Photograph- Staff College Quetta 1911

[mrfrank]

EG Dunn (Royal Irish Rifles) is middle left of the five you’ve posted Peter 

[mrfrank]

WAS (William Archibald Smail) Walker is in my May 1910 AL as Quetta Student (specially nominated). Didn’t appear on the list posted in the thread earlier.

Edited 21 February , 2023 by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

19 minutes ago, PRC said:

Even with those latest two that still leaves us with 13 out of the 55 individuals on the 1910 Staff College picture still without a clear candidate.

I've checked the outstanding names from the 1909 and 1910 entrants and realised I've missed one of the 1910 entrants in the summary above - John Harvey de Wiederhold Carruthers, 1st Bn 39th Garwhal Rifles. But that still only leaves 11 of the known students outstanding.  Even if Thompson the 17th Lancers turns out to be an additional graduate and not an error in the newspaper report, that still leaves us short.

To try and fill the gap I took a closer look at the autographs on the border of the picture to see if that brought any new names to light.

Heres the 1909 intake, with signatures where available and number on the picture, if known.

And the same for the 1910 intake.

Theodore Fraser, one of the college instructors also appears to have signed it.

Which then appears to leave five autographs that don't to my eyes readily tie back to any of those names.

The first and second ones at a push might be D,S. Crombie and J.C Macrae. Any guesses as to the others?

There is also some writing under the picture, but at least one of the autographs has then been written over the top, so I suspect its not enough signature. Unfortunately it is really too faint to really make anything out even if I darken it.

Cheers,
Peter

The faint signature to the right of ‘Wethered’ looks like it could be possibly ‘BH Cooke’ (Rifle Brigade)

Edited 21 February , 2023 by mrfrank

[Bob Davies]

22 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

WAS (William Archibald Smail) Walker is in my May 1910 AL as Quetta Student (specially nominated). Didn’t appear on the list posted in the thread earlier.

This signature I believe.

[mrfrank]

On 19/02/2023 at 21:05, Bob Davies said:

John Cecil Macrae DSC.  He appears on a number of Ancestry family trees. Originally Hampshire regiment.  Born 1 Sept 1881. Temp Lt Col 1917. picture courtesy Ancestry.

With reference to the signatures in doubt/unaccounted that Peter posted, I think I agree that one is ‘JC Macrae’ and the position of the signature would suggest that he is #53 on the 1910 photo. Should appear on the 1911 photo, but no apparent match to #53, but perhaps he wasn’t present for the later photo that day? 
In the AL ‘war services’ section it only lists him as ‘Aden 1903-04 Operations in the interior’, but no reference to a medal awarded.

#53 is without medals.

Edited 21 February , 2023 by mrfrank

[PRC]

1 hour ago, mrfrank said:

EG Dunn (Royal Irish Rifles) is middle left of the five you’ve posted Peter 

Good spot. That means all of the outstanding individuals from the 1909 intake, Dunn, Conway-Gordon, Fordham and Elias, have all signed the picture, which must be a good sign that they are present.

1 hour ago, mrfrank said:

WAS (William Archibald Smail) Walker is in my May 1910 AL as Quetta Student (specially nominated). Didn’t appear on the list posted in the thread earlier.

May be my error, but I'm not sure he has come up before. He was with the 46th Punjabis at this time of the Staff College photograph, but was killed in action in East Africa on the 12th April 1915 while attached to the 130th Baluchis.

The Dulwich College War Memorial site has a webpage for him. Attachments include this newspaper memorial which shows him as entitled to at least two medals prior to his arrival at the Staff College. Edit or possibly one medal, three clasps?

It also has a undated picture of him. The webpage notes that he served with the 45th Sikhs and the 40th Pathans before joining the 46th Punjabis on that regiments creation in 1900.

To me he looks much younger - possibly as much as 15 years younger than how he would have appeared in the 1910 picture. That timescale would also put him with one of the earliers Indian Army regiments he served with, and so the uniform may be no guide as to how he appeared in 1910. So for now I'm not seeing a clear match.

Both images courtesy https://dulwichcollege1914-18.co.uk/fallen/walker-was/

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 21 February , 2023 by PRC

[mrfrank]

On 20/02/2023 at 18:00, PRC said:

First summary of the 1910-1911 Staff College photo, owner @JAH1979 :-

[Numbers in square brackets are the same officer on the 1911 picture].

