I need your help again lads and lassies.

[museumtom]

I see your point Matlock but I prefer not to change horses in near the end of the race old chum.

I am still diggin trying to find this lad, can you help with him also please?

Flynn    John        One of the unfindable sailors who died after discharge. After extensive searches there is no record of his Naval service.    Saleen, County Cork    07/12/1919    Died after discharge from the navy at Saleen, County Cork from Arteris-Sclorosis Cerebral Embolism certified. Elizabeth Flynn, Saleen, County Cork was present at death.    Unknown
Serial No:
Unit:
Age: 45
 

[Matlock1418]

41 minutes ago, museumtom said:

I see your point Matlock but I prefer not to change horses in near the end of the race old chum.

Fair point - it is always hard to break up a long-term relationship!  All that wrangling about the CDs etc. 

41 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Flynn    John        One of the unfindable sailors who died after discharge. After extensive searches there is no record of his Naval service.    Saleen, County Cork    07/12/1919    Died after discharge from the navy at Saleen, County Cork from Arteris-Sclorosis Cerebral Embolism certified. Elizabeth Flynn, Saleen, County Cork was present at death.    Unknown
Serial No:
Unit:
Age: 45

Sailors - not my first choice for researching!  But as they say "Don't knock it until you have tried"!!  And such a unique name in Ireland!!!

Well I have found this which at least gives you a number to pursue:

John FLYNN, 156573, Royal Navy - Saleen - Died 7.12.19

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

There is also an earlier related unspecified disability card showing he got 5/6 pw for 13 weeks - discharged 7.10.19 - File destroyed 10.5.27 [why did they insist on doing that? - So irritating now!!]

M

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Matlock1418

[museumtom]

Brilliant find, thank you Matlock, I like the thing you did about the CD's, so true. Now I have his number I can get his records, thank you kindly. 

The lad below is right up your street, I can see the hackles being raised on the back of your neck, go for it Matlock!

Frohlich    Francis    Private    Royal Munster Fusiliers    18 Goldsmiths Avenue, Cork, In the 1911 Census in 10 Penrose Square, Cork, later at 67 Grand Parade, Cork. Last address was 16 North Main Street, Cork. They had 4 children in 1919. All were born in Cork, Frederick, 1902 (died in 1915 from cerebral tumour), Nora Elizabeth, 1904, Ellen Augustine, 1905, and Anne Christina, 1910.    20/09/1919    Died after discharge ( demobbed 19/05/1919) at the Central Military Hospital, Cork, from carcinoma of larynx exhaustion certified.    Cork (St Joseph’s) Cemetery, Cork.
Serial No: 5 6092
Unit: 2nd Battalion
Age: 49
Born: Down Street, Macroom, County Cork on 03/10/1870.
Enlisted: Cork on 09/08/1914
Next of Kin: Son of Rachel (records), Cappoquin, County Waterford. Son of Henry (marriage cert), Sergeant, West Cork Artillery(spelled Frolich-Francis's birth cert)and Catherine (nee O'Sullivan-Francis's birth cert)Baker, Ruthmore Buildings, Cork. Married Mary Ellen (died aged 81, in 1950, while living at Boreenmanna Road, Cork, fromcardio respiratory failure 4 days senile decay 6 months certified, her daughter Ellen Donovan was present at death)Fane, daughter of James Fane, Rathmore Buildings, Cork, at st Patrick's Church, Cork City, on 18/01/1890.
Grave or Memorial: P.G.
Notes: In his records the doctors are surprised he was discharged/demobbed as fit and asked for a re-examination, sadly the re-examination sheets did not survive. If the re-examination sheet can be found he may qualify for inclusion in the Commonwealth war Graves Commission. Occupation on enlistment-baker. Formerly served (serving in India, and South Africa. Discharged time expired 23/02/1904), in the Boer war with the R.D.F. under service number 4372.

[Matlock1418]

John FLYNN, 156573, Royal Navy - Saleen

Another pension card show he got a pension for Epilepsy - But considered Non-attrib. or is that Now Attrib?

Not sure how well that will work for you/IFCP/CWGC??  Not looking particularly good.

The probability is that it was likely linked but whether enough for commemoration I have to leave to others = ??? = I suspect not going to fly.

