Poppies at The Tower of London

[MelPack]

There was a nice little item on the ITN News last night that featured Maureen Simpson whose grandfather, Pte. John Brameld, was one of the successfully identified BL15 buried at Y Farm Cemetery, Bois Grenier, last week.

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-10-31/grieving-families-unite-in-field-of-remembrance/

[Pighills]

From another fourum I frequent:

"They have mood lighting on until 11pm and it's gorgeous"

HTH Alan?

[AlanCurragh]

From another fourum I frequent:

"They have mood lighting on until 11pm and it's gorgeous"

HTH Alan?

It does help, thanks Kim

[trajan]

And here's a rejoinder to Jones' criticism -

"Designer: Tower of London poppies are tribute to human cost of WWI: Tom Piper defends first world war artwork as ‘about loss and commemoration’ after Guardian critic attacks it as fake" - http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/01/designer-tower-london-poppies-wwi-tom-piper

[Phil Wood]

I was in London in mid October and popped along to see the installation - nice day, huge crowds, but it was easy enough to get good views. However, I was disappointed I hadn't visited earlier, as they near completion the almost uniform red of the moat isn't as impressive as it was when there was more grass on display. Somehow it looked to be flowing when there was more grass to fill, now it looks more static, less impressive somehow.

What did strike me was that thousands were there to see this 'memorial', but my wife and I were the only ones in the Tower Hill Memorial 50 yards away.

[Courgette]

Details of the Armistice Day final ceremony at Tower of London:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/TowerOfLondon/WhatsOn/TowerOfLondon/WhatsOn/11November

[Pighills]

Thanks for the link, Courgette. Oh how I wish we'd organised to be there Monday and Tuesday instead of Sunday and Monday

[Moonraker]

A petition has been launched to keep the project going for up to another year. But on Radio Four's "PM" programme Steve Robbins was far less ambitious. One listener wondered if the poppies could endure a British winter. I gather volunteers have already been mustered to dismantle the project from November 12, and I imagine that all those purchasers won't want to wait too long to take delivery of their poppies. Perhaps the ordering process indicated when they might expect to receive them, which might be taken as a form of contract.

Moonraker

[Pighills]

The emails said they would be dispatched as soon as possible, hopefully by Christmas, but could be up to January/February.

I hear Boris has asked for the date to be extended by one week. As volunteers have been organised to remove them up to at least 20th November it sems people do have more time to view them. Maybe not in their full glory, but it's seeing them and remembering which matters, surely?

[Seadog]

Government announces that VAT on the poppies will be waived. An addition sum of £1 - £2 million will go to the charities involved this is excellent news.

Daily Mail – Who first published the story

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2823368/Military-charities-1m-boost-Osborne-waives-VAT-Tower-London-poppy-sale.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Norman

PS

I understand that the equivalent sum of net VAT will be paid to the Government in respect of the poppies then repaid to the charities directly from the fund containing the huge fines imposed on the banks for their part in the LIBOR scandal which appears to be a very appropriate course on action.

[gem22]

_{I was in London yesterday for a meeting and made sure I arrived early enough to visit the display; it was most impressive but the area was very crowded. I went back again after the meeting, about 6pm, and the crowd had thinned out considerably but the poppies, if anything, looked even better in the low light. If you haven't been then I recommend an evening visit rather than daytime.}

_{As for keeping the display on longer even Mad Boris is trying to get in on the act. What he is ignoring is the fact that after Armistice Day the poppies become the rightful property of those who were able to purchase them and I would imagine they would have a claim under the 'Sale of Goods Act' if the Poppies are not delivered within the time frame set out when the order was placed. Obviously making allowance for the removal. cleaning, packing and posting.}

_Garth

[Moonraker]

For the sake of cross-referral: we are also discussing the VAT aspect

here

which means that sooner or later I'll post a reply in one thread to a comment made in the other!

Moonraker

[Old Tom]

According to the Times today, re Boris Johnson's suggestion of extending the time the poppy field remain, Historic Royal Palaces have said ' The transience of the installation is key to the artistic concept'. I was surprised that the poppy field was an artistic concept. Am I alone in thinking what a load of b******s

Old Tom

[MartH]

According to the Times today, re Boris Johnson's suggestion of extending the time the poppy field remain, Historic Royal Palaces have said ' The transience of the installation is key to the artistic concept'. I was surprised that the poppy field was an artistic concept. Am I alone in thinking what a load of b******s

Old Tom

No your not.

[ackimzey]

CBS aired a feature this morning on the Poppies project. An aerial view was most impressive and the last post was included. I have appreciated all the pictures posted in this thread and the views on the television gave me a really good look. My daughter and I toured the Tower a few years ago so I had some idea of the layout of the display. I think it is a breath-taking tribute.

Ann

[m0rris]

A bit of a a squeeze getting through the tube station, but well worth it. I would have liked to have been able to see them at ground level for additional atmosphere.

[stevem49]

I shall be suing Boris and anyone else who keeps my poppy after 12th November. They are personal property, not owned by the Tower, Boris or anyone else who wants to sign a petition

[kenf48]

Great interview on Channel 4 News with the ceramicist Paul Cummins who made the observation that the intention was that every poppy represented a soldier and had been bought by a family member or someone with a connection and was in effect 'returning home'. Its removal also emphasised the transient nature of the war and the void that was left for so many at the end.

But then he was only the artist and no doubt some will consider his thoughts to be a a load...

The interview is at the bottom of this page http://www.channel4.com/news/tower-of-lonon-poppies-stay-or-go-art-hennessey-cummins-first-world-war

Ken

[Steven Broomfield]

Tonight's Standard http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tower-of-london-poppies-david-cameron-leads-calls-for-display-to-stay-for-longer-9843611.html

Could I also add that the comments about the Mayor of London in Post 186 are particularly offensive and unnecessary.

[Dragon]

The inherent transience of the poppy installation is predicated on its planned final poignant moment when the last poppy is placed on 11th. Keeping it any longer is like having your Christmas tree still up in February: it destroys the special significance attached to its completion.

Gwyn

[NigelS]

According to the Times today, re Boris Johnson's suggestion of extending the time the poppy field remain, Historic Royal Palaces have said ' The transience of the installation is key to the artistic concept'. I was surprised that the poppy field was an artistic concept. Am I alone in thinking what a load of b******s

Old Tom

The inherent transience of the poppy installation is predicated on its planned final poignant moment when the last poppy is placed on 11th. Keeping it any longer is like having your Christmas tree still up in February: it destroys the special significance attached to its completion.

Gwyn

It's a pity the artist didn't consider ( or possibly be permitted ) for the installation to continue for the full duration of the centenary with the placement of the final poppy immediately before 11 o'clock on the 11th November 2018; it would have given it even greater significance and poignancy. The war, which wasn't over in time for Christmas 1914, was a little less transient than the installation's artistic concept which will allow it to be done and dusted by Christmas 2014.

NigelS

[Seadog]

Ebay and the poppies, that close-up is not very flattering of these artworks with great thick petals it frankly does not look much like a poppy and I bet these will chip and crack the moment they are received by the purchasers and at £30.95 (UK price) per artwork that is going to be very annoying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2823624/Ebay-bans-people-trying-sell-Tower-London-ceramic-poppies.html

Well done ebay still with over 800,000 soon available the price would have plummeted anyway!

Norman

PS Ian there is no way these would have survived intact for the period you suggest

[CGM]

I'm not sure attempting a display which would last until 2018, and look anything like the poppies as they look now, could possibly work.

Although I find the thought very appealing.

For the installation to continue right through the length of the war would have required a totally different approach which would cost a huge amount more than this has cost and would probably have made it impossible to offer the poppies for sale at the end and therefore produced no money for the charities.

When we visited about 3 weeks ago, we could see that the grass was starting to grow back in places. Hopefully it won't be tall enough to detract from the overall effect on the 11th November. A more permanent display would probably have to be on permanent hard-standing and the whole poignant effect of the poppies growing in grass would be lost.

Also, where some of the poppies had lost their black centres, we could see staining which looked like rust from the stem (?). If so, the cost of rust-proof stems would add very considerably to the cost.

The poppies are very close together and squeezing through to pick out litter or replace damaged poppies would be very difficult.

Over the years I suspect the whole display would deteriorate to such an extent that not even regular gentle hose-downs to flush away dust, detritis and bird-droppings would keep it looking beautiful.

Just my thoughts.

CGM

[Dragon]

It's a pity the artist didn't consider ( or possibly be permitted ) for the installation to continue for the full duration of the centenary with the placement of the final poppy immediately before 11 o'clock on the 11th November 2018; it would have given it even greater significance and poignancy. The war, which wasn't over in time for Christmas 1914, was a little less transient than the installation's artistic concept which will allow it to be done and dusted by Christmas 2014.

So it would be come a tourist attraction just like so many other things connected with the Great War. Didn't Boris Johnson describe it as a 'visitor attraction'? I suppose that means it sells London to the world. It's a pity politicians didn't think about the possibility of extending the viewing time when the installation was in the planning stage: it seems to have just occurred to them. It's marking the Centenary of the start, not the entire war. It's on a countdown and been there for a while so if people missed it, that's their planning at fault. Tough.

Fragmented poppies, rusty stems, unmown grass, accumulated debris which blows round cities, all its power and magnificence lost. How demeaning.

Gwyn

[NigelS]

Don't disagree with the comments on longevity etc, but wouldn't the concept of placing a poppy for each life lost have been more valid if it had marked the end of the war rather than the start?

I should add that I have no complaints about its stunning appearance, certainly worthy of the centennial.

NigelS