Photograph- Staff College Quetta 1911

[Bob Davies]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

No he’s not Bob, I’ve already told you that all the officers, except those in native (Type A) dress, are wearing tunics.  It’s the quality and cut that makes it a tunic, not the colour and design.  The best and most expensive upper garment was the tunic, followed by the mess dress jacket.  Rifle regiment officers, and their WO/staff sergeant’s pattern tunics, had the frogged front that we’ve already discussed, regardless of whether Drab, or Rifle Green in colour. 

I now see it FROGSMILE. The Jacket that Ridgeway is wearing, is open, has a lower rounded collar and though I can't see it on the picture it only comes down to his waist. Whereas the tunics,  as I know, have the high collar and are down past the waist. Mess dress jacket and Tunic, both having the frogging. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. I hope to heck I have it else I'll be in the guardroom! ***

[PRC]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Here is a photo of a senior 3rd Gurkha wearing a pouch belt post 1908. 

Certainly by the time Gerard Maxwell Glynton was gazetted as promoted from Lieutenant to Captain with effect from the 25th January 1908, his unit was shown as 3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles. The relevant gazette was dated April 10, 1908. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28127/page/2760/data.pdf

So unless there was a significant delay in agreeing the revised design you would have thought he and Ridgeway would have been wearing the new style badge when they entered the Indian Staff College in early 1909.

Having said which the post-1908 design on your latest picture and that worn by officers 3 and 13 don't seem a million miles apart - but oh for some higher resolution images from the Staff College picture to work with

Edit - ignore all that, I see you have revised your posting.

Parking that for the moment - any views on the facial resemblances to the known pictures of Glynton and Ridgeway?

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 17 February , 2023 by PRC

[FROGSMILE]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

Certainly by the time Gerard Maxwell Glynton was gazetted as promoted from Lieutenant to Captain with effect from the 25th January 1908, his unit was shown as 3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles. The relevant gazette was dated April 10, 1908. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28127/page/2760/data.pdf

So unless there was a significant delay in agreeing the revised design you would have thought he and Ridgeway would have been wearing the new style badge when they entered the Indian Staff College in early 1909.

Having said which the post-1908 design on your latest picture and that worn by officers 3 and 13 don't seem a million miles apart - but oh for some higher resolution images from the Staff College picture to work with

Edit - ignore all that, I see you have revised your posting.

Parking that for the moment - any views on the facial resemblances to the known pictures of Glynton and Ridgeway?

Cheers,
Peter

Yes, Peter I think you’ve matched the three photos of Glynton and the two of Ridgeway perfectly.  I was just cautioning about pouch belt badges that are so vital for these regimental IDs when no headdress is being worn.

I’m sorry about the editing causing delay/wasted effort, the key take aways are the changes in unit title and the effect that they have on insignia.  Plus also that pouch belts are not described in dress regulations, whereas all other insignia is.

What troubles me is that the crowns on the pouch belt badge in your images seem quite large even though indistinct, whereas the crowns combined with cyphers that we’ve seen and know to have been worn by 3rd Gurkhas at that time, are smaller.

Edited 18 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

I now see it FROGSMILE. The Jacket that Ridgeway is wearing, is open, has a lower rounded collar and though I can't see it on the picture it only comes down to his waist. Whereas the tunics,  as I know, have the high collar and are down past the waist. Mess dress jacket and Tunic, both having the frogging. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me. I hope to heck I have it else I'll be in the guardroom! ***

Yes that’s right Bob.  Here is the mess dress jacket and vest (waistcoat) of the Central India Horse and the 18th Lancers.

Edited 18 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

13 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes that’s right Bob.  Here is the mess dress jacket and vest (waistcoat) of the Central India Horse and the 18th Lancers.

Thank you FROGSMILE.

Next Officer I am looking at is Digby Inglis Shuttleworth. Later to be Major General Sir Digby Inglis Shuttleworth KCIE CB CBE DSO. He is another '3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles' Officer. From his uniform face shape, size and bearing I am confident that he is number 6 on the 1910 photo. Here is a picture courtesy of the portrait gallery.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All, and Bob.

Brilliant researching! What an iconic group photo.

The latter-day portrait of Maj-Gen Sir Digby Shuttleworth shows an uncanny likeness.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

Thank you FROGSMILE.

Next Officer I am looking at is Digby Inglis Shuttleworth. Later to be Major General Sir Digby Inglis Shuttleworth KCIE CB CBE DSO. He is another '3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles' Officer. From his uniform face shape, size and bearing I am confident that he is number 6 on the 1910 photo. Here is a picture courtesy of the portrait gallery.

Yes I agree, and the pouch belt badge is an appropriate shape too.  That’s definitely a match I think.

[Bob Davies]

36 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I agree, and the pouch belt badge is an appropriate shape too.  That’s definitely a match I think.

It all seems to fit and he was there at this time. One thing that does come to the fore while researching these Officers, is that a lot of them made it up through the ranks over the years. It must have done them good being at the Staff College, well that and their own confidence and capabilities. Thanks @Kimberley John Lindsay a very interesting topic, we have nearly found them all!

Edited 18 February , 2023 by Bob Davies

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

It all seems to fit and he was there at this time. One thing that does come to the fore while researching these Officers, is that a lot of them made it up through the ranks over the years. It must have done them good being at the Staff College, well that and their own confidence and capabilities.

Yes and continuous operational service too, first on the North West Frontier, and then in a World War of national survival…

Edited 18 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

Next Officer is Vire Gordon Menzies. KIA 21st January 1916. 'The story of the 97th Deccan Infantry' can be found here, including a picture of Major Menzies. I have yet to match him to an Officer in the 1910 photograph. Well worth a read and some good  photos.   https://archive.org/details/dli.ministry.06500/mode/2up

[Bob Davies]

Possibly number 52 on facial looks but not uniform context?

[PRC]

10 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Possibly number 52 on facial looks but not uniform context?

52 on the 1910 picture is currently down as "Possibly Eric Fairweather Harrison, Royal Australian Garrison Artillery", also Officer 46 on the 1911 picture.

Of course could be a mis-attribution - it may not be Harrison, but whoever it is I think he is the same Royal Artillery man, which Menzies was clearly not.

Vire Gordon Menzies is the oddity - a 1909 entrant but a 1912 graduate. He could have been there throughout, or he may have had to take the sabbatical, raising the prospect that he could be on both, either, or none of the Staff College pictures.

Will try and take a look later - I'm on cook house duties and I've had a request for an early dinner

Cheers,
Peter

[Bob Davies]

26 minutes ago, PRC said:

Of course could be a mis-attribution - it may not be Harrison, but whoever it is I think he is the same Royal Artillery man, which Menzies was clearly not.

Vire Gordon Menzies is the oddity - a 1909 entrant but a 1912 graduate. He could have been there throughout, or he may have had to take the sabbatical, raising the prospect that he could be on both, either, or none of the Staff College pictures.

Will try and take a look later - I'm on cook house duties and I've had a request for an early dinner

Cheers,
Peter

Sorry to put V G Menzies where some one else is Peter. Menzies is on the 'Unattached list' Harts 1908 so I did wonder about the uniform of number 52 when I posted my attempt at side by side. He is quite young compared to others, being born in 1886. Edit; 97th Deccan uniform is Scarlet with Dark Green Facing.  I hope the Family don't have you on 'pan bash' too!

Edited 18 February , 2023 by Bob Davies

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Sorry to put V G Menzies where some one else is Peter. Menzies is on the 'Unattached list' Harts 1908 so I did wonder about the uniform of number 52 when I posted my attempt at side by side. He is quite young compared to others, being born in 1886. I hope the Family don't have you on 'pan bash' too!

Just to confirm #52 is definitely dressed in a uniform of the RFA/RGA. 

31 minutes ago, PRC said:

52 on the 1910 picture is currently down as "Possibly Eric Fairweather Harrison, Royal Australian Garrison Artillery", also Officer 46 on the 1911 picture.

Of course could be a mis-attribution - it may not be Harrison, but whoever it is I think he is the same Royal Artillery man, which Menzies was clearly not.

Vire Gordon Menzies is the oddity - a 1909 entrant but a 1912 graduate. He could have been there throughout, or he may have had to take the sabbatical, raising the prospect that he could be on both, either, or none of the Staff College pictures.

Will try and take a look later - I'm on cook house duties and I've had a request for an early dinner

Cheers,
Peter

All four pictures are of Harrison I think Peter, very clear likenesses across them all. 

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Sorry to put V G Menzies where some one else is Peter.

Not a problem Bob D. By my reckoning we've got either 85 or 86 faces, (the mysterious Thompson of the 17th Lancers) across two pictures and I can barely keep on top of it by running through the names systematically.

I've looked at the two staff college pictures again, and have to say I've come to the conclusion he isn't present on either. That isn't to say that I don't see a potential match just that I have had to rule them out because:-

• Like Eric Fairweather Harrison we already have a visual identification. I've revisited the panel pictures in each case that I've put up previously, and each time the existing match looks much better than with V.G. Menzies to my eyes; or
• From the collar tabs and sashes they are R.A. or R.E officers; and/or
• They have medals. Given his age I can only assume the picture you have found postdates his time at Quetta. That individual does not appear to be wearing any medal ribbons.

But if others' can see a match and would like me to do a side by side comparison then please shout out

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

Not a problem Bob D. By my reckoning we've got either 85 or 86 faces, (the mysterious Thompson of the 17th Lancers) across two pictures and I can barely keep on top of it by running through the names systematically.

I've looked at the two staff college pictures again, and have to say I've come to the conclusion he isn't present on either. That isn't to say that I don't see a potential match just that I have had to rule them out because:-

• Like Eric Fairweather Harrison we already have a visual identification. I've revisited the panel pictures in each case that I've put up previously, and each time the existing match looks much better than with V.G. Menzies to my eyes; or
• From the collar tabs and sashes they are R.A. or R.E officers; and/or
• They have medals. Given his age I can only assume the picture you have found postdates his time at Quetta. That individual does not appear to be wearing any medal ribbons.

But if others' can see a match and would like me to do a side by side comparison then please shout out

Cheers,
Peter

The significant number of matches you have made so far has been absolutely extraordinary Peter, and you deserve every credit for your skill.  I am finding it a fascinating pair of photographs because as images over a century old, they contain for me a strange and rather tortuous mix of the familiar and the unfamiliar.  The familiar of British ranks and Imperial military uniforms, but the unfamiliar of British-Indian uniforms that are not only more complex (e.g. Type A and Type B for British officers), but also that changed several times in a relatively short space of time.  In part that is because of the substantial reorganisation of the British-Indian Army less than a decade before the photos, but also because the death of the old King and accession of King George V along with anointing him as Emperor, led to wholesale regimental title changes and concomitant alterations in the design of insignia.  A degree of detail was laid down in dress regulations, but whereas British Imperial regulations have subsequently been regularly reprinted for the interest of historians, those of the British-Indian Army have not, as they do not command sufficient interest to make publication (and seeking them out) worthwhile.  This makes piecing the information together challenging, intriguing and frustrating in equal measure.

Edited 18 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

Not a problem Bob D. By my reckoning we've got either 85 or 86 faces, (the mysterious Thompson of the 17th Lancers) across two pictures and I can barely keep on top of it by running through the names systematically.

I am very happy and interested to help in this search Peter. I keep finding bits here and there and get somewhat distracted.... Esme Cosmo William Conway Gordon. Skinners Horse is one of them. On unattached list.  Signed his name on the 1910 pic.  Uniform is blue with yellow facings. Born 1876 Died 31 March 1962. South Africa Medal with 2 clasps. James Atkinson Longridge (also signed his name) West Surrey regt. Orft to my bed now, thanks to all. Regards, Bob.

[PRC]

9 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Thank you FROGSMILE.

Next Officer I am looking at is Digby Inglis Shuttleworth. Later to be Major General Sir Digby Inglis Shuttleworth KCIE CB CBE DSO. He is another '3rd Queen Alexandra's Own Gurkha Rifles' Officer. From his uniform face shape, size and bearing I am confident that he is number 6 on the 1910 photo. Here is a picture courtesy of the portrait gallery.

Just to supplement this, although it does lead me to wonder if Shuttleworth has been correctly identified in the 1919 pictures.

Captain Digby Inglis Shuttleworth (1876-1948), 3rd Q.A.O. Goorkha Rifles.

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

(MiCs for a D.F and D.J. Shuttleworth, Staff Major and Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel)

Picture Sources

1919 at Ekaterinburg. Acccompanying caption Shuttleworth was educated at Bedford School. He commanded the 39th Infantry Brigade in the Caucasus, as well as the 83rd Infantry Brigade of the British "White" Army of the Black Sea, between 1917 and 1919. https://www.facebook.com/333171930118893/posts/major-general-sir-digby-inglis-shuttleworth-kcie-cb-cbe-dso-1876-1948-at-ekateri/2761553313947397/?locale=hi_IN&paipv=0&eav=AfYGi1YvzdO2DB9JiaZdMraTiTERGlrlfuj4JHCpSWDp6S9yxR1oAVJNbTyn_jN8kUc&_rdr

The Imperial War Museum also has three pictures of him at Baku in August 1919 at a meeting with the Shah of Persia but none are great for showing his face – the least worst is reference Q 51659 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205285317

1932 Sir Digby Inglis Shuttleworth, National Portrait Gallery https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw234316/Sir-Digby-Inglis-Shuttleworth?LinkID=mp140942&role=sit&rNo=0

Also see Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digby_Shuttleworth

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

Captain David Campbell Crombie, (1877-1952), 23^rd Cavalry.

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

(MiC for Major David Campbell Crombie, 23^rd Cavalry & 28^th Cavalry, Poona Division.).

My nomination is Officer 29 – physically because of the ears, wavy hair and hair parting, but mainly because of the similarity of the uniform underneath the braid on the picture of him as a Captain in the 23^rd Cavalry. Note neither of the earlier pictures show him with a campaign medal. As far as I can tell the medal ribbons on the Home Guard man are all of the WW1 era.

Picture Sources.

A family history site has two pictures – one of him as a Captain with the 23^rd P.A.V.O. Cavalry, Frontier Force, and the other with the Home Guard. It adds he was born on 19 November 1877 in Shanghai, China. He was the son of David Alexander John Crombie and Mary Forrester Fortune. Colonel David Campbell Crombie CBE was commissioned on 22 January 1898 and was promoted Captain 22 January 1907 serving as a British Officer of the Indian Army in the 23rd Cavalry. He was appointed C.B.E. in the Birthday honours of 1924. He married Thérèse Henrietta Pankhurst, daughter of Walter Pankhurst, on 5 September 1914 in Simla, India. Colonel David Campbell Crombie CBE died on 1 April 1952 in Gatooma Hospital, Southern Rhodesia, at the age of 74.
https://www.sewellgenealogy.com/p143.htm#i9910

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Just to supplement this, although it does lead me to wonder if Shuttleworth has been correctly identified in the 1919 pictures.

Captain Digby Inglis Shuttleworth (1876-1948), 3rd Q.A.O. Goorkha Rifles.

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

(MiCs for a D.F and D.J. Shuttleworth, Staff Major and Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel)

Picture Sources

1919 at Ekaterinburg. Acccompanying caption Shuttleworth was educated at Bedford School. He commanded the 39th Infantry Brigade in the Caucasus, as well as the 83rd Infantry Brigade of the British "White" Army of the Black Sea, between 1917 and 1919. https://www.facebook.com/333171930118893/posts/major-general-sir-digby-inglis-shuttleworth-kcie-cb-cbe-dso-1876-1948-at-ekateri/2761553313947397/?locale=hi_IN&paipv=0&eav=AfYGi1YvzdO2DB9JiaZdMraTiTERGlrlfuj4JHCpSWDp6S9yxR1oAVJNbTyn_jN8kUc&_rdr

The Imperial War Museum also has three pictures of him at Baku in August 1919 at a meeting with the Shah of Persia but none are great for showing his face – the least worst is reference Q 51659 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205285317

1932 Sir Digby Inglis Shuttleworth, National Portrait Gallery https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw234316/Sir-Digby-Inglis-Shuttleworth?LinkID=mp140942&role=sit&rNo=0

Also see Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digby_Shuttleworth

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

I think that the 1909 and 1932 photos are clearly of the same officer, but the two for 1919 are I believe someone else entirely, Peter.

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Captain David Campbell Crombie, (1877-1952), 23^rd Cavalry.