M

 

 

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Matlock1418
remove previous and then add correct image

[museumtom]

We are singing from the same hymn sheet Matlock, I emailed Terry and asked him.

Edited 5 July , 2022 by museumtom

[museumtom]

Terry says no.

[Matlock1418]

17 minutes ago, museumtom said:

We are singong from the same hymn sheet Matlock, I emailed Terry and asked him.

Tom, we crossed!

Note my recent edit and query - the image is up for you to see for yourself

I'm not particularly confident - though it does look like his widow got a pension.

But you know what CWGC say about the MoP ...

12 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Terry says no.

Probably the right call knowing CWGC - just not strong enough at present

M

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo - again!

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, museumtom said:

Frohlich    Francis    Private    Royal Munster Fusiliers    18 Goldsmiths Avenue, Cork, In the 1911 Census in 10 Penrose Square, Cork, later at 67 Grand Parade, Cork. Last address was 16 North Main Street, Cork. They had 4 children in 1919. All were born in Cork, Frederick, 1902 (died in 1915 from cerebral tumour), Nora Elizabeth, 1904, Ellen Augustine, 1905, and Anne Christina, 1910.    20/09/1919    Died after discharge ( demobbed 19/05/1919) at the Central Military Hospital, Cork, from carcinoma of larynx exhaustion certified.    Cork (St Joseph’s) Cemetery, Cork.
Serial No: 5 6092

Francis FROHLICH, 6062, Royal Munster Fusiliers

Couple of cards for a dependant's claim and award paid seems probable - but no mention of his cause of death.  Mother, Mary Ellen FROHLICH, at 67 Grand Parade, Cork

An unidentified child seems to have gone to [perhaps a guardian/possibly a relative??]: Miss May DESMOND, 11210 Tuckahoe Ave, New York, USA

Edit: Under FROHLICK = Miss May DESMOND is recorded as Guardian of child - and card also refers to Mary Ellen FROHLICK and both those addresses above for them.

A £5 grant was paid [for funeral expenses - typically that is £5 + £1 + £1 + £1 = three children @ £1]

Only thing is that the MoP had a couple of other surname variants FROHLICK and FROLICH [which were struck-through/corrected] - as it seems a rather unusual name for Ireland [well seems that way to me] perhaps worth trawling using the other variants too.   Perhaps ... ???

M

Further edit: he has another pension card at WFA/Fold3 as Frank FROHLICK - not an unsurprising alternative forename but worth looking out for when searching.

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Matlock1418
edit & further edit

[museumtom]

Good man thank you Matlock. Frohlich is not a common Irish name, in fact it is the only one in the database. Its variant are duly noted, thank you Matlock.

Have the night off old thing. I have you worked to a frazzle.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Matlock1418]

37 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Have the night off old thing. I have you worked to a frazzle.

Thank you.  The necessary sorting of CDs was becoming imminent 

Not least because most/nearly every named card I look at for you [and quite a few others too] needs a transcription/tagging addition and/or correction!!! 

Fold3 is living up to Ancestry when it comes to poor/challenging/interesting transcriptions/tags [down to who they get to transcribe - no knowledge of subject or geography and english seems unlikely to be their first language] - I even wish I got that overseas rate that they pay, even that would be better than just a good glow of righteousness - my halo may choke me yet! 

M

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Mark1959]

There is apparently is an Obit for Francis Frohlich in the Cork Examiner 23-9-1919. Not on the BNA. It maybe just a Death Notice of course

Edited 5 July , 2022 by Mark1959

[museumtom]

Thank you Matlock. I see the same in FMP, where St Annes is in some English county but it does not add that it is in other Irish counties. It makes research difficult.

 

On the ball mark!, thank you.

[museumtom]

Good morning all. First one out of the bag this morning is Patrick Gorman, possibly under O'Gorman. I cannot find anything on him in FMP. He may not qualify for includion but I would like to add his details, can you help please?

Gorman    Patrick        One of the unfindable soldiers who died after discharge. After extensive searches there is no record of his military service.    Tiernaclea Lower, Tarbert, County Kerry    07/07/1919    Died after discharge at his home, Tiernaclea Lower, Tarbert, County Kerry from Lobar Pneumonia (Bilateral) 12 days Toxaemia certified. His father Patrick Gorman was present at death.    
Serial No:
Unit:
Age: 21
Born: Kilpadogue, Listowel, County Kerry on 07/02/1898.
Enlisted:
Next of Kin: Listed aged 14 in the 1911 Census at Tiernaclea Lower, Tarbert, County Kerry with his family including his parents Patrick and Bridget (late Liston, nee Kennelly) Gorman.

[museumtom]

There is a possibly this lad may qualify but I cannot find him, can you help please?

Gregory    Henry       A single man.  Age 25. One of the unfindable soldiers who died after discharge. Death registered at Dublin. After extensive searches there is no record of his military service.    34 Francis Street, Dublin    08/04/1919    Died after discharge at the Hospice, Harolds Cross, Dublin, from Phthisis 2 years certified.    Glasnevin (or Prospect) Cemetery, Dublin.
Serial No:
Unit:
Age: 55

Edited 6 July , 2022 by museumtom

[museumtom]

Nope I cannot find anything on this lad, cane you also help with this one please? Died at 4 St Johns Avenue, Limerick. His daughter was present at death. Sergeant, R.M.F., aged 53.

Possibly.

 

[Mark1959]

A James Guerin born Newton-le-Willows. Possible

12 years South Lancs and enlisted into KLR in 1900 in Dublin in 1900 and had S Lancs service added. KLR Discharged 1908 as Sgt having "reached the age of 41. Wife's name and maiden name on docs is correct as is date of marriage within one day. 6877. So one assumes re-enlisted if in RMF. Docs for KLR servic on fold3

edit

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007264100%2F02492&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F7264100%2F204%2F2492 suggests this man died in 1943. So cannot be him. Also no Maude showing as daughter This suggests that the 1901 marriage above is not the RMF man 

So this James Guerin must be discounted

 

Edited 6 July , 2022 by Mark1959

[museumtom]

Thank you Mark, he is going to be a hard one, as all these ones are.

 Thank you for looking.

Kind regards.

Tom.

[Mark1959]

His widow was Margaret it appears

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014922/005014922_00359.pdf middle top

Seem to be able to exclude all RMF James Guerin's except one, 2685. However, I can only find a Pension Card with Name and number and nothing else

Edited 6 July , 2022 by Mark1959

[museumtom]

Thank you kindly Mark, that is one more piece of the puzzle.

[Mark1959]

Was Henry Gregory 25 or 55 on his DC?

[museumtom]

55 Mark. Well that what it says, it could be wrong?

[museumtom]

Glasnevin Cemetery agrees it is 55.

[museumtom]

Moving along. I reckon this lad has a real chance, can you also help with this one please.

I reckon this lad might just have a chance if the critical sheet could be found. Can you also help with this one please? It does not look like folder3 will be of help unless there are more than one?

Hanrahan    Joseph    Pioneer    Royal Engineers    19 Meath Street    01/10/1919    Death certificate-died after discharge at Dublin Union Workhouse from Cerebral Decay ( pension card says died from Morbus Cordis) 4 months Cardiac Failure certified. Discharged 14/12/1918 no longer physically fit for war service-sickness.    Unknown
Serial No: WR353844
Unit: Inland Waterways and Docks
Age: 38
Born:
Enlisted: 30/08/1917
Next of Kin: A single man. Son of James Hanrahan, labourer. Brother of Christina (nee Hanrahan, married 01/02/1913 at St Pauls, Dublin) Nangle, 19 Meath Street, Dublin.
Grave or Memorial:
Notes: Awarded Silver War Badge number B179311 on 26/04/1919. Did not serve overseas. Age on death cert-38, aged in Silver War Badge sheet on discharge-47.

[PaulC78]

This is your guy, I've found four pension cards but nothing particuarly useful, no disability stated and no service papers. If the cause of death was "cardiac failure" then I'd say he was a non-starter, Terry has dismissed such cases in the past as being too vague.

[PaulC78]

3 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Seem to be able to exclude all RMF James Guerin's except one, 2685. However, I can only find a Pension Card with Name and number and nothing else

We can rule out James Guerin 599, one of his pension cards says he was RMF but it looks like he was actually Royal Irish Rifles. He died on 28 April 1922 in any case, DC registered as "Gearon".

Mark seems to have found your man though, I found two more pension cards under the name "Guerins". There are some pre-war service papers on FMP but I can't see anything regarding service in WW1.