1: Probably Francis William Loveday, 75th Company, RGA (China 1900 Medal and Queen’s Medal with one clasp). One of the 1910 entrants.  Survived the war only to die of influenza in the UK in 1919.[26]
2: Probably Basil Edwin Crockett, 17th Lancers. One of the 1910 entrants.  He commanded the 11^th Battalion, Hampshire Regiment in the Great War.[4]
3: David Graeme Ridgeway, 3^rd Q.A.O. Goorkha Rifles (MiC for Staff Captain D.G. Ridgeway, 3^rd Gurkhas). 1914 Harts give us David Graeme Ridgeway, Bedford Regiment, 2^nd Bn, 3^rd Goorkha Regiment and Brigade Major. Sirkind Brigade.
4: Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Native Infantry.
5: John Gwynne Griffith, 32nd Lancers. As Major, 32nd Lancers and staff of the 9th Cavalry Brigade, died on the 24th May 1915, aged 40, killed in action.
6: Digby Inglis Shuttleworth, 3^rd Q.A.O. Goorkha Rifles. (MiCs for a D.F and D.J. Shuttleworth, Staff Major and Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel)
7: Possibly Patrick Sinclair Stoney, 26^th Punjabis (MiC as Major P.S Stoney 26^th Punjabi’s).
8: William Henry Bartholomew, Royal Field Artillery, (MiC for a Brigadier General William Henry Bartholomew, Royal Field Artillery. Landed France 14^th August 1914 as Major and G.S.O. 3, General Headquarters, 1^st Echelon).
9: Probably Thomas George Jameson Torrie, 27th Light Cavalry. One of the 1910 entrants.  Subsequently 2^nd Life Guards. Killed in Action 18^th November 1916 while attached 7^th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment. [41]
10. Hugh Hill, M.V.O., Royal Welsh Fusiliers.
11. Walter Lloyd Sinclair Meiklejohn, 106th Hazara Pioneers. One of the 1910 entrants.[28]
12. Probably Meredith Ashton Hamer, 129^th D.C.O. Ballochi’s. (MiC as Major M.A. Hamer, 129^th Baluchi Infanry, Staff and Headquarters).
13. Gerard Maxwell Glynton, 3^rd Q.A.O. Goorkha Rifles (MiCs for Major & Staff Captain Gerard Maxwell Glynton, 2/3^rd Gurkha Rifles and Lieutenant Colonel 12^th Indian Infantry Brigade).
14. An officer who is currently believed to be either 32^nd or 34^th Sikh Pioneers on the 1911 Picture. However we now know he is very likely to be a 1910 entrant, which narrows things down – possibly Arthur Charles Samuel Burdon Ellis, 121^st Pioneers needs another look.[47]
15: Native cavalry? As a 1910 entrant that shifts the focus to John Arthur Muirhead, 1st Duke of York's Own Lancers (Skinner's Horse) as a possibility.[25]
16. Probably C.M. Wagstaff, Royal Engineers (MiC - Brig. Gen Sir Cyril Mosley Wagstaff). 1909 Entrant.
17. Cyril Norman MacMullen, 15th Ludhiana Sikhs.[45]
18. Gurkha ? No Medal. Possibly also 9th Gurkha Rifles, who favoured a Rifle Brigade style pouch belt badge of the pattern with a ‘Guelphic crown’.  However, could be Garwhal Rifle Regiment as insignia very similar. As a 1910 entrant that puts John Harvey de Wiederhold Carruthers, 1st Bn 39th Garwhal Rifles and William Campbell Little, 1st Bn 6th Gurkha Rifles in the frame. [27]
19. Infantry? One medal – with clasp(s)? As a 1910 entrant previously unaccounted for I believe that narrows us down to John Cecil Macrae, (19^th Punjabis),  Laurence Balfour Cloete, (37th Dogras) and Edgar Claude Kensington, (130th Prince of Wales' Own Baluchis) – I’ll take the two unaccounted Gurkha Officers out of consideration and we have a contender for Carruthers or the Garwhal Rifles against number 18.[36]
20. James Atkinson Longridge, Supply and Transport Corps. (MiCs for Lieutenant Colonel J.A. Longridge, 43^rd Erinpura Regiment and General Headquarters Staff).
21. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Infantry?
22. Walter Joseph Maxwell-Scott, Scottish Rifles – (MiC - Brig.Gen Walter Joseph Maxwell- Scott ex Scottish Rifles – also recorded as Major General Sir Walter J. Constable-Maxwell-Scott)
23. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Native Infantry.
24. Herbert Edmund Reginald Rubens Braine, Royal Munster Fusiliers. Medal entitlement QM + 4 clasps and India GS Medal with clasp  (Mohmand 1908). 
25. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Native Cavalry.
26. Possibly Walter Mervyn St George Kirke, 59th Company, RGA [44]
27. Possibly George Hutchison, 122nd Rajputana Infantry. China 1900 Medal.[42]
28. Probably Oswald Arthur Gerald Fitgerald, 18^th K.G.O. Lancers. 1909 entrant.
29. David Campbell Crombie, 23rd Cavalry (MiC for Major David Campbell Crombie, 23rd Cavalry & 28th Cavalry, Poona Division.).
30. Probably Arthur William Hamilton May Moens, 52nd Sikhs (F.F.). Uniform is Native Infantry. Frogsmile - a regiment styled as rifles, and possibly Corps of Guides infantry, but I’m unsure.[15]
31. Harold Hereward Hughes-Hallett, 2nd North Staffs. One of the 1910 entrants.[40]
32. Harold Lewis, 37th Lancers (Baluch Horse). NW Frontier of India medal+clasp [35]
33. Infantry. No medals? This might be 1st Prince of Wales’s Own Gurkha Rifles.  Another possibility is a 130th King George's Own Baluchis that also featured PoW feathers.  The former seems closer but the scroll under the badge doesn’t chime. 1910 entrant.[43]
34. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Infantry?
35. Bertram Hewett Hunter Cooke, Rifle Brigade (MiC - Brigadier General B.H.H. Cooke, C.M.G & D.S.O. Numerous staff positions listed on MiC.) Served with the RAF from its founding.
36. Major Berkeley Vincent, 6^th Dragoons
37. Theodore Fraser, R.E. (College Staff). [57]
38. Henry Dowrish Drake, Royal Marine Artillery (College Staff) [56]
39. College Commandant Thompson Capper
40. Possibly George McKenzie Franks, Royal Artillery (College Staff). [58]
41. Probably Alexander Montagu Spears Elsmie, 56th Punjab Rifles, (College Staff). [50]
42. Matthew Percival Buckle , RWKR. [51]
43. Probably James Farquhar, 19th Battery, RFA (Queen’s medal with 2 clasps and African General Service Medal with two clasps). Definitely RA, as evidenced by plain gold laced pouch belt.[3]
44. Henry Clare Duncan, 1st Battalion, 9th Gurkha Rifles.[29]
45. Francis John Joslin, 2nd Royal West Kent Regiment.[30]
46. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. ???
47. Francis Duncan Irvine, 2nd Queen's Own Sappers & Miners. [9]
48. Joseph Robert Wethered, Gloucestershire Regiment. (MiC - Brevet Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Robert Wethered, 14^th Infantry Brigade Staff Major, Captain Gloucestershire Regiment, C.M.G & D.S.O.)
49. Gerald Farrell Boyd DSO, 2nd Leinster. [34]
50. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Native Infantry
51. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. Native Infantry.
52. Possibly Eric Fairweather Harrison, Royal Australian Garrison Artillery. [46]
53. Not sure there is a match for the 1911 photo. ???
54. Gurkha ? No Medal. 1910 entrant. Possibly also 9th Gurkha Rifles, who favoured a Rifle Brigade style pouch belt badge of the pattern with a ‘Guelphic crown’.  However, could be Garwhal Rifle Regiment as insignia very similar.[27]
55. Francis Hamilton Moore, 2nd Berkshire, (the bullion Chinese collar dragon is clear).[19]

Of the 55 officers photographed we have a strong or definate candidate for 40 of them

Outstanding names

All Captains.

1909 Intake.

Ernest George Dunn, Royal Irish Rifles (MiC - Major Ernest George Dunn, Poona Division & Royal Irish Rifles.)

Esme Cosmo William Conway-Gordon, 3^rd Skinners Horse (MiCs for MiD Indian Army Staff Major E.C.W. Conway-Gordon, Skinners House). Lives of the First World War as Esme Cosmo William Conway-Gordon. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/5378211

William Marshall Fordham, 20^th D.C.O. Infantry, (2 x MiC for a Lieutenant-Colonel W.M. Fordham, one as 20^th Infantry and the other serving with the 20^th D C O Infantry, Indian Army).

Michael George Dobbie Rowlandson Rowlandson, 38^th Dogras. (MICs as Brigade Major and Brevet Lieutenant Colonel 15^th Indian Infantry Brigade M.G.D. Rowlandson.) Army List as Michael George Dobbie Rowlandson.

Frederick Stewart Keen, 45^th Rattray’s Sikhs. (MIC as Temporary Lieutenant-Colonel and Staff Major F.S. Keen, D.S.O., 45^th Sikhs). Single picture found but face obscured by a watermark.

Alfred Hearst Wynn Elias, 1^st K.G.O. Goorkha Rifles (MiC for Major A.H.W. Elias-Wynn, 2/1^st Gurkhas serving with the RAF as Lieutenant-Colonel).Subsequently Group Captain RAF.

1910 Intake

John Arthur Muirhead, 1st Duke of York's Own Lancers (Skinner's Horse)
John Cecil Macrae, 19th Punjabis - a possible picture but it may have been mis-identifird.
Laurence Balfour Cloete, 37th Dogras
Arthur Charles Samuel Burdon Ellis, 121st Pioneers
Edgar Claude Kensington, 130th Prince of Wales' Own Baluchis
William Campbell Little, 1st Bn 6th Gurkha Rifles – Picture available but no obvious match on the Quetta Staff College photograph. The 1914 Annual Army List only has him eligible for the NW Frontier of India, Waziristan , 1901-2 medal with clasp.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter, your #46 in your list here for the 1910 photo appears to have a match to the #16 on the 1911 photo. Only difference is that he doesn’t appear to be wearing his medal in the earlier photo. 
I believe both to be CRF Seymour (QM + 4 clasps that he’s wearing in the 1911 photo). 

[mrfrank]

12 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

I am inclined to stick with 21. Number 53 has a 'pagri' on his helmet that may help an identificaton?

 

He does I am sure!

#21 is also a ‘medal match’ for FS Keen. (Tirah 1897-8 Medal + 2 clasps, African GS Medal + 2 clasps) 

[mrfrank]

36 minutes ago, PRC said:

Good spot. That means all of the outstanding individuals from the 1909 intake, Dunn, Conway-Gordon, Fordham and Elias, have all signed the picture, which must be a good sign that they are present.

May be my error, but I'm not sure he has come up before. He was with the 46th Punjabis at this time of the Staff College photograph, but was killed in action in East Africa on the 12th April 1915 while attached to the 130th Baluchis.

The Dulwich College War Memorial site has a webpage for him. Attachments include this newspaper memorial which shows him as entitled to at least two medals prior to his arrival at the Staff College. Edit or possibly one medal, three clasps?

It also has a undated picture of him. The webpage notes that he served with the 45th Sikhs and the 40th Pathans before joining the 46th Punjabis on that regiments creation in 1900.

To me he looks much younger - possibly as much as 15 years younger than how he would have appeared in the 1910 picture. That timescale would also put him with one of the earliers Indian Army regiments he served with, and so the uniform may be no guide as to how he appeared in 1910. So for now I'm not seeing a clear match.

Both images courtesy https://dulwichcollege1914-18.co.uk/fallen/walker-was/

Cheers,
Peter

Think WAS Walker could be #51 on 1910 photo. He’s signed the mount immediately below. 
WAS Walker was eligible for the IGS Medal + 3 clasps. I think #51 is wearing a medal, but it is unfortunately unclear and obscured by both his cross belt and the angle he’s sitting at. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

The more I look at the picture you posted FROGSMILE the more I think the Officer seated left is actually our man Keen.

Yes I’d say it’s him too Bob.  That’s a good spot.

[mrfrank]

ECW Conway-Gordon has also signed below #25. I can’t see any other native cavalry candidates for him either.

Medal entitlement of IGS Medal + 3 clasps (visible), Africa GSM + 2 clasps (also visible I think). 
Only discrepancy is that he appears to be wearing a 3rd medal in the photo. 

[PRC]

23 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Peter, your #46 in your list here for the 1910 photo appears to have a match to the #16 on the 1911 photo. Only difference is that he doesn’t appear to be wearing his medal in the earlier photo. 
I believe both to be CRF Seymour (QM + 4 clasps that he’s wearing in the 1911 photo). 

On the 1910 picture because of the way Officer 46 is leaning forward, I believe the head of the man sitting on the ground in front of him may well obscure the area of his chest where a medal might be. It also unfortunately obscures the piping down the button hole edge of his jacket, which might also have been a factor. The tilt of the head also for me complicates the facial comparison. I think for me it would come under the category possible rather than probable.

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

[mrfrank]

Just looked up the medal entitlement for  PS Stoney the possible candidate for #7 on the 1910 photo. 
Eligible for IGS Medal + clasp (1908 Ops in Mohmand). #7 appears to be a match for that. 

[FROGSMILE]

53 minutes ago, PRC said:

Good spot. That means all of the outstanding individuals from the 1909 intake, Dunn, Conway-Gordon, Fordham and Elias, have all signed the picture, which must be a good sign that they are present.

May be my error, but I'm not sure he has come up before. He was with the 46th Punjabis at this time of the Staff College photograph, but was killed in action in East Africa on the 12th April 1915 while attached to the 130th Baluchis.

The Dulwich College War Memorial site has a webpage for him. Attachments include this newspaper memorial which shows him as entitled to at least two medals prior to his arrival at the Staff College. Edit or possibly one medal, three clasps?

It also has a undated picture of him. The webpage notes that he served with the 45th Sikhs and the 40th Pathans before joining the 46th Punjabis on that regiments creation in 1900.

To me he looks much younger - possibly as much as 15 years younger than how he would have appeared in the 1910 picture. That timescale would also put him with one of the earliers Indian Army regiments he served with, and so the uniform may be no guide as to how he appeared in 1910. So for now I'm not seeing a clear match.

Both images courtesy https://dulwichcollege1914-18.co.uk/fallen/walker-was/

Cheers,
Peter

In the photo where he’s wearing a drab coloured rifles pattern tunic he’s in the 46th Punjabis Peter.  The 45th Rattrays Sikhs wore a conventional scarlet tunic, as shown earlier, and the 40th Pathans officers wore rifle green with a Rifle Brigade style pouch belt plate.

Edited 22 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

7 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Think WAS Walker could be #51 on 1910 photo. He’s signed the mount immediately below. 

1 minute ago, mrfrank said:

ECW Conway-Gordon has also signed below #25.

Having worked my way round the signatures to produce the match up to the student list I wouldn't put too much faith in their placing as an indicator of where they are on the photograph. Supporting evidence when you already know where someone is, but I'd suggest not enough by itself to put a name to a face.

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I’d say it’s him too Bob.  That’s a good spot.

Any idea when that picture was taken - I'm not finding a source for it online.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, PRC said:

Any idea when that picture was taken - I'm not finding a source for it online.

Cheers,
Peter

 

It’s in the regimental entry within the British Empire website section titled Armed Forces that I introduced earlier in the thread.  Each regiment has a sub-section on post mutiny ‘Uniforms’.

It will probably have been originally sourced from the National Army Museum photographic archive.

Edited 22 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

27 minutes ago, PRC said:

Having worked my way round the signatures to produce the match up to the student list I wouldn't put too much faith in their placing as an indicator of where they are on the photograph. Supporting evidence when you already know where someone is, but I'd suggest not enough by itself to put a name to a face.

Cheers,
Peter

I’ll have to amicably disagree with you there as I’m of the opinion that the majority of signatures have been placed in relation to their position in the photo. 
EG Dunn is I believe #23 on the 1910 photo. Royal Irish Rifles badge just visible on the crossbelt. Signed in the correct place just above where  T Fraser did. Both correspond to their position in the photo. If W Little (6th Gurkha Rifles) followed their example then he’s likely #50. Entitlement to IGS Medal + clasp for Waziristan 1901-2 also appears to fit.
 

Edited 22 February , 2023 by mrfrank

[FROGSMILE]

On 22/02/2023 at 00:35, mrfrank said:

I’ll have to amicably disagree with you there as I’m of the opinion that the majority of signatures have been placed in relation to their position in the photo. 
EG Dunn is I believe #23 on the 1910 photo. Royal Irish Rifles badge just visible on the crossbelt. Signed in the correct place just above where  T Fraser did. Both correspond to their position in the photo. If W Little (6th Gurkha Rifles) followed their example then he’s likely #50. 

Yes I agree, and #50 is indeed 6th Gurkha Rifles.  They were unusual at the time for a Gurkha regiment in wearing crossed kukri collar badges.  Also, see pouch belt plate below.

Edited 23 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I agree, and #50 is indeed 6th Gurkha Rifles.  They were unusual at the time for a Gurkha regiment in wearing crossed kukri collar badges.

Thanks Bob…..i was looking so much at medals that I completely missed the crossed Kukri collar badges! 
 

[PRC]

29 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

I’ll have to amicably disagree with you there as I’m of the opinion that the majority of signatures have been placed in relation to their position in the photo. 
EG Dunn is I believe #23 on the 1910 photo. Royal Irish Rifles badge just visible on the crossbelt. Signed in the correct place just above where  T Fraser did. Both correspond to their position in the photo. If W Little (6th Gurkha Rifles) followed their example then he’s likely #50. 

And I amicably disagree back

If you did not know from this thread where Wagstaff, Rowlandson, Braine, Hughes-Hallett were, for example, then it would be sheer guesswork to identify their positioning in the photograph from the placing of the signature.

I not saying that the matching you have done will turn out to be wrong,  I'm just saying its a very dodgy basis for making a definative identification in the absence of any other evidence.

Where it may help is by limiting the area to be examined - the positioning of those four examples might have narrowed the search to 10-12 individuals rather than all 55. And if that focus helps bring up items like a regimental badge or the medals on displaying matching those known to have been awarded at the time the photograph was most likely taken, then for me that is firmer evidence for the identification.

But at the end of the day that's my personal opinion. It's not my project and I'm not the final arbiter, so if the consensus is there as to the identity of a particular individual then I'll go with that.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited 22 February , 2023 by PRC
Can't count

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, PRC said:

Any idea when that picture was taken - I'm not finding a source for it online.

Cheers,
Peter

 

1901 apparently, Peter.  Here is the link: https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/indianinfantry/45thsikhs1901.htm

[Bob Davies]

11 hours ago, mrfrank said:

With reference to the signatures in doubt/unaccounted that Peter posted, I think I agree that one is ‘JC Macrae’ and the position of the signature would suggest that he is #53 on the 1910 photo. Should appear on the 1911 photo, but no apparent match to #53, but perhaps he wasn’t present for the later photo that day? 
In the AL ‘war services’ section it only lists him as ‘Aden 1903-04 Operations in the interior’, but no reference to a medal awarded.

#53 is without medals.

I believe that 53 1910 photo is J C Macrae mrfrank. Both have a big dimple in the chin and the  faces looks too similar.

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

I believe that 53 1910 photo is J C Macrae mrfrank. Both have a big dimple in the chin and the  faces looks too similar.

His regiment appears to be Sikh.  Sikh regiments favoured the striped part of a Sikhs headdress wrapped around their white helmets as a distinctive pagri, but more importantly at least one of their regiments favoured the unusual cuff mitre with a longer than usual point as seen in this case.  However, it seems also to be a regiment that did not wear a collar badge.

Edited 22 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

12 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

The more I look at the picture you posted FROGSMILE the more I think the Officer seated left is actually our man Keen.

10 hours ago, mrfrank said:

#21 is also a ‘medal match’ for FS Keen. (Tirah 1897-8 Medal + 2 clasps, African GS Medal + 2 clasps) 

Adding the 1901 pic to the mix

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

1901 apparently, Peter.  Here is the link: https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/indianinfantry/45thsikhs1901.htm

Thanks Frogmile - I must have done umpteen searches on 45th Rattrays Sikhs  \ 45th Sikhs \ Rattrays Sikhs over the last week and have frequently looked at their main page on the British Empire site but never come across that standalone one.

I may be missing it but there doesn't appear to be a link from the main page to the one with the 1901 picture https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/indianinfantry/45thsikhs.htm

Very glad you're more familiar with the goodies they have salted away there

Cheers,
Peter