Postcards

[GWF1967]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

You can read interesting threads about the boots (with illustrations) at the following links, Bob:

1.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/275345-boot-identification/#comment-2804522

2.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/278282-these-boots-could-still-pass-parade/#comment-2842138

 

Thanks for digging Frogsmile, I remembered images of high leg boots being posted on the forum; I was busy hunting for pictures when I received an alert about your post. 

[Raster Scanning]

On 16/10/2022 at 22:31, FROGSMILE said:

Super photos, thank you for sharing them.  I especially like the group.  It’s relatively unusual to see drab puttees worn with scarlet home service frocks.  There’s a shortage of insignia with only a few wearing collar badges and several without cap badges too.  Also the front row are showing their military inexperience by folding their arms, something that in a regular army unit would generally only be done by sports teams.

Pte 

 

On 16/10/2022 at 22:31, FROGSMILE said:

Super photos, thank you for sharing them.  I especially like the group.  It’s relatively unusual to see drab puttees worn with scarlet home service frocks.  There’s a shortage of insignia with only a few wearing collar badges and several without cap badges too.  Also the front row are showing their military inexperience by folding their arms, something that in a regular army unit would generally only be done by sports teams.

Posted this group picture before.

However I have a collection of letters sent by Herbert Stancliff 'C' Coy, 16154 to his girlfriend and in this one he mentions they have been issued Khaki except hats. The few soldiers wearing khaki in the picture have not been issued the khaki cap. It is nice when a primary source matches photo evidence. Stancliff is listed as KIA on 1-7-1916 although letters to his family state he died the next day, of wounds received on 1-7-1916. His girlfriend Theodora Chantler, never married and died in her 80's. 

[FROGSMILE]

Yes it’s interesting to read contemporary writings that throw clear light on photographs like that.  The letter carries such human emotion with its talk of suffering a bad cold (very topical right now) and there is great poignancy when we consider that the writer died on the Somme and that his sweetheart never married.  I read recently that after the war there were 109 women for every 100 men as a result of the war’s death toll (that doesn’t of course even consider the roughly equal number of men maimed, but living).

Edited 17 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

You can read interesting threads about the boots (with illustrations) at the following links, Bob:

1.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/275345-boot-identification/#comment-2804522

2.https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/278282-these-boots-could-still-pass-parade/#comment-2842138

Thank you FROGSMILE, much appreciated  Edit here; These links contain other interesting links regarding the soles of boots, billed or hobnailed, mounted or dismounted troops, which have answered other questions for me.

Edited 17 January , 2023 by Bob Davies

[ianjonesncl]

14 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

4th (Durham Howitzer?) Battery, Royal Field Artillery.

@GWF1967 I can see on the first photograph RFA 4th Battery, but not reference to Durham.

Is there some information on the back or elsewhere ?

 

 

[GWF1967]

12 minutes ago, ianjonesncl said:

@GWF1967 I can see on the first photograph RFA 4th Battery, but not reference to Durham.

Is there some information on the back or elsewhere ?

 

 

Hi Ian,

 there’s nothing recorded on the back of the card. I couldn’t find a match doing a search for 4th Battery on the Long Long Trail, the only result online was for the Durham Howitzer battery, but I was unsure, hence the brackets and question mark. 

[Pat Atkins]

LLT says 4th Battery RFA was in VII Brigade, a Regular unit which was based in India and stayed there for the duration; as the picture was clearly taken in northern Europe, and does seem to be titled "RFA 4th Battery", I'm stumped.

Edit - there was also a 4th Warwickshire Howitzer Battery, 4th Kent ditto,  and no doubt many others along the same lines.

Edited 17 January , 2023 by Pat Atkins

[GWF1967]

19 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

LLT says 4th Battery RFA was in VII Brigade, a Regular unit which was based in India and stayed there for the duration; as the picture was clearly taken in northern Europe, and does seem to be titled "RFA 4th Battery", I'm stumped.

 

Thanks for looking Pat, I’ve now found the same record as you for 4th Battery, VII Brigade on LLT.
 Also stumped. 

[Bob Davies]

5 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

there’s nothing recorded on the back of the card. I couldn’t find a match doing a search for 4th Battery on the Long Long Trail, the only result online was for the Durham Howitzer battery, but I was unsure, hence the brackets and question mark. 

I have come up with nothing so far. Does the writing on the door give us any clues, if we can decipher what it says? Edit; It looks to be a two part stable door, so a stables somewhere?

Edited 17 January , 2023 by Bob Davies

[ianjonesncl]

I believe all of the Territorial Divisions would have had a 4th Battery eg 4th Nortumbrian Battery, 4th Home Counties, 4th West Lanchashire etc etc etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GWF1967]

Hussars 1920/21. 
edited to correctly identify uniform  

Edited 17 January , 2023 by GWF1967

[charlie962]

41 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Horse Artillery.

Surely not RHA?? 

Unless one of those Hussar TF units converted to Artillery postwar?

Edited 17 January , 2023 by charlie962

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Surely not RHA?? 

Perhaps not. I’m willing to be corrected - the information came from the back of the photograph. Perhaps @FROGSMILE can correctly identify the uniform for me. 

Edited 17 January , 2023 by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Perhaps not. I’m willing to be corrected - the information came from the back of the photograph. Perhaps @FROGSMILE can correctly identify the uniform for me. 

They are in Hussar uniform.  One unit that did convert to artillery without giving up its connection with Hussars is the Royal North Devon Yeomanry, but they did adopt artillery dress once converted, retaining just their special cap badge.

In general the regular Hussars wore the longer Atila jacket, whereas the regular RHA favoured the shorter Dolman jacket.  The TF did largely whatever they fancied (hence a common nickname of ‘chocolate box soldiers’ from the colourful and patriotic designs often used on such boxes of confectionery at the time).

Edited 17 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

16 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

They are in Hussar uniform.  

Many thanks for the information, and thanks to @charlie962 for flagging it up.

I’ll edit my post. 

Edited 17 January , 2023 by GWF1967

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Many thanks for the information, and thanks to @charlie962 for flagging it up.

I’ll edit my post. 

I’m intrigued as to regiment, not regulars I think, they are too self conscious of their uniform, as auxiliaries often were / are.  A yeomanry regiment enjoying dressing up perhaps, but which one…is there any clue as to location?

Edited 18 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

I’m intrigued as to regiment, not regulars I think, they are too self conscious of their uniform as auxiliaries often are.  A yeomanry regiment enjoying dressing up, but which one…is there any clue as to location?

No, it’s a photograph rather than a postcard. The only information on the back has now been shot out of the water. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

No, it’s a photograph rather than a postcard. The only information on the back has now been shot out of the water. 

I think they’re dressed for a Levee (Royal audience) post WW1 (two in the front row are wearing a ww1 medal trio).  No collar badges to ID unit so the only two clues are the precise style of pouch belt and perhaps the method of plaiting used for the cap lines.  Both the Devon Yeomanry regiments became artillery after merging to form a single unit.  It might be an occasion specifically connected with that merger and conversion of role.

The Royal North Devon Hussars Yeomanry looked favourite to me at first, but further research revealed that the pouch belt silver ‘ornaments’ definitely do not match, so it’s back to the drawing board.

 

Edited 18 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

We had a thread back in October about the Royal North Devon Yeomanry and the North Devon Yeomanry which included post-war shots of Officer groups.

One of the officers pre-war was Horace Denzil Fortescue, late 6th Earl Fortescue. He moved to the Guards during the war, but later returned to the Royal North Devon Yeomanry Artillery and would command it in the thirties.

This studio picture was taken in January 1928.

Image courtesy The National Portrait Gallery. https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw76775/Denzil-George-Fortescue-6th-Earl-Fortescue?LinkID=mp67925&role=sit&rNo=2

Some uniform similarities, but plume colour is completely different - unless he was serving in another unit at that time.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, PRC said:

We had a thread back in October about the Royal North Devon Yeomanry and the North Devon Yeomanry which included post-war shots of Officer groups.

One of the officers pre-war was Horace Denzil Fortescue, late 6th Earl Fortescue. He moved to the Guards during the war, but later returned to the Royal North Devon Yeomanry Artillery and would command it in the thirties.

This studio picture was taken in January 1928.

Image courtesy The National Portrait Gallery. https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw76775/Denzil-George-Fortescue-6th-Earl-Fortescue?LinkID=mp67925&role=sit&rNo=2

Some uniform similarities, but plume colour is completely different - unless he was serving in another unit at that time.

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you Peter that usefully confirms that subject group photo is not the North Devon’s, because as well as the different plume that you mentioned, the pouch belt’s silver ornaments do not match.  We’re looking for chains attached at the top to a distinctive crown (the most unusual feature) and arrow style pickers mounted on an ornate edged plate rather than the angular art deco style favoured by the North Devon’s.

Edited 18 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

No, it’s a photograph rather than a postcard. The only information on the back has now been shot out of the water. 

Got there with a bit of perseverance.  I was wrong about them looking like Yeomanry, I think it’s just that post WW1 the more junior officers in the group had probably never worn full dress and so look noticeably less accustomed to it.  They are in fact the 11th (Prince Albert’s Own) Hussars.  As I’d thought earlier the pouch belt and cap lines give them away.  The former was uniquely distinctive, not only having a crown (Guelphic at one point in association with Prince Albert), but also at the back out of sight. The gold lace pouchbelt had a design that was unique to the 11th Hussars with an ornate silver buckle tip and slide which could only be seen on the officer's back.  The silver chain and pickers are attached to the front of the gold lace pouchbelt. The chains are fixed to a geulphic crown with red velvet backing. In addition the cap lines were double plaited to form and attractive feature at the shoulder.

 

Edited 18 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

2/4th Hallamshire Battalion, York and Lancs Regiment. The Photographer was from Rushden so I am guessing this was taken in the period December 1916 to January 1917 when stationed in Wellingborough.

[mrfrank]

Postally used in April 1907. Main entrance to East Yorkshire regimental depot, Victoria Barracks, Beverley. 

Three posters to the left are ‘Types of the British Army’, ‘East Yorkshire Regiment’ & ‘Types of the British Army’ (featuring horses). To the right of the pedestrian gate is a poster ‘Recruits wanted for Foot Guards’ and then to far right ‘Recruits wanted for all branches of HM’s Army’.

Chap with his hands in his pockets ‘needs a rocket’. 

[GWF1967]

26 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Postally used in April 1907. Main entrance to East Yorkshire regimental depot, Victoria Barracks, Beverley. 

Three posters to the left are ‘Types of the British Army’, ‘East Yorkshire Regiment’ & ‘Types of the British Army’ (featuring horses). To the right of the pedestrian gate is a poster ‘Recruits wanted for Foot Guards’ and then to far right ‘Recruits wanted for all branches of HM’s Army’.

Chap with his hands in his pockets ‘needs a rocket’. 

As he’s in the company of 6 Regimental Policemen you’d have thought he’d be on best behaviour. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

As he’s in the company of 6 Regimental Policemen you’d have thought he’d be on best behaviour. 

I was just about to say exactly the same thing when I spotted your reply.  It does seem extraordinary!  That is almost certainly the entire section of Regimental Police at the Regimental Depot, including the Provost Sergeant himself (ironically stood directly adjacent to the culprit).  The other fellow is one of the duty drummers acting as guardroom bugler of the day (a youngster wearing field service cap).  As was traditional all the RP are in possession of good conduct badges and he with both hands thrust in pockets has 3!  Thank you for posting this excellent quality photo mrfrank.

Edited 19 January , 2023 by FROGSMILE