RAMC Database

[BJanman]

Henry Bland did serve with the 1/3rd East Lancs Filed Ambulance and was attached to the 42nd Division throughout the war. He appears to have been awarded the MM on 10th April 1918 but he was wounded - gassed on the 5th, which ties in with the Battle of the Ancre. It could be that he was notified on the 10th that he would receive an award for his actions on the 5th but the war diary might confirm this either way. The war diary for their time in Europe is at the NA under reference no WO 95/2652. His service record is also at the NA.

Barbara

[Richard Matlock]

Thanks for this , lots for me to do now

Thanks again

Rich M

[Charles Fair]

Hello Barbara

I was wondering if your database has anything on Dr Lance Lempriere, RAMC? I'm trying to find out more about his military service: I believe he was RMO of an infantry battalion, but I don't know which one. He was the doctor at Haileybury College Herts before the war. (I just posted this query on Peter Starlings 'Lancet' thread, but I am not sure that that is active these days.) Many thanks for your help.

regards

Charles

[BJanman]

Hi Charles

According to his MIC he was with No 18 General Hospital and 13th Field Ambulance, so that is probably the start of his war. His entry in the Manchester University Roll of Service states he received the O.B.E. [Mil. Div.] and his entry in the 1921 Medical Directory states he was Capt. R.A.M.C. Medical Officer, 1st Army Headquarters, but that is all I have.

You say you believe he was with an infantry battalion, do you have any other information, i.e. that he was wounded or any dates for awards? If so that will help me look him up in the Lancet. He died in 1947 and I believe the Lancet for that time period is held at the Welcome Library.

Barbara

[BrendanLee]

Hi,

There is a memorial in St. Patrick's Cathedral Dublin Ireland which is dedicated to the RAMC. The memorial says: 743 Officers and 6130 Warrant Officers, NCOs and Men who fell in the Great War and whose names are enrolled in a Golden Book placed in the Chapter House, Westminster Abbey.

It might be worth contacting Westminster Abbey to see if this book still exists. St. Patrick's Cathedral holds a similar collection of all the Irishmen, some 49,000, who fell in the Great War which is available on CD. I can send you a photo of the memorial if you want one.

[Charles Fair]

According to his MIC he was with No 18 General Hospital and 13th Field Ambulance, so that is probably the start of his war. His entry in the Manchester University Roll of Service states he received the O.B.E. [Mil. Div.] and his entry in the 1921 Medical Directory states he was Capt. R.A.M.C. Medical Officer, 1st Army Headquarters, but that is all I have.

You say you believe he was with an infantry battalion, do you have any other information, i.e. that he was wounded or any dates for awards? If so that will help me look him up in the Lancet. He died in 1947 and I believe the Lancet for that time period is held at the Welcome Library.

Thanks Barbara - I didn't think to look at his MIC as I didn't realise that RAMC MICs gave more than just RAMC, so that is new to me. The lack of service record is a hindrance. His late daughter understood that he had been an RMO with an infantry battalion, but I haven't so far been able to corroborate. I will check the London Gazette too as the OBE is new information too. regards, Charles

[BJanman]

Charles

Most MIC's don't provide medical units or regiments attached to, but some do so it's always worth checking.

I've noticed a pattern that some [not all] doctors went to a general hospital first, then onto a field ambulance and then onto infantry regiments so there is a possibility that he did serve with one for most of the war. It could be to do with training, I guess that general practitioners would need specialist training in the types of injuries they would face when they arrived on the front lines.

The war diary for the 13th Field Ambulance may provide clues as to where he was next posted to.

Barbara

[BJanman]

It might be worth contacting Westminster Abbey to see if this book still exists. St. Patrick's Cathedral holds a similar collection of all the Irishmen, some 49,000, who fell in the Great War which is available on CD. I can send you a photo of the memorial if you want one.

Westminster Abbey has three books to commemorate the RAMC, one commemorates those who fell in the Great War, another commemorates those who fell in World War Two and the other commemorates those who died in other conflicts. The Corps holds a little ceremony once a month, called 'The Turning of the Pages', where they turn a page from each of the books.

Would love to see a photograph of the memorial.

Thanks

Barbara

[BrendanLee]

Hi Barbara,

The photo was taken just after the 11/11/2009 hence the wreath. Many doctors and surgeons from Trinity College which is just down the road from the Cathedral served with the RAMC during WW1.

Regards,

Brendan

[BJanman]

Thanks Brendan. I have downloaded the photograph and will show to my friends at the next meeting. I come across the name 'Trinity College' quite a lot. We are looking into the Irish doctor's qualifications because they appear slightly different to English qualifications.

Barbara

[Charles Fair]

Barbara, I should add re Dr Lempriere that I found an obituary in 27 Sept 1947 edition of the BMJ when I googled him. He also appeared in the BMJ on 8 Feb 1919 after he was awarded the French Medaille des Epidemies. No further info on his military service.

Charles

[grantowi]

Barbara,

Do you have Ernest LAMBOURNE, Driver 1800, 1st South Western Mounted Bde. Field Amb on your list ?

Killed in accident "Forest Row" Training Camp, Surrey on 03/06/1915, aged 23

He was a Storekeeper in Swindon's GWR works and had been for 3 yrs before he enlisted

He's buried in Radnor St Cemetery, Swindon.

If you send me an address, I can send you a photo of the stone

Grant

[Michael Pegum]

Thanks Brendan. .... We are looking into the Irish doctor's qualifications because they appear slightly different to English qualifications.

Barbara

I can help on this. Doctors who qualified from the universities in Ireland had the degrees of M.B. (Bachelor of Medicine) and B.Ch. (Bachelor of Surgery), like many universities in the rest of the (then) U.K. They also had the degree of B.A.O. (Bachelor in Obstetric Science).

Graduates of the medical school of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland which, unlike the Colleges in London, Edinburgh and Glasgow, had (and still does have) an undergraduate medical school, were conferred with the diplomas of L.R.C.P & S.I (Licenciate of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons of Ireland). This was equivalent to the degrees of the universities.

There was also a rather disreputable, but legitimate, college called the Apothecaries' Hall, which could also issue a license: L.A.H. (Licentiate of the Apothecaries' Hall). No teaching went on there, and the exam was regarded as 'plan B' for those who anticipated failing the exam in their own colleges.

The Apothecaries' Hall has been closed down for about 50 years, and the R.C.S.I. graduates have, for the last 20 years or so, been awarded M.B., B.Ch. degrees by the National University of Ireland. Explaining the L.R.C.P. & S.I. in America was too difficult; it was bad enough explaining the M.B., when all of their graduates had an M.D.!

By the way, Trinity College is the only college in the University of Dublin. The National University has several, beginning with University Colleges of Dublin, Cork and Galway.

All clear?

Michael

[BJanman]

Barbara, I should add re Dr Lempriere that I found an obituary in 27 Sept 1947 edition of the BMJ when I googled him. He also appeared in the BMJ on 8 Feb 1919 after he was awarded the French Medaille des Epidemies. No further info on his military service.

Charles

Hi Charles

Thanks for the above. Did you find anything on the OBE? I am not convinced now as he is not listed in the Haward book I have on honours and awards. I cannot trace him in the September 1918 Army List either.

I will keep looking.

Barbara

[BJanman]

Barbara,

Do you have Ernest LAMBOURNE, Driver 1800, 1st South Western Mounted Bde. Field Amb on your list ?

Grant

Thanks Grant, he is not on the database yet but I will add him asap. I can't send you a PM with my email address as my PM system is not working. I will try through the email.

Barbara

[BJanman]

Graduates of the medical school of the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland which, unlike the Colleges in London, Edinburgh and Glasgow, had (and still does have) an undergraduate medical school, were conferred with the diplomas of L.R.C.P & S.I (Licenciate of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons of Ireland). This was equivalent to the degrees of the universities.

Michael

Thanks Michael.

It's the above I am unsure about. For example, many English doctors had [and maybe still have] the qualifications - L.R.C.P. - Licentiate of the Royal College of Physicians and/or L.R.C.S. - Licentiate of the Royal College of Surgeons, whereas many Irish doctors have L.R.C.P & S.I (Licenciate of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons of Ireland). So it appears as if the English qualifications are taken separately, whilst the Irish qualification is one. The people I have asked didn't know and said they would look into it for me. I will show them what you have told me.

Thanks again

Barbara

[Michael Pegum]

Thanks Michael.

It's the above I am unsure about. For example, many English doctors had [and maybe still have] the qualifications - L.R.C.P. - Licentiate of the Royal College of Physicians and/or L.R.C.S. - Licentiate of the Royal College of Surgeons, whereas many Irish doctors have L.R.C.P & S.I (Licenciate of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons of Ireland). So it appears as if the English qualifications are taken separately, whilst the Irish qualification is one. The people I have asked didn't know and said they would look into it for me. I will show them what you have told me.

Thanks again

Barbara

It's a minor difference. English doctors taking the undergraduate exams of the Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons would be given the L.R.C.P. and the L.R.C.S. It was necessary to have both to become a registered medical practitioner. I have no idea why they didn't run the initials together as in Ireland. They were equivalent qualifications. Later, the College of Surgeons changed their diploma to a Membership, so you will see doctors with M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. after their names.

Michael

[Radlad]

I'm not sure if I should be posting this here, but it's worth a try.

Corporal John Bradshaw RAMC 78721 . Mic states BWM + VM with no overseas posting date and no entries on the reverse

I suspect this is my g-uncle but am not sure as I cant find any enlistment details. If it is him, He spent all his working life at Sandhole Colliery, Worsley, Manchester , Most of it as a pit deputy responsible for safety and rescue. I have a photo of him with his 2 brothers (1 also wearing RAMC uniform) and his future wife, my Aunt Henrietta, commonly known as Hett. Is the picture any use for the database and what avenues can I go down to confirm the Mic is indeed my g-uncles

All answers, including Flak gratefully recieved.

[stevenbecker]

Mate.

Thank you for the offer to chase up soldiers in the RAMC.

I am after the Doctors that served with the Camel Bde during the war in the desert.

I have two on record but there must have been more during the more then three years the Bde was in action.

These are'

Collier William T. Dr Capt RMO attch 2Bn MC Ex RAMC to 15 GH to 88 GH WIA 19-4-17? WIA 27-11-17 MC

De Boer Henry S Dr Capt ICC RMO att 1Bn HQ Ex RAMC

Any more details you have on these two men or others on record would help/

The British 1/1st Welsh FA was attached to the ICC Bde in early 1917 and the 1/1st Scottish Horse FA was used till the Australian Camel Bde Field Amblance took over the medical needs from June 1917 but British doctor s continued to served in the Bde.

S.B

[Guest]

Hi stevebecker

I'm just new here but wondering if you saw the post i left for you under the 47th battalion thread?

Peter

[BJanman]

Later, the College of Surgeons changed their diploma to a Membership, so you will see doctors with M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. after their names.

Michael

Thanks again Michael, that helps a lot.

Barbara

[BJanman]

Is the picture any use for the database and what avenues can I go down to confirm the Mic is indeed my g-uncles

The Absent Voters List in the area John was living at the time should confirm it. I have attached a link to the Long, Long Trail, where Chris explains what they are and where to find them here Alternatively, I note he worked in Manchester, have you tried the Manchester Regiment forum and the Manchester Forum as they might be able to help?

He is not on my database but I do still have quite a few members lists to specific RAMC units to add, these often give addresses and not service numbers though but it might be an idea to keep a look out on the RAMC database in case his details appear.

I am happy to set up a profile to John on the database and add a photograph.

Barbara

[BJanman]

Steve [s.B]

A quick look on my database I have Lt. H S De Boer serving with the 1st Bn. Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

I have to go now but will see what else I can find for you and will let you know in the next couple of days. There are a few places to search.

Barbara

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Thanks any help would be great.

S.B

[BJanman]

Hi Steve

Henry Speildewindle De Boer

He is listed in the 1918 Army List as T/Capt from 11th Jan 1916, that would mean he was probably commissioned Lieutenant around 11th January 1915. He went to Gallipoli or entered Gallipoli on 25th April 1915. I have him listed as serving with the 1st Bn. Royal Dublin Fusiliers when he was a Lt. His MC is announced in the LG on 1/1/1918. His obit can be found here.

Willliam Tregonwell Collier

All the info I could trace on William [which wasn't very much] is in his obit here.

Some info I found on the 1st/1st Scottish Horse Field Ambulance from 1915:

The Brigade arrived in Alexandria 28 December 1915 and went to Sidi Bishr Camp. The Brigade finally broke up in Cairo on 21 January 1916 and were known as the Imperial Camel Corps Field Ambulance and the Scottish Horse Field Ambulance joined the Camel Corps in the Western Frontier Force April 1916. The unit was engaged in the operations against the Magdhaba (December 1916) and after the occupation of El Arish the unit replaced an improvised Camel Section of 1st/1st Welsh Field Ambulance on 9 January 1917 and was called the Imperial Camel Corps Field Ambulance. The unit had been sent to Jeddah in August 1916 but did not disembark, being returned to Egypt instead. Transport was 18 Camel Cacolets and 30 Litters. No Sandcarts or Sandsledges. After the Gaza Battles they served for a time with the 20th Corps and then 21st Corps. In November 1917 the unit took over the Rest Station at El Arish to retain and treat 2000 slightly wounded and sick. They also set-up a similar station at Ludd prior to the advance to Haifa. During 1918 they were used as Divisional Receiving Stations on the lines of communication.

I do not have any other RMOs listed as serving with the ICC at the moment, but I have so much to add so if I come across any I will start a thread to let you know.

Barbara