 

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

 

(MiC for Major David Campbell Crombie, 23^rd Cavalry & 28^th Cavalry, Poona Division.).

 

My nomination is Officer 29 – physically because of the ears, wavy hair and hair parting, but mainly because of the similarity of the uniform underneath the braid on the picture of him as a Captain in the 23^rd Cavalry. Note neither of the earlier pictures show him with a campaign medal. As far as I can tell the medal ribbons on the Home Guard man are all of the WW1 era.

 

 

 

Picture Sources.

 

A family history site has two pictures – one of him as a Captain with the 23^rd P.A.V.O. Cavalry, Frontier Force, and the other with the Home Guard. It adds he was born on 19 November 1877 in Shanghai, China. He was the son of David Alexander John Crombie and Mary Forrester Fortune. Colonel David Campbell Crombie CBE was commissioned on 22 January 1898 and was promoted Captain 22 January 1907 serving as a British Officer of the Indian Army in the 23rd Cavalry. He was appointed C.B.E. in the Birthday honours of 1924. He married Thérèse Henrietta Pankhurst, daughter of Walter Pankhurst, on 5 September 1914 in Simla, India. Colonel David Campbell Crombie CBE died on 1 April 1952 in Gatooma Hospital, Southern Rhodesia, at the age of 74.
https://www.sewellgenealogy.com/p143.htm#i9910

 

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

 

All three photos are clearly of the same man so I think you have your ID correct, Peter.

 

Edited 19 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Just to supplement this, although it does lead me to wonder if Shuttleworth has been correctly identified in the 1919 pictures.

I believe that the 1919 pictures are of a different officer. Lack of red tabs. Somewhere along the line someone has miss identified him. This one from the IWM shows  Digby Inglis Shuttleworth as a big man very similar looking to 1910 and 1932 pictures. I think he is in the other pictures but with his back to the camera wearing a pith helmet. This is who I believe him to be IWM link; https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205287842  

Edited 19 February , 2023 by Bob Davies

[Bob Davies]

The Big chap wearing Wolsey helmet, Puttees, baggy cavalry britches and Same Brown belt with his back to the camera I believe is Brigadier General Suttleworth in this picture. Courtesy of IWM.

[PRC]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I think that the 1909 and 1932 photos are clearly of the same officer, but the two for 1919 are I believe someone else entirely,

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

I believe that the 1919 pictures are of a different officer.

No cause to dispute that. When I had just the comparison pictures to consider I couldn't work out if this was a man who had put on weight with age and peacetime soldiering, or someone who had lost weight & bulk during the war and regained it subsequently. Left me totally confused, (not difficult) as to who was the most appropriate candidate from the 1910 Staff College picture but @Bob Davies has come up trumps.

Digby Inglis Shuttleworth version 2.

Middle picture source: IWM reference Q 54863 https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205287842

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 19 February , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[PRC]

If anyone has a copy of “A History of the 26^th Punjabis 1857-1923” by Lieutenant Colonel P.S Stoney, his physical appearance in some of the photographs there might help confirm if the author is the officer identified from the 1910 Staff College picture.

Captain Patrick Sinclair Stoney, (1880-1942), 26^th Punjabis. (MiC as Major P.S Stoney 26^th Punjabi’s).

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

I came across a reference from the London Gazette in 1922 that he was relinquishing the Temporary rank of Lieutenant Colonel of the 2^nd 66^th Punjabis. In fact the unit had been disbanded. A webpage on them throws up some light on the career of that officer.

“The 2^nd Battalion 66^th Punjabis was a short-lived, war-raised Indian infantry battalion formed at Sitapur (Upper Pradesh, India) on 5 October 1918. The Battalion’s commanding officer was Acting Lieutenant-Colonel Patrick Sinclair Stoney who was appointed from the 26^th Punjabis on 27 October 1918. Stomey had first been commissioned in January 1899, serving with the 26^th Punjabis since 1900 and had seen active service on the Mohnmand Expedition in 1908.”

“The Battalion was first inspected on 18 March 1919 by Brigadier-General A. G.Pritchard, Commanding Lucknow Brigade:

‘General remarks: The men carry their arms well and all ranks work steadily and without noise. Colonel Stoney is a staff college and knows how to command;he is well backed up by officers and men and has a good battalion.’ “

https://www.researchingww1.co.uk/2nd-battalion-66th-punjabis

(So the 1910 man we are interested in has at least one medal – if it’s the same man).

Given the low quality of the image I was working from I was torn between Officer 51 and Officer 7 from the 1910 photograph. Officer 51 has a slightly better physical resemblance, but because of the angle he is captured at I can’t tell if he is wearing a medal \ medal ribbon. That switches the balance back to officer 7, but I have to say I’m not sure.

There is a picture of the officers of the 26^th Punjabis at Hong Kong in 1914 where the regiment was stationed, but the style of uniform on display I believe gives no clue as to the uniform the Regiment was wearing in 1909/10. https://www.researchingww1.co.uk/26th-punjabis-1st-battalion

Picture source.

Some of the inside pages of the 26^th Punjabis can be previewed on Amazon. One of the low quality images they make available is of an Officer group at Peshawar, December 1901 that includes a Lieutenant P.S. Stoney. https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-26Th-Punjabis-1857-1923/dp/1845743172

There is another picture of him from 1922 but the preview version is too low a quality to use.
There may be others that are not presented in the selected preview pages.

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 19 February , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, PRC said:

If anyone has a copy of “A History of the 26^th Punjabis 1857-1923” by Lieutenant Colonel P.S Stoney, his physical appearance in some of the photographs there might help confirm if the author is the officer identified from the 1910 Staff College picture.

Captain Patrick Sinclair Stoney, (1880-1942), 26^th Punjabis. (MiC as Major P.S Stoney 26^th Punjabi’s).

1909 entrant & 1911 graduate so should only appear on the 1910 picture.

I came across a reference from the London Gazette in 1922 that he was relinquishing the Temporary rank of Lieutenant Colonel of the 2^nd 66^th Punjabis. In fact the unit had been disbanded. A webpage on them throws up some light on the career of that officer.

“The 2^nd Battalion 66^th Punjabis was a short-lived, war-raised Indian infantry battalion formed at Sitapur (Upper Pradesh, India) on 5 October 1918. The Battalion’s commanding officer was Acting Lieutenant-Colonel Patrick Sinclair Stoney who was appointed from the 26^th Punjabis on 27 October 1918. Stomey had first been commissioned in January 1899, serving with the 26^th Punjabis since 1900 and had seen active service on the Mohnmand Expedition in 1908.”

“The Battalion was first inspected on 18 March 1919 by Brigadier-General A. G.Pritchard, Commanding Lucknow Brigade:

‘General remarks: The men carry their arms well and all ranks work steadily and without noise. Colonel Stoney is a staff college and knows how to command;he is well backed up by officers and men and has a good battalion.’ “

https://www.researchingww1.co.uk/2nd-battalion-66th-punjabis

(So the 1910 man we are interested in has at least one medal – if it’s the same man).

Given the low quality of the image I was working from I was torn between Officer 51 and Officer 7 from the 1910 photograph. Officer 51 has a slightly better physical resemblance, but because of the angle he is captured at I can’t tell if he is wearing a medal \ medal ribbon. That switches the balance back to officer 7, but I have to say I’m not sure.

There is a picture of the officers of the 26^th Punjabis at Hong Kong in 1914 where the regiment was stationed, but the style of uniform on display I believe gives no clue as to the uniform the Regiment was wearing in 1909/10. https://www.researchingww1.co.uk/26th-punjabis-1st-battalion

Picture source.

Some of the inside pages of the 26^th Punjabis can be previewed on Amazon. One of the low quality images they make available is of an Officer group at Peshawar, December 1901 that includes a Lieutenant P.S. Stoney. https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-26Th-Punjabis-1857-1923/dp/1845743172

There is another picture of him from 1922 but the preview version is too low a quality to use.
There may be others that are not presented in the selected preview pages.

(No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owners).

Cheers,
Peter

There’s no doubt of the identity of the two officers painstakingly established by you and Bob and I support the conclusions that you have reached.  The British officers Type A uniform and the pouch belt plate and pouch badge of the 26th Punjabis over that period can be seen below.  The colour of the uniform was drab with red facings.  This drab/red combination was favoured by several regiments and the colour image shows just one example.

 

Edited 19 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE