ss002d6252 Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 and my last post froze on me when I tried to put it up then I was bombed out of the forum not knowing whether it had hit or not... Same intermittent problems here. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 I've had another run through the Times, but as Craig said, the OCR is not the best. The entries I have to date are: 3rd Sept 1914 - appears on Officers Killed list 17th Seot 1914 - article "The Pen & the Sword - A Soldier's Message from the Grave" 18th Sept 1914 - short article "Safety of Major Yate". (Recognises he is now a PoW) 20th Sept 1914 - Unofficially recorded as PoW 21st Sept 1914 - Repeat of above 29th Sept 1914 - notice posted by Mrs Yate thanking for support and states her husband is wounded and a PoW 26th Nov 1914 - VC announcement in which he is stared to have since died in captivity In addition, I have found In Memoriam notices on the following dates (but there may well be more): 20th Sept 1919 20th Oct 1920 20th Sept 1922 Phil PS Looks like Craig is quicker than me, but at least we can compare two searches to see how consistent the Times is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 It seems to be a problem with all online newspaper archives and not just UK ones either so I have been searching the overseas ones issue by issue which I expect you did too Phil. I have fully monty with The Scotsman and it is exactly the same, the OCR is totally unreliable. Now I have a tad more work to do on that Word Doc for newspaper articles so I had better get cracking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 A fine days/evenings work on the newspapers and thanks to everyone for their translations and submissions! Craig and Phil - I've compared your Times entries and they both tally so I don't think you guys have missed anything. Here is the updated Word Document which you have kept my fingers busy with this evening! The German written publications remain in red and I have inserted The Times where appropriate too. NEWSPAPER ARTICLES.docx It has given me a break from the Hermanns! I will post that list of newspapers next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 Because of the file size I will have to post the list in two separate posts. I will also explain that this list is from a post war book Kreigs Gefangene Volker published 1921. These are just some of the newspapers allowed for the POWs in German camps, I'm sure they were thrilled to bits. They were probably selected because of their propaganda qualities. Also, number 4 on the list is one that Phil has searched previously and located articles (see the Word Doc.) I don't know if any archives exist for these papers: Second part of the list here: Edit: whoohoo it put them in one post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 I'm going to call it a night on Major Yate - I'm sick of arm wrestling my cat for control of the keyboard! Back tomorrow with a fresh pair of eyes and hopefully, no cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 5 July , 2014 Share Posted 5 July , 2014 No Yate picture, that I can see on initial flick through, but an illustrated paper that is online and downloadable: http://diglit.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/feldztgdaheim1914 I did come across one that I think has IR 73 at Liege in September (page 339 of the PDF). I've also been right through the ZEFYS catalogue again tonight. I recognise a few of the titles on the list and some are on the ZEFYS list, but unfortunately not all issues are available digitally. Anyone fancy trawling through this catalogue: http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/suche/?DC=krieg.1914.1918 That's me finished for the night as well. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 July , 2014 Share Posted 6 July , 2014 I'll see how the day goes as I have various odds and sods to do, but I will try (no promises!) to get some of the Berlin Archiv done. Lots of excellent work being done by all, and I think we all deserve a pat on the back! By the way, I know what you mean about mixed results from searching... How did I find that Charlotte article? I was using Google Deutschland trying for ALICE YATE, and that was the only thing that cropped up! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 I always tend to forget that my wife's forebears probably fought for the other side, as in fact, despite her parents being Polish in modern terms, they were from Galicia. Some time ago, before I reformatted my computer and lost my bookmarks, I had a link to a website that had photos of WW1 memorials from the towns and villages in that area. Phil A bit of a mixed day yesterday. I was bitten on the hand by a vole. I wouldn't mind but I was in the process of rescuing it at the time! I have found an FO file on Major Yate as well as Lt.Col. Bond at TNA. I might also have something for that image being published in UK but it will take some plodding on it's not searchable but has an index in which Major Yate is mentioned 3 times (unfortunately the index and paging do not correlate in any way, shape or form) with nearly 8000 pages to go through, I managed about 700 yesterday. The first mention of him and the page he should have been - 60 pages missing, including the page he would be on. However, I found some pages dumped into the middle of other places and that's why I am having to go through it page by page. Tons of stuff and photos on/of Galacia, Polish cavalry units and Austrians fighting there so quite possibly Sudarmee - I've made a note of those pages and will revisit them when I've finished searching for the man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 GOT HIM!!The Great War Magazine - I have the issue and page number (Part 4 pages 373 and 384) I just need to work out when Part 4 was published but I think it will be around the first quarter of 1915. I didn't think they would publish it so soon in Britain - wrong again! The section seems to have been devoted to VC winners to date and goes back retrospectively. Major Yate is mentioned in the text on page 373 and the image is shown on page 384. I will also try and locate the earlier entry that appears to be amongst missing pages. Here courtesy of Ancestry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 By golly gosh so you do! I was just off to bed and saw this! Time to open a bottle instead and lift a glass in your direction! Seaforths, your persistence has paid off on that one - now all that is needed is (a), where it was 'recently published' as referenced in those post-VC gazette reports and ( , the real bu**er, where was that photo taken from! Glass now raised - and sherifye! raises all sorts of questions though - he died in 1914 and if this is 1915...??? JB PS: Did a quick double check, and yes this is the same as the not-so-cropped photo I showed in the locked thread at: #2087601Capture of Major Yate Posted by TRAJAN on 12 May 2014 - 10:16 AM in Uniforms & Cap Badges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 I'm off to pour myself a strong one now!! It is Vol. 4, Part 62 Published 23 October 1915. Now hopefully, some success as to finding their source! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 I'm off to pour myself a strong one now!! It is Vol. 4, Part 62 Published 23 October 1915. Now hopefully, some success as to finding their source! Make it two on my bill when I get to the UK - when leaving the UK for home, if funds are flush, I alternate between Laphroaig and one of the younger Macallans... I tried 'Ankara Viskey' once, but 'nuff said on that... Really, well done! JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 Well done Marjorie. Just think, if you hadn't been bitten by the vole, it may never have happened. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 I was starting to think that picture was just a figment of collective imagination. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 Well done Marjorie. Just think, if you hadn't been bitten by the vole, it may never have happened. Phil I did need something to take my mind off pondering whether vowels voles carried rabies I was starting to think that picture was just a figment of collective imagination. Craig It was certainly starting to feel that way...I'm going to try and find their other article on him. It was published earlier Vol 2 page 45 but there is a chunk of pages missing from that volume including that one. However, I think they might be there but not where they should be. And thanks to Trajan who prodded me over the VCs again. Given the time it was published and the information from other press articles, it still remains a very strange caption... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 7 July , 2014 Share Posted 7 July , 2014 From what I can make out, with no help from the Ancestry website, the magazine is "The Great War - The Standard History Of The All Europe Conflict - Edited by H W Wilson". If so, it was published by Amalgamated Press, part of the Northcliffe stable. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 (edited) I hope I'm not missing or duplicating something here as I have just read this thread for the first time, but that picture appears as a full page with similar but not identical caption on p 358 of Book 1 of The War Illustrated, edited by J.A. Hammerton, published by The Amalgamated Press Ltd, London, for week ending 28th November 1914. EDIT Wikipedia account of the magazine here. The artist's signature in the bottom right-hand corner is John F Campbell. EDIT I don't know anything about Campbell but there is some more of his work here: http://www.bridgemanimages.com/en-US/search/artist/37213/campbell-john-f-fl-c-1914#close On p 367 of Book 1, for week ending 5th December 1914, Major Yate is named among the 'New Heroes of the Victoria Cross', with a small portrait photograph. He isn't identified with the earlier picture. I can scan these entries later, if you like. Liz Edited 9 July , 2014 by Liz in Eastbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 I hope I'm not missing or duplicating something here as I have just read this thread for the first time, but that picture appears as a full page with similar but not identical caption on p 358 of Book 1 of The War Illustrated, edited by J.A. Hammerton, published by The Amalgamated Press Ltd, London, for week ending 28th November 1914. EDIT Wikipedia account of the magazine here. The artist's signature in the bottom right-hand corner is John F Campbell. EDIT I don't know anything about Campbell but there is some more of his work here: http://www.bridgemanimages.com/en-US/search/artist/37213/campbell-john-f-fl-c-1914#close On p 367 of Book 1, for week ending 5th December 1914, Major Yate is named among the 'New Heroes of the Victoria Cross', with a small portrait photograph. He isn't identified with the earlier picture. I can scan these entries later, if you like. Liz Thanks for this Liz, coincidentally, I was searching the same