpg

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In colour, although a reproduction.

9E4D0678-8286-4B96-8EFE-6CEB6C9374EA.jpeg

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Thank you chaps!

Greatly appreciated.

Was it just in bullion or was there a worsted version?

I've been googling like mad with regard to the other badge.

Nothing!

 

Chris

Edited by Dragoon
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3 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

I believe a worsted version was issued otherwise we would have technicolour on SD.

Will sniff around.

True,

Thank you for your help.

 

Chris

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 CDVS of Durham Light Infantry types including a pioneer, all  taken in the same studio in Mhow "Central India". I have just noticed its the same chair in two of them!

 

836009261_DurhamLIMhowIndia.jpg.e13e33bdf2773b1e5fbe24dde48dfcf0.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Toby Brayley
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106253087_2593491614225324_1781146584777660378_o.jpg.5246f583804e5e40d954b0a8368413b6.jpg797503978_DLIPioneerIndia2..jpg.16028aa1f9a2bc279c9517c1c2f37752.jpg

1008734707_DLIPioneerIndia3..jpg.544c15de3e9686a303254b9637c010be.jpg

106409592_2600878690153283_6011913383527683348_o.jpg.dc9ff55acf34748e30924e31e36b42df.jpg

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Jam pot cuff tunics in India. An example of getting some wear out of the last Home issue. These two may have been part of the most recent draft to arrive, getting their CDVs done to send home from the mysterious East.

On the other hand these are experienced 6 years minimum soldiers, whereas drafts tended to be last year's recruits.

As ever, there is a story here.

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15 hours ago, Dragoon said:

Thank you chaps!

Greatly appreciated.

Was it just in bullion or was there a worsted version?

I've been googling like mad with regard to the other badge.

Nothing!

 

Chris

The badges were produced in different colours depending on uniform and facings colours - 

post-2272-125240623601~2.jpg

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16 minutes ago, GWFID said:

The badges were produced in different colours depending on uniform and facings colours - 

post-2272-125240623601~2.jpg

Thank you

That's a lot of variations then!

Your help is appreciated .

Chris 

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5 hours ago, Toby Brayley said:

 CDVS of Durham Light Infantry types including a pioneer, all  taken in the same studio in Mhow "Central India". I have just noticed its the same chair in two of them!

 


They are all 2nd Battalion, who were at Mhow (and associated outstations) between 1892 and 1896.  The battalion had previously been the HEIC’s 2nd Bombay Light Infantry and so had a long association with India, coming into the British Imperial service in September 1862 as the 106th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Light Infantry).  They became 2nd Batt DLI in July 1881.

C4C82A56-34A6-4D3B-B8FB-C55A6D931832.jpeg

2E537A81-2AA7-4F4A-AAF8-66F03224F5DE.jpeg

E93832F3-0B1F-40A1-BC41-78D8F8DFB2CD.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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2 hours ago, Dragoon said:

Thank you

That's a lot of variations then!

Your help is appreciated .

Chris 

In fact the SSS pre-dates the TF, being a VF section, with badge, at least as early as 1901 and, I believe, 1896.image.png.4da12e0a559844317c11ac7fa3b67366.png

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My candidate for the mystery badge has withdrawn ........ just does not cut the mustard. Not Brigade Supply Depot.

Another possibility is a locally produced prize badge, but the shape  is seriously odd.

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Some background on the SSS badge from Hansard:18 May 1900 vol 83 cc532-6 532
§ [INTRODUCTION.]

§* THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE) We propose to accept the services only of those who desire to offer their services, and in the rules which we shall make in order to give effect to this Bill we intend that it shall be made perfectly clear that any Volunteer who joins what I suppose will be called the Special Service Section of his battalion should be free to leave it and to divest himself of his obligation on giving a reasonable notice to the military authorities. The only other explanatory observation which I will add is this: that we have prepared this Bill in consultation with a number of representative Volunteer officers, and that we have every reason to believe that the measure is one acceptable to the force because it will give them an opportunity of rendering again the very signal service which they have recently rendered, and of rendering it under conditions more convenient to the War Department and to themselves.

 

Para 648 VFR 1901, "Reprinted for provisional use with Corrections and Amendments up to the 31st July 1904."

says that the badge was to be worn on the left cuff.

 

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1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:


They are all 2nd Battalion, who were at Mhow (and associated outstations) between 1892 and 1896.  The battalion had previously been the HEIC’s 2nd Bombay Light Infantry and so had a long association with India, coming into the British Imperial service in September 1862 as the 106th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Light Infantry).  They became 2nd Batt DLI in July 1881.

C4C82A56-34A6-4D3B-B8FB-C55A6D931832.jpeg

2E537A81-2AA7-4F4A-AAF8-66F03224F5DE.jpeg

E93832F3-0B1F-40A1-BC41-78D8F8DFB2CD.jpeg

Is the badge shown on the helmet in the photo that white metal badge or the large, brass DLI badge with vertical brooch fitting?

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1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

My candidate for the mystery badge has withdrawn ........ just does not cut the mustard. Not Brigade Supply Depot.

Another possibility is a locally produced prize badge, but the shape  is seriously odd.


I have been very intrigued by what the badge might possibly be, as I’ve detected at least four of the men in the photo apparently wearing the badge on their left lower sleeve.  On reflection I think that it probably relates to one of three things:

 

1.  The emblem adopted as the symbol of RE Submarine Mining (this was an upright fist clutching two outspread wings from all of which emanated pointed rays upwards.

 

2.  A searchlight emblem of unknown form.

 

3.  An early adoption of the RN divers badge for men perhaps trained to dive in connection with their submarine mining duties (interestingly the RE adopted the RN divers badge pro tem when a diving role was formalised for them in the BAOR, circa 1960s).

 

The first submarine mining company Royal Engineers, 4th Company, formed in 1871. Two years later a submarine mining school was established in the retired ship HMS Hood moored at Chatham. The Sappers concerned received five months’ general instruction and another 34 days of practical instruction on how to connect up, embark, sling, lay out and raise mines. They prepared multiple and group cables, buoys, moorings, and junction boxes, all in an effort to become fully initiated in the field of submarine mining.

 

Later on high power searchlights became part of the defences and these too initially required RE operators (much later, before WW2, the role was transferred to the RA).

 

Minefields, controlled by army personnel and confining ships to narrow channels in time of war, had never been popular with the Royal Navy, and eventually the Admiralty won control of minefields from the Army and the transfer began in 1904, with final transfer and disbandment of regular and auxiliary RE Submarine Mining units completed in 1906.


I enclose images of the Submarine Mining Service and RN divers.  No badge in the form of a searchlight has been found.

00744896-A4FA-48D1-B8C0-1D21B8156933.jpeg

0E34EC51-AEC5-429A-8D21-015940D1A1F1.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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2 minutes ago, GWFID said:

Is the badge shown on the helmet in the photo that white metal badge or the large, brass DLI badge with vertical brooch fitting?


I think it’s the larger badge that you describe.

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1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

In fact the SSS pre-dates the TF, being a VF section, with badge, at least as early as 1901 and, I believe, 1896.image.png.4da12e0a559844317c11ac7fa3b67366.png

Superb information, thank you very much for your help and time on this one, greatly appreciated.

Chris 

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Nice RPPC sepoy.  Appear to be a pair of signal flags he is holding in his left hand.

 

 

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