Poppies at The Tower of London

[Seadog]

Your efforts to remove VAT are going to be well appreciated by the original investors.

That is an interesting comment perhaps you can explain just what you mean as I have not suggested that this project is exempted from VAT but that the Government consider refunding the VAT windfall directly to the charities as explained in my last post. Finally I do not flatter myself that I am the only one to raise this situation, there are others involved.

Norman

[towisuk]

Your efforts to remove VAT are going to be well appreciated by the original investors.

Investors???? Oh!!! so thIs is a business making money out of remembrance.......when the BBC covered this project in the news there was no mention of investors using it to make money for themselves....

regards

Tom

[auchonvillerssomme]

Yes there are investors, they are not quite telling the truth when they say that the net proceeds will be donated to charity. It means the net proceeds after the money has been distributed to private investors.

This is a quote from the media;

'... tracked down one of the private financiers who lent money to help set up the project, Ben Whitfield, and put it to him that he was making an estimated profit of more than a million pounds.

Speaking from his home in the Alps, he said: ‘Yeah, well, I don’t think I’ve got any comment actually.’

And yesterday, the Tower of London repeatedly refused to rule out that somebody was profiting from the display, nor could it offer any assurance that profits being made by private investors were ‘fair and proportionate’.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Just £8.75 from each poppy will reach the six charities, according to official internal estimates, while £12.08 will cover ‘costs’ the costs are evidently 4 times what it costs to make the poppy. So the investors make over £8 x 888,246. A cool 7 million quid.

[Moonraker]

... And yesterday, the Tower of London repeatedly refused to rule out that somebody was profiting from the display, nor could it offer any assurance that profits being made by private investors were ‘fair and proportionate’.

Which raises the question: what would be a "fair and proportionate" return?

I wouldn't argue against 10% being reasonable.

Moonraker

[towisuk]

It's a disgrace...!!!

Good God that really is dancing on the graves of the fallen... how big a trough do we have to build so that all the snouts can get in????

regards

Tom

[Mike763222]

Profiteering, of course, is a well established by-product of war.

I've not read all of the posts on this topic, so apologies if it's already been said. Someone posed the question of the Tower's connection with WW1. One springs to mind. It is where a number of German spies were executed by firing squad.

It's not called the 'Bloody Tower' for nothing...

Mike

[Seadog]

Some further information on the poppies was contained in a letter printed in the Daily Mail on the 19th September from a volunteer trying to justify the costs in an earlier Daily Mail report. Here are the salient points:-

Actual planting requires a metal stalk in three different sizes, two rubber washers and two plastic cylinders also in different sizes. All of the volunteers have a T-Shirt to identify them plus industrial gloves, protection goggles and bottled water. The poppies are fragile and some are broken on delivery and some on installation. After November 11th 2014 all the poppies will be removed by volunteers and sent back to the factory to be washed, re-stalked and packaged before being sent out to the people who have thought this to be a worthy cause.

Points

The fragility of the poppies must be of concern to those who will pay £25 each plus UK postage of £5.95 or EU £15.95 and the rest of the World £17.95

I assume that the volunteers are unpaid

FAQS

http://poppies.hrp.org.uk/faq

Added

Just an observation based on the comments from the volunteer, as I understand it the volunteers “plant” all the poppies for nothing then remove all the poppies again for nothing. Following the poppies being ”restalked” and washed I wonder who is going to pack and dispatch the thousands sold by November 11th 2014, surely not the unpaid volunteers again

Norman

[Steven Broomfield]

The fragility of the poppies must be of concern to those who will pay £25 each plus if required UK postage of £5.95 or EU £15.95 and the rest of the World £17.95

Box. Bubble wrap. I'll let you know when mine arrives.

[auchonvillerssomme]

_{I can't wait to see the picture of you wearing it.}

[PBI]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2754319/Just-Tower-poppy-cash-going-help-heroes-So-WILL-pocketing-rest.html

[Steven Broomfield]

So the businessmen who took a sizeable risk in funding this project shouldn't make a profit? Let's look at it another way - several charities will be sharing a few million quid for nothing, while a few businessmen who took the financial risk make a few million quid as a reward.

I fail to see the problem. I really do: it's called capitalism. Presumably the businessmen will also be paying tax on their windfall, so, in reality, we're all winners.

Do stop whingeing. If the charities concerned aren't complaining (and why should they - they're getting something for nothing), why is the Fail getting so hot under the collar?

[Pighills]

I don't see a problem with this either. I woukdn't drop £8 + into a poppy or other charity tin so any charity which does receive this money is doing damn well out if me. That being said, it won't stop me contributing a few more pounds come poppy time either.

On another note. With regards to the duplicated emails upon purchase, I see the money has been taken, thankfully only once though

[Merlybobs]

My family has splashed out some money on buying some of these poppies in remembrance of

Pte. Arthur Verrall

Pte. Matthew Wake

Sgt. John Hartley.

May they forever be remembered, it is a touching thing to do and utterly beautiful.

[PBI]

What I personally find distasteful is the lack of Transparency by the Founders of the Poppy Project and the Tower of Londons being economical with the truth.When this project first started there was no mention of Big Business being involved,the Project was itself misrepresented by the Blurb which suggested that all the Monies raised would go to Charites.My Mother is 88 and she paid for 3 of these Poppies..She is suitably unimpressed by these revelations.

[spconnolly007]

I fail to see the problem. I really do: it's called capitalism. Presumably the businessmen will also be paying tax on their windfall, so, in reality, we're all winners.

I thought it was supposed to be called CHARITY. It may have been more palatable if those risk-taking businessmen had agreed to take a resonable return on their investment 'if' the venture proved profitable?Just a thought.

Regards,

Sean.

[Steven Broomfield]

Define "Reasonable Return".

Or better still, WHO defines "Reasonable return"?

[towisuk]

"Or better still, WHO defines "Reasonable return"?"...

People with enough intelligence that know a rip-off when they see it..!!!!

Tom

[spconnolly007]

WHO defines "Reasonable return"?

I would like to think, the investors. Knowing full well that they were partaking in an investment that would ultimately help a number of charities (i haven't a clue who they are by the way) you would have thought it good business sense to show a modicum of charity when collecting your profit? Having said that, I have not read the DM article as I have far better things to do in life than wasting one minute of it finding out what 'their take' is on the issue. I have bought a poppie and look forward to owning it in due course, but I have to admit I was slightly disappointed once I realised the actual % of the sale going to charity. Had I read the small print, would I have continued with the purchase? Probably. Thats capitalism for you

[towisuk]

I'm sure the almost 900,000 British soldiers who died in the Great War would be proud of the fact that some capitalist is making money out of their deaths.....it's a good way to honour them by lining someones pockets.....

Tom

[PBI]

Agree 100% with you Tom

[Steven Broomfield]

I'm sure the almost 900,000 British soldiers who died in the Great War would be proud of the fact that some capitalist is making money out of their deaths.....it's a good way to honour them by lining someones pockets.....

Tom

Well, they made money out of them during the war ...

[maxi]

So the businessmen who took a sizeable risk in funding this project shouldn't make a profit? Let's look at it another way - several charities will be sharing a few million quid for nothing, while a few businessmen who took the financial risk make a few million quid as a reward.

I fail to see the problem. I really do: it's called capitalism. Presumably the businessmen will also be paying tax on their windfall, so, in reality, we're all winners.

Do stop whingeing. If the charities concerned aren't complaining (and why should they - they're getting something for nothing), why is the Fail getting so hot under the collar?

Precisely!

I was of the impression that the poppy that I have purchased will have been part of an art installation not a charitable work. The fact that certain charities are to receive a donation is an added bonus and not the reason for my purchase.

Maxi

[Merlybobs]

Oh let's not be sourbags and ruin this beautiful act of remembrance by whining about who the money goes to.

Most of the men would be turning in their graves if they thought that people would remember the poppies at the tower for their profit, and not those valiant heroes' sacrifices. I bought three poppies and I could not be less bothered concerning which percentage of the money is going north, south, east or west. I got them to remember my boys, and no businessman's pocket profit should (or will) overshadow this.

Thank you.

[Seadog]

A small clarification regarding VAT, I believe that as the poppies are standard-rated for VAT then the postage and packing will also be standard-rated therefore the VAT payable on a delivered poppy in the UK will be 20% of £30.95 (Inc p&p) = £6.19. Should for example 500,000 poppies be sold this will bring the government a windfall on the revenue from the sales of £3,095,000 better known as a “nice little earner”. I have also had confirmation today that the question of VAT on the poppies will be raised with Government Ministers in October.

:

Those of you considering the financial aspects of this project should also bear in mind that the estimated gross £1.46 each charity receives per poppy sold will of course be reduced by the charities admin fees, salaries etc and as an example one of the charities in the scheme will net about 95 pence to fund their actual causes from the £25 cost of a poppy.,