publication last night, at least, I think it was (searched so many now my head is addling) and I got three hits for him across the 10 volumes and two of those had pictures but I didn't see the capture image. Unless I'm muddling it with another publication. I will check when I get on the PC in a little while. Great to know others are looking too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 I hope I'm not missing or duplicating something here as I have just read this thread for the first time, but that picture appears as a full page with similar but not identical caption on p 358 of Book 1 of The War Illustrated, edited by J.A. Hammerton, published by The Amalgamated Press Ltd, London, for week ending 28th November 1914.... On p 367 of Book 1, for week ending 5th December 1914, Major Yate is named among the 'New Heroes of the Victoria Cross', with a small portrait photograph. Thanks for this Liz... Great to know others are looking too! Yes, thank Liz! This is an all-hands to the search operation, and so all and any help greatly appreciated! I take it that by the Campbell picture you mean the officer carrying the wounded German back to the trench - OFFTopic, I know, but any idea who he is supposed to be? I may have missed it as I only gave the non-Yate stuff a cursory glance... Trajan EDIT PS: Thanks for that Bridgeman link, Liz - which led me via the search engine to: IMAGE number: STC412053 Title: Major C.A.L. Yate leading the nineteen survivors of his company in a charge at the Battle of Le Cateau (litho), Creator Bagdatopoulos, William Spencer (1888-1965) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 These are the hits I got for 'The War Illustrated' (courtesy archives.org)Vol.1 p.319, Vol.1 p.346 and Vol.6 p.2089 respectively. Have I missed 'that picture' in this publication?? I'm a bit confused now (I know, I know - not hard ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 These are the hits I got for 'The War Illustrated' (courtesy archives.org) .......................................... Vol.1 p.319, Vol.1 p.346 and Vol.6 p.2089 respectively. Have I missed 'that picture' in this publication?? I'm a bit confused now (I know, I know - not hard ) Yes, but the confusing thing is your page numbering is different from mine and the text is different. I am using an ancient bound copy, the first of eight lent to me by a friend, in which the VC winners with those same pictures are on p 357, and the title is 'New Heroes of the Victoria Cross'. i hadn't seen the other two - what are the dates? Then I can look for them. As I said, in my copy of Vol 1 the Campbell picture of an unknown officer who won a posthumous VC was in the previous issue to the VC report including Yates. Could it be that the online edition is a later version - that there were several bound editions? There's no date on this one but the text sounds authentically of the date of the magazine, not subsequently edited. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Reading the account above of the Yorkshire Light Infantry with the two VCs, Yate and Lance-Corporal Holmes, it looks as if Holmes's heroic act might have been ascribed to an officer in 'that picture' for pictorial and myth-making purposes. The text says 'the British officer' got the VC after his death but doesn't mention the regiment or the action - still, the VC and the date limit the possibilities. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Yes, but the confusing thing is your page numbering is different from mine and the text is different. I am using an ancient bound copy, the first of eight lent to me by a friend, in which the VC winners with those same pictures are on p 357, and the title is 'New Heroes of the Victoria Cross'. i hadn't seen the other two - what are the dates? Then I can look for them. As I said, in my copy of Vol 1 the Campbell picture of an unknown officer who won a posthumous VC was in the previous issue to the VC report including Yates. Could it be that the online edition is a later version - that there were several bound editions? There's no date on this one but the text sounds authentically of the date of the magazine, not subsequently edited. Liz Ahh yes, very confusing and so not just me. I went to the page where you said 'that picture' appears on page 358 but I just have a list on that page and the list continues on the subsequent pages to the end of the book. To confusing things even more, there is no date for these pages nor does it indicate they were released in separate dated issues. It starts at Volume 1 and the last book is Volume 10 and so the pages and volumes I quoted correspond to that. These seem to be bound volumes, unlike the ones you have access to and I wonder if they produced these 10 bound volumes later and edited and messed around with the content. In doing that it could be that they have omitted 'that picture' but if they have shown it - it would be great to see a scan of it with a different caption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 9 July , 2014 Share Posted 9 July , 2014 Sorry Liz, we must have crossed posts. The page I posted #185 and the previous quoted articles in post #162, well, I think you can see the heroic tale growing and gathering momentum. I was going to leave his VC on the back-burner for a little while but now I'm on it again, I might as well continue to conclude the issue. More to come later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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