Postcards

[GWF1967]

19 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

He’s apparently present in the image as he asks his wife if she can spot him. 
 

Possibly the chap far right. There appears to be a blue pen mark on his drum, and another above his head. 

[Andrew Upton]

48 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Another East Yorkshire Regiment PC. Postally used (post marked 26th July 1910, Stanhope Lines, Aldershot) by JA ‘Jack’ Davies to his wife, Edith residing in the married quarters at Bordon (151, F Block). He’s apparently present in the image as he asks his wife if she can spot him. 
Had a search on the internet and identified the village as Wrecclesham as found virtually the same image of an other battalion marching past that same spot and onlookers. The Dog & Partridge closed in 1927.

Mike 

Nearest I could get to the same shot on Google Earth:

 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, mrfrank said:

Another East Yorkshire Regiment PC. Postally used (post marked 26th July 1910, Stanhope Lines, Aldershot)

Harts Annual Army List of 1910 shows the 1st Battalion starting the year at Colchester. The 1911 edition has them starting the year at Aldershot.
The 1911 Census of England & Wales has the 1st Battalion in Barracks at Wellington Lines, Aldershot.

A sample crop from the barracks return gives three names of musicians who could well be present.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited.

There is a MiC for a Drummer 8412 William Stein who landed in France with the 1st Battalion on the 8th September 1914. Subsequently a Sergeant, his card is marked "DoW". CWGC shows him as died on the 7th February 1917 and he is buried in the Glasgow Necropolis. Unit is given as 'B' Company, 1st Battalion. He had received the Military Medal. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/666369/william-stein/

No obvious MiC for George Sullivan.

There is a MiC for 9579 Private Thomas Bourne who landed in France with the 1st Battalion on the 8th September 1914. Subsequent a Private 26769 in the West Riding Regiment. Appears to have survived.

Makes you wonder how many of those pictured here would land in France with the 1st Battalion on the same day.

BTW - is the officer wearing the same cap badge - could be a trick of the light but looks a different shape.

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

Harts Annual Army List of 1910 shows the 1st Battalion starting the year at Colchester. The 1911 edition has them starting the year at Aldershot.
The 1911 Census of England & Wales has the 1st Battalion in Barracks at Wellington Lines, Aldershot.

A sample crop from the barracks return gives three names of musicians who could well be present.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited.

There is a MiC for a Drummer 8412 William Stein who landed in France with the 1st Battalion on the 8th September 1914. Subsequently a Sergeant, his card is marked "DoW". CWGC shows him as died on the 7th February 1917 and he is buried in the Glasgow Necropolis. Unit is given as 'B' Company, 1st Battalion. He had received the Military Medal. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/666369/william-stein/

No obvious MiC for George Sullivan.

There is a MiC for 9579 Private Thomas Bourne who landed in France with the 1st Battalion on the 8th September 1914. Subsequent a Private 26769 in the West Riding Regiment. Appears to have survived.

Makes you wonder how many of those pictured here would land in France with the 1st Battalion on the same day.

BTW - is the officer wearing the same cap badge - could be a trick of the light but looks a different shape.

Cheers,
Peter

 

 

Brilliant and fascinating research as per usual Peter.

The officers bronze badge is meant to be the same, but it was given a pointedly crisp outline and finish, plus a slightly wider title scroll. 

Edited 9 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

Thanks for the interesting replies. I was hoping I might be able to identify the officer featured, but after looking at various sources, I’ve not been able to do it unfortunately. 
 

[Raster Scanning]

On 09/01/2023 at 01:33, mrfrank said:

Another East Yorkshire Regiment PC. Postally used (post marked 26th July 1910, Stanhope Lines, Aldershot) by JA ‘Jack’ Davies to his wife, Edith residing in the married quarters at Bordon (151, F Block). He’s apparently present in the image as he asks his wife if she can spot him. 
Had a search on the internet and identified the village as Wrecclesham as found virtually the same image of an other battalion marching past that same spot and onlookers. The Dog & Partridge closed in 1927.

Mike 

A popular spot. Here are the 2nd Bedfords. 

The caption on the back reads as follows "2/Bedf Regt 1905. Route marching at Aldershot. Traill's Company (officers) Cumberlage, Traill, Lemon." They are passing the Dog and Partridge in Wrecclesham a village on the southern outskirts of Farnham in Surrey.

Traill was killed in action on his 49th Birthday, 30th October 1914.

Arthur Lemon served throughout the war and died in 1924.

[Raster Scanning]

Posted here as it seems more appropriate.

[GWF1967]

Royal Field Artillery Driver with Spur and Crossed Whips badges, showing him to be 1st Prize winning driver in his Battery (25A - British Army Proficiency Badges - Denis Edwards and David Langley)

[GWF1967]

Royal Garrison Artillery group. 

  Several men wear good conduct stripes, and signallers trade badges. There is a signal instructor Cpl in the middle of the second row.  The man front row, far left is wearing a private purchase id wrist tag, the man next to him wears a wristwatch, and sports a worsted drivers prize badge of  spur and crossed whips intertwined (2nd/3rd/4th prize. (25A - B.A.P. Badges ). The next man along  wears a 1st prize worsted badge of spur & whips, with crown above (25C - B.A.P. Badges). He also sports a signallers badge, and has split and platted his cap band. 

 The man seated, middle row right, wears a wound stripe and a mourning button. He also wears two overseas service chevrons, dating the photograph to C.1918. 

[Pat Atkins]

Nice image. As so often there are men proudly showing off their badges - the chap standing fourth from left in the middle row, for example, looks pleased with his signallers badge. Good spot of the overseas chevrons, there's another pair on the man seated second from left, second row. What do you think the chickenwire over the hut door behind the group is for?

[GWF1967]

2 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

 Good spot of the overseas chevrons, there's another pair on the man seated second from left, second row. What do you think the chickenwire over the hut door behind the group is for?

Thanks Pat. I missed the second set of O/S chevrons. I'm unsure about the chicken wire, unless it was for letting air in, whilst keeping wildlife out.

[Andrew Upton]

2 hours ago, Pat Atkins said:

...What do you think the chickenwire over the hut door behind the group is for?

There's a well known photo where a similar set-up is being used for soldiers to clean/blanco their webbing.

 

Edited 12 January , 2023 by Andrew Upton

[mrfrank]

Super looking bicycles - Almost certainly taken at Victoria Barracks, Beverley c.1907. 

On the right Pte Harold Pinkney 8434. Left Southampton on HMT Assaye 8th January 1908 with draft for the 2nd Bn in India. Awarded 2nd class Cert of Education Apr09. Served with F Coy and qualified 1st Class Shot Oct09. 2nd good conduct badge Jan12. 
MiC - entered France 15Jan5 and discharged to ‘Z’.

On the left, best candidate is Pte John Foster 8428. Served UK with 1st Bn and underwent course ‘Transport duties’ Aldershot Feb10. MiC - entered France 08Sep14 with D Coy, 1st Bn. Died 31Dec15 (probably of wounds) and buried in Selby Cemetery (native of Selby).

Mike

 

Edited 17 March , 2023 by mrfrank

[GWF1967]

" To Mother.  A Photograph taken outside Battery Office on Xmas Day 1914 at Heliopolis Egypt. With Best Wishes from Father."   

East Lancashire Royal Field Artillery, Territorial Force.

 

Battery Sergeant Major - James Owen Wilkinson.   166 - WOII - 676422.

Bombardier - Walter Davies.   786. - 700151.

Bombardier - George Perkins. M.M.   1213. -  WOII - 701843.  A/210 Bde. 

Bombardier - William Crowe Dunnachie. M.S.M.   1201.   - Sergeant 700431.  210 Bde. 

Edited 12 January , 2023 by GWF1967

[Moonraker]

On 19/05/2016 at 19:15, gordon92 said:

This is a footnote to my earlier post showing the Drums and Pipes of the 11th Battalion Gordon Highlanders taken at home August 1916 at either Lochend or Bridge of Allan. Penciled on the back is the notation "On the right of the big drum are Col. Alford, Pipe Major Gray, Pipe Major Findlater." Pipe Major Findlater is almost certainly the famed Piper George Findlater who won the VC for his actions at Dargai Heights in October 1897 with the 1st Batt Gordon Highlanders. In further researching Findlater, it appears he rejoined the Colours in 1914 becoming Pipe Major of the 9th Gordons then being invalided home in December 1915. The 11th Gordons, a training organization, would be a likely place for a soldier no longer fit for frontline service. His appearance in this image is strikingly similar to a photo of him taken after his VC award. All of this compels me to believe that George Findlater VC is the man sitting in the first row in this postcard with his pipes at his feet. So, this is an exciting find for those of us who are interested in the history of the Gordon Highlanders.

There are quite a few passing references to Findlater in the GWF, and this may be one of the more logical places in which to post this card:

 

After receiving the VC, Findlater supplemented his Army pension by performing at music halls, but after growing outrage from the military establishment, he retired to take up farming in Banffshire in 1899. In 1914, he re-enlisted in the Gordon Highlanders and served as senior piper for the 9th Battalion until the end of 1915, when he returned home because of ill health. The 9th was at Perham Down from February to May 1915 and then at Park House until June. (Both camps were within walking distance of Ludgershall, though Perham Down was the nearest.)

[58 Div Mule]

On 12/01/2023 at 20:26, mrfrank said:

Super looking bicycles - Almost certainly taken at Victoria Barracks, Beverley c.1907. 

On the right Pte Harold Pinkney 8434. Left Southampton on HMT Assaye 8th January 1908 with draft for the 2nd Bn in India. Awarded 2nd class Cert of Education Apr09. Served with F Coy and qualified 1st Class Shot Oct09. 2nd good conduct badge Jan12. 
MiC - entered France 15Jan5 and discharged to ‘Z’.

On the left, best candidate is Pte Henry Foster 8428. Served UK with 1st Bn and underwent course ‘Transport duties’ Aldershot Feb10. MiC - entered France 08Sep14 with D Coy, 1st Bn. Died 31Dec15 (probably of wounds) and buried in Selby Cemetery (native of Selby).

Mike

 

Cracking photo. Strange that their rifle slings pass under the ammunition bandolier. Can’t have been easy to bring the weapon into action quickly?
 

58 DM.

[6RRF]

17 minutes ago, 58 Div Mule said:

Cracking photo. Strange that their rifle slings pass under the ammunition bandolier. Can’t have been easy to bring the weapon into action quickly?
 

58 DM.

It wouldn't be easy on active service, but they're not and so its presumably more important to secure their rifles while moving 

[max7474]

On 12/01/2023 at 20:26, mrfrank said:

Super looking bicycles - Almost certainly taken at Victoria Barracks, Beverley c.1907. 

On the right Pte Harold Pinkney 8434. Left Southampton on HMT Assaye 8th January 1908 with draft for the 2nd Bn in India. Awarded 2nd class Cert of Education Apr09. Served with F Coy and qualified 1st Class Shot Oct09. 2nd good conduct badge Jan12. 
MiC - entered France 15Jan5 and discharged to ‘Z’.

On the left, best candidate is Pte Henry Foster 8428. Served UK with 1st Bn and underwent course ‘Transport duties’ Aldershot Feb10. MiC - entered France 08Sep14 with D Coy, 1st Bn. Died 31Dec15 (probably of wounds) and buried in Selby Cemetery (native of Selby).

Mike

 

Which regiment were they in please.

[mrfrank]

17 minutes ago, max7474 said:

Which regiment were they in please.

Sorry, should have made it clearer. They’re East Yorkshire Regiment soldiers. 

[gordon92]

4 hours ago, Moonraker said:

There are quite a few passing references to Findlater in the GWF, and this may be one of the more logical places in which to post this card:

 

After receiving the VC, Findlater supplemented his Army pension by performing at music halls, but after growing outrage from the military establishment, he retired to take up farming in Banffshire in 1899. In 1914, he re-enlisted in the Gordon Highlanders and served as senior piper for the 9th Battalion until the end of 1915, when he returned home because of ill health. The 9th was at Perham Down from February to May 1915 and then at Park House until June. (Both camps were within walking distance of Ludgershall, though Perham Down was the nearest.)

Thanks for reviving the Findlater topic. Great photo of him leading the 9th Bn pipers. The big drummer is almost totally obscured by the last piper in line giving the impression that the bass drum is floating in midair.  Here's one of Findlater at Netley Hospital with his VC on display.

Source: Western Front Association

[58 Div Mule]

6 hours ago, 6RRF said:

It wouldn't be easy on active service, but they're not and so its presumably more important to secure their rifles while moving 

Yes, I’m sure you’re right. Bad practice none the less.

58 DM.

[max7474]

14 hours ago, mrfrank said:

Sorry, should have made it clearer. They’re East Yorkshire Regiment soldiers. 

Thank you.  I asked because I thought that they were.Do you know the battalion number?  I assumed 5th Cyclist battalion although they are wearing brass badges and buttons.

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, max7474 said:

Thank you.  I asked because I thought that they were.Do you know the battalion number?  I assumed 5th Cyclist battalion although they are wearing brass badges and buttons.

Both men are listed as with regular battalions early in the war and also attended regular courses mentioned in mr frank’s post, so it’s unlikely that they are TF in the photo.  It’s an interesting subject though as the bicycles do look as if they’re military issue and yet to my knowledge the regular battalions did not have cyclist sections, which were allotted as a specifically TF specialism with the regular units instead maintaining a mounted infantry capability until 1910**, as an equivalent.  There is mention of one of the two soldiers attending a ‘transport duties’ course (of instruction) so perhaps the photograph was taken during that course.

**it was abandoned in 1910 because horses were never provided by the War Department, instead relying on the infantry to borrow horses annually from cavalry units for summer training camps.  There was apparently less than wholehearted cooperation with this until it reached the stage where it was judged all too difficult…

Edited 15 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

On 27/12/2022 at 14:08, Andrew Upton said:

Bob - despite what you have just been told your earlier assessment was correct. Both soldiers are showing off very early MkI type SMLE's. These will basically only take either the 1903 Pattern or 1907 Pattern (or later derivatives) bayonets. The 1888 Pattern bayonet was designed for the earlier Long Lee Metfield and Enfield type rifles - it has the same blade as the 1903 Pattern but required substantial conversion of the pommel before it will fit the newer SMLE rifle. So it is indeed unusual to see the two of them posing with rifles that will not fit the bayonet/s on their equipment in the back of shot. It could be that the change-over from the Long Lees to the SMLE was in progress when they decided to have their picture taken, and borrowed a couple of the newer type rifles for the occasion, or some other similar explanation:

Thank you Andrew, yes that helps explain a few more things. Sorry to be late replying, life sort of got in the way.

 

On 27/12/2022 at 14:13, FROGSMILE said:

I’m sorry Bob, it’s not ever my intention to mislead you and I had thought when looking at the photo that the bayonets concerned had been modified to fit the SMLEs that the two soldiers are holding, which did occur on a large scale as mentioned.  As you can see, they look very similar from a distance.  The very learned forum member @shippingsteelis the best person to give chapter and verse on these modifications and when they took place.  

Apology accepted FROGSMILE I know you well enough to realise that you did not wish to mislead me or anyone. 'He who never made a mistake never did anything!' Sorry for the delay in replying, life got in the way. Wishing you all a Happy New Year. Regards, Bob.

[mrfrank]

7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Both men are listed as with regular battalions early in the war and also attended regular courses mentioned in mr frank’s post, so it’s unlikely that they are TF in the photo.  It’s an interesting subject though as the bicycles do look as if they’re military issue and yet to my knowledge the regular battalions did not have cyclist sections, which were allotted as a specifically TF specialism with the regular units instead maintaining a mounted infantry capability until 1910**, as an equivalent.  There is mention of one of the two soldiers attending a ‘transport duties’ course (of instruction) so perhaps the photograph was taken during that course.

**it was abandoned in 1910 because horses were never provided by the War Department, instead relying on the infantry to borrow horses annually from cavalry units for summer training camps.  There was apparently less than wholehearted cooperation with this until it reached the stage where it was judged all too difficult…

I’m under the impression that the majority of these East Yorkshire Regiment postcards that I have were taken in c.1907 at the Regimental Depot, Beverley and feature youthful new recruits.

Therefore would these soldiers be serving/training with the Depot or 3rd Battalion prior to a home posting with the 1st Battalion at Shorncliffe or overseas draft to the 2nd Battalion at Maymyo, Burma? 
 

Edited 15 January , 2023 by mrfrank