Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

I’m under the impression that the majority of these East Yorkshire Regiment postcards that I have were taken in c.1907 at the Regimental Depot, Beverley and feature youthful new recruits.

Therefore would these soldiers be serving/training with the Depot or 3rd Battalion prior to a home posting with the 1st Battalion at Shorncliffe or overseas draft to the 2nd Battalion at Maymyo, Burma? 
 

That’s a good point and the suggested date does seem entirely likely.  Both men appear to be wearing the earlier pattern of jacket with twisted shoulder cords that we noted previously.

If regulars or militiamen undergoing the relatively short pre war basic training at the regimental depot, I cannot see any point as to why they would be training on bicycles that were very much a specialism of the TF (and previously VF, from whom they had inherited the role).  That said, it is as you’ve pointed out a photo at the regimental depot, and I’m assuming that the ‘transport duties’ course was run centrally by the ASC at Aldershot, unless such courses were run regimentally, as many others still were at that time.  It’s a bit of a conundrum as things stand. 

Edited 15 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

Private Sidney P Dharty 8517, PC produced by a photographic studio in Bridlington. 
Enlisted May 1907.

1st Good Conduct Badge Jan10, 2nd Jun12. 
Mounted Infantry course at Longmoor - Qualified 04Feb13.

Discharged to Army Reserve 15May14.

MiC date of entry 08Sep14 (with 1st Battalion).

Wounded with 2nd Battalion during German attack on ‘International Trench’, North of Ypres-Comines Canal 04/05Feb15.

Killed in Action with 2nd Battalion 07May15 and commemorated Menin Gate Memorial. 

 

Edited 15 January , 2023 by mrfrank

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Private Sidney P Dharty 8517, PC produced by a photographic studio in Bridlington. 
Enlisted May 1907.

1st Good Conduct Badge Jan10, 2nd Jun12. 
Mounted Infantry course at Longmoor - Qualified 04Feb13.

Discharged to Army Reserve 15May14.

MiC date of entry 08Sep14 (with 1st Battalion).

Wounded with 2nd Battalion 04/05Feb15.

Killed in Action with 2nd Battalion 15May15 and commemorated Menin Gate Memorial. 

 

What a superb photo of Home Service full dress for an English (or Welsh) regiment without Royal appellation.  His collar badge was the rather attractive East Yorks star badge with white rose centre. 

[GWF1967]

On Monday BBC2 showed an episode of Flog It, from November 2015, filmed at the former Promenade Station, Morecambe. One item caught my attention; two albums containing a collection of 472 WW1 postcards. The seller said they were found in the cellar of a house when it was purchased by her parents in 1971. 
 My interest was raised  further when the seller said they were all sent home by a man named Gordon Atkinson, at that moment a postcard from my collection appeared on screen. The albums sold for £150.

 A month or so later (Jan 2016) the postcards appeared for sale on ebay. I know at least two other forum members purchased parts of the collection and have previously posted some of them in “postcards”.   @Drew-1918 - @Toby Brayley . After almost 100 years it seemed a shame the collection was broken up for profit. 
Gordon Henry Atkinson (Front row, left) served as L/Cpl. 62122, with 9th Divisional Signal Coy. R.E. 

Seated.

Edited 15 January , 2023 by GWF1967

[Drew-1918]

Very interesting, thanks for posting. 

I suppose the fact that there is a Great War Forum has in some way served to bring the photos back together again. In the future, it could also mean that the actual photos start to come back together. You never know. 

Cheers,

Chris

Edited 15 January , 2023 by Drew-1918

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, Drew-1918 said:

Very interesting, thanks for posting. 

I suppose the fact that there is a Great War Forum has in some way served to bring the photos back together again. In the future, it could also mean that the actual photos start to come back together. You never know. 

Cheers,

Chris

Perhaps they could reunite in this thread electronically.  That would be really something.  A win win achievement.  They would potentially be reunited forever, and they could be enjoyed by a community of enthusiasts who all share an interest.

[Raster Scanning]

Lt Col D.J. Mason-MacFarlane. C.O. 4th Seaforth Highlanders, at Bedford 1915

[Raster Scanning]

5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders at Bedford early 1915, wearing their private purchase slouch caps.

[Raster Scanning]

I believe these men to be POW's. No further information I am afraid, but would appreciate some nationalities based on uniform please.

[6RRF]

1 hour ago, Raster Scanning said:

5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders at Bedford early 1915, wearing their private purchase slouch caps.

Those are fascinating. Look as though they are stitched from cloth and presumably offered as more practical than glengarrys. 20 years ahead of their time. Do you have any more information.

[Raster Scanning]

48 minutes ago, 6RRF said:

Those are fascinating. Look as though they are stitched from cloth and presumably offered as more practical than glengarrys. 20 years ahead of their time. Do you have any more information.

There is a thread here and I remember a thread from the very early days of the Forum but I cannot now find it.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Raster Scanning said:

There is a thread here and I remember a thread from the very early days of the Forum but I cannot now find it.

I recall the thread and will try to find it later**.  @4thGordonsand @gordon92will recall it I’m sure.

From memory only I don’t think the hats were private purchase, but a war department trial item, but I’m not 100% positive.  Ironically an almost identical hat was also part of a trial uniform competing with battle dress (BD) as a proposed design circa mid-1930s.

**here is the thread, circa 2011: 

 

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[6RRF]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I recall the thread and will try to find it later**.  @4thGordonsand @gordon92will recall it I’m sure.

From memory only I don’t think the hats were private purchase, but a war department trial item, but I’m not 100% positive.  Ironically an almost identical hat was also part of a trial uniform competing with battle dress (BD) as a proposed design circa 1936.

**here is the thread, circa 2011: 

 

Thanks to you both for posting this thread - fascinating stuff

[FROGSMILE]

14 minutes ago, 6RRF said:

Thanks to you both for posting this thread - fascinating stuff

Here’s another thread on the same subject (the forums been going long enough that it’s quite rare for something not to have been discussed previously):  Unfortunately almost all the links to images no longer work leaving only those posted directly within the forum.

Interestingly, back in 2014 forum member @T8HANTSposted a photo of what appears to be a very similar hat being worn by a TF unit in 1914 (see below). 

 

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Shiny]

I've just been given a box of photos and paperwork including this one of a relative, Pte Alfred George Wiles. He was batman to a Captain who was transport officer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers.

If anyone can tell anything from his uniform I'd love to hear it.

Michael

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, Shiny said:

I've just been given a box of photos and paperwork including this one of a relative, Pte Alfred George Wiles. He was batman to a Captain who was transport officer in the Royal Welch Fusiliers.

If anyone can tell anything from his uniform I'd love to hear it.

Michael

At the time the photo was taken he was a soldier in an infantry pioneer battalion, as can be seen by the crossed rifle and pick collar badges he wears.  The Welsh Regiment formed such battalions along with many others, but not RWF.

Pioneer battalions were formed and allocated one per division and had a role to be infantry with semi skilled labouring abilities and especially a focus on swift and efficient trench digging and sandbagging.  As a result quite a large number of former mining areas were utilised to create pioneer battalions of their local regiment.

Unfortunately, no shoulder titles, or cap insignia are visible, so it’s impossible to discern his regiment without a little more information.  The bandolier is unusual for infantry unless members of the battalions transport section, which seems likely to be the situation here.  Transport sections looked after each infantry battalion’s logistic train (wagons, carts and draught animals) plus the field officers horses.  There is a significant cloth badge on his left upper arm that might reveal his exact battalion if we can discover his regiment.

NB. He has a single good conduct badge (inverted stripe) on his left cuff indicating 2-years of blemish free war service as a soldier.  Pre 1916 these were for regular soldiers only, but after the introduction of conscription open to all.

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Shiny]

Thanks a lot Frogsmile, 

Here's another photo out of the box, he is in the middle.

I actually have his medals, original cap badge, collar badges, shoulder titles and an imperial service badge. His number was 8280 and according to the medal roll he was in the 4th Royal Welch Fusiliers. Could it be that the first one with the pioneer collar badges were when he first joined then he's become the batman later in the war?

Michael

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, Shiny said:

Thanks a lot Frogsmile, 

Here's another photo out of the box, he is in the middle.

I actually have his medals, original cap badge, collar badges, shoulder titles and an imperial service badge. His number was 8280 and according to the medal roll he was in the 4th Royal Welch Fusiliers. Could it be that the first one with the pioneer collar badges were when he first joined then he's become the batman later in the war?

Michael

You’re right!  My mistake, I had forgotten that 1/4th (Denbighshire) RWF T.F. were converted to a pioneer battalion.

Going by his bandolier I think it shows that he was a combined batman and groom to an officer of Field Rank.  These were the Majors and above plus the Adjutant (by virtue of his appointment).

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Shiny]

No problem at all, I'm very grateful for any help you can give.

Would the jodhpurs and bandolier fit with being a batman, is there anything that help date either picture?

Michael 

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Shiny said:

No problem at all, I'm very grateful for any help you can give.

Would the jodhpurs and bandolier fit with being a batman, is there anything that help date either picture?

Michael 

Yes his dress plus your information suggests he was a combined batman and groom.  The collar badges were authorised in 1915 and the cloth badges on both upper arms usually from 1916 onward.  All-in-all it suggested a date second half of 1916 through into 1917.  The cloth arm badges will be of interest to @poona guardwho is compiling the details of TF battalions cloth insignia with view to a publication.  He might be able to advise on the colour and dimensions of the cloth arm badge worn by 4 RWF.

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Shiny]

That would be great, thank you very much.

I was wondering about that, it's not something I've seen before.

Michael 

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, Shiny said:

That would be great, thank you very much.

I was wondering about that, it's not something I've seen before.

Michael 

The cloth badges were embraced largely by Kitcheners New Armies, comprised of hostilities only (duration of war) volunteers, and the TF, but less so by the regulars.  Nevertheless, by the end of the war they were very common (almost universal) in infantry divisions. There was a survey at the end of the war to record all the variations and various specialist publications to articulate them.  Forum member David Bilton has published two books explaining the badges of Kitchener units and Regular units, Territorial units will be next, so your photograph will be very useful.

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

4th (Durham Howitzer?) Battery, Royal Field Artillery.

Royal Field Artillery Drivers, "Wittes, Belgium (France?). May 1918".

[Bob Davies]

12 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Field Artillery Drivers, "Wittes, Belgium (France?). May 1918".

Interesting pair of boots standing back left, similar to a previous picture you posted the other day, again back left.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

Interesting pair of boots standing back left, similar to a previous picture you posted the other day, again back left.

You can read interesting threads about the boots (with illustrations) at the following links, Bob:

1.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/275345-boot-identification/#comment-2804522

2.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/278282-these-boots-could-still-pass-parade/#comment-2842138

 

Edited 16 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE