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Toby Brayley

Pre-War Cloth Shoulder Titles, Rank and Insignia photos.

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Toby Brayley

Hello,

Thought that these images maybe of interest to some of the members of the forum. The seldom seen, pre 1908 cloth shoulder titles. The last picture I posted of these generated much interest, so I thought I would share some more images. It would be nice to see further examples.

Enjoy.

Toby

10th Royal Hussars on route to India c1902 (XRH)

XRH_2.jpg

RFA (?) c1902-1904. The only picture in the archive depicting the 11th Hussars with "Brodrick caps" (or "Forage Cap, Universal). In the full picture nearly every-man from a mix of Regiments is wearing one.

11H.jpg

11th Hussars. 1904 on the Curragh with the MLE.

10838137_649198781856011_248599327956325

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Toby Brayley

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lettman

Wonderful photo of the 13th Hussar, Toby -- thanks for posting it. What would the colours of the title be? I presume the piping on the shoulder strap is yellow?

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Toby Brayley

Not a problem, I am glad others can get enjoyment from it. The titles are blue on yellow, the detachable shoulder straps do indeed have yellow piping. Sadly I have not seen a real pair!

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lettman

Cheers, Toby. That grey scale can be deceptive -- you could easily think it was yellow lettering on blue.

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Toby Brayley

I just love this era, here are the colours of the Cloth STs.

Cavalry = blue letters on yellow 
Royal Artillery = scarlet on blue
Royal Engineers = blue on scarlet  
Infantry = white on scarlet
Army Service Corps = blue on white 
Royal Army Medical Corps = red on white 
Army Ordance Corps = scarlet on white 

Edited by Toby Brayley

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lettman

Thanks for this, Toby -- very useful. I'd love to have some khaki items from this period but only have a few of the full-coloured dress tunics of the immediate pre-WW1 variety.

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Muerrisch

The shoulder strap piping looks very different colour from the body of the title though? Can they both be yellow [yes I know about ortho film but ...........]

Whoops sorry cannot edit the chunk below.

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Toby Brayley

it does doesn't it, you would think it would be darker to match that of the title. As far as I was aware though the piping was yellow, I might be wrong!

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Toby Brayley

Here is a lovely sealed pattern example (of the jacket and various available insignia) from the IWM! Note the "shoulder strap".

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30094285

3_2.jpg

2_1.jpg

Edited by Toby Brayley

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tocemma

There's a possibility the title shown could have been yellow on khaki. I obtained this damaged example from one of the many sample cards that became available when the old Hobson's works closed down about twenty + years ago. Shame really lots of interesting items scattered to the four winds.

post-7141-0-79068000-1460567313_thumb.jp

Here is a pair of straps I had in my collection at one time, and now owned by another member of the forum. The red central stripes might signify AOC, but I believe that they are cherry red and more likely to be RAMC. Either way they serve as examples.

Sadly there was moth damage to most of the items from that source most likely due to poor storage down the years .

post-7141-0-55763500-1460568268_thumb.jp

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Toby Brayley

That's very interesting! I assume it's a yellow thread rather than printed? Thank you for sharing.

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tocemma
Also a rear view showing how these attached via a loop and button, like the early German straps.


post-7141-0-16311400-1460568712_thumb.jp


In the case of the plain shoulder strap and the 7th Hussars title, I have digitally 'repaired' them to make them easier on the eye! The pair luckily only had one small moth hole. These may be of interest. The last pair (the ASC ones) were later replacements on a very early serge jacket of the type with the twisted cord shoulder straps. After owning the jacket for some years I found a very badly damaged jacket which luckily still retained the twisted cords. I 'reverse engineered' the jacket to its original form, and in the process removed the ASC straps which were in any case of mismatched material and just tacked on.

I include these for completeness and to show what was done at the time to update the earlier jacket styles.


post-7141-0-19789400-1460568734_thumb.jp



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tocemma
A plain strap which followed again with the rear loop fastening. On this example it is just possible to make out an impression where the brass letters 'CG' Coldstream Guards were worn. This one was especially badly mothed!
post-7141-0-30449700-1460568994_thumb.jp
post-7141-0-38805200-1460569009_thumb.jp
Note the printed WD 2 on the earlier strap and the number 3 faintly visible on this one.

Lastly, a photo which shows the twisted cord straps still in use as late as December 1914. The elderly chap in the centre foreground, very likely a reservist, still has them on his jacket. I think these chaps were 7th Londons, 'Shiny Seventh' Sorry for the low resolution scan on this one, I'll dig out the original and scan the chap in the middle again.
post-7141-0-68799300-1460569181_thumb.jp
Regards
Tocemma

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Toby Brayley

Brilliant thank you! do you still have the the jacket?

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GWF1967

"Bert" 4th Lincolnshire TF.

Bert and the Drum Major. 4th Lincs TF. at Loughborough.

post-119457-0-72782600-1460621731_thumb.

post-119457-0-57348600-1460621843_thumb.

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GWF1967

Royal Engineers.

R.E. cookhouse duty.

post-119457-0-28634200-1460622197_thumb.

post-119457-0-83429000-1460622295_thumb.

post-119457-0-13313900-1460622310_thumb.

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Toby Brayley

very nice is that Royal Engineers with a T underneath?

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GWF1967

very nice is that Royal Engineers with a T underneath?

From memory yes. They have a mix of cloth and brass titles I'll have a look later and hopefully post a clearer image.

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wainfleet

I may be wrong but I think that cloth title is "Signal Service / T".

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GWF1967

I may be wrong but I think that cloth title is "Signal Service / T".

I think you may well be right.

Edit. The points go to Wainfleet. Cloth titles are Signal Service. T. The man in the middle of the picture in the goggles and gaiters is wearing brass titles. RE. T. Signal Service.

I think the goggles are for onion peeling once the spuds are done.

post-119457-0-19350600-1460706180_thumb.

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Toby Brayley

cracking group shot in Dublin. Brodricks and RFA cloth shoulder titles. So much going on in the picture!

img479.jpg

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Toby Brayley

XI%20red.jpg

Unusual embroidered? titles on this 11th Hussars chap. Never come across any like this before.

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rob carman

This image was scanned from Storey NR. 1997. The Royal Norfolk Regiment. Sutton Publishing Ltd, Stroud. p. 38. The caption says: Men of the newly formed 5th Bn TF on camp at Hunstanton about 1908………..some volunteers still have their old scarlet tunics bearing volunteer insignia, while some have a suit of khaki…..with red and white cloth regimental titles worn on the shoulder below the shoulder strap and the cloth battalion number appearing below that. Some wear the new service dress with shoulder straps, while others have the old detachable shoulder cord piped with red infantry arm-of-service colour.”

Rob.

post-202-0-11482800-1463015543_thumb.jpg

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Toby Brayley

some cracking haircuts amongst them!

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