Capture of Major Yate

[seaforth78]

The chap on the extreme left at 14:24-25 in the film - distinctive long nose and moustache - is wearing a Prussian centenary medal and is the same chap who appears on the right of a photograph taken at Liege with one of his colleagues and a seated officer, and the seated officer in that photograph is shown with to his his left our moustachioed 'hero' with the wonky tunic button who appears in the Yate capture photograph and at 14:24-25 in the film

Bavarians in Liege1.JPG Bavarians in Liege2A.JPG bavarians in liege major yateA.JPG

(The first two photographs were both downloaded from the original and now locked Yate thread, but seem to have gone now. The second of the two is a Drake Goodman photograph, the first is also, I believe, but if not, I would greatly appreciate being corrected. The third photograph is in the public domain)

Trajan

P.B., that is incredibly well-spotted by you, and many thanks for posting it! The Seaforths will be even more pleased than me.

Well done Trajan with your extraordinary detective work! My word, that mustachioed chap seems to have been everywhere hadn't he?? I wonder if Yate is holding a field cup to drink from.....He's has his bios under his arm, why here in this situation is very odd.....

[seaforths]

I'm sorry.....RIP in peace Maya....

Thank you. It was a rough few weeks...I had to make the call, when the time was right for her and her twinnie will look after her now. Thanks for the comments and your return to the thread.

Trajan's earlier comments on Red Cross and location are interesting. Going back much earlier, I posted the routes of transit for many of the officers. A march to Cambrai or Mons seemed to be what was happening. Liege only mentioned as being in ruins as their trains passed through. There were many Red Cross operating of different nationalities in Belgium at the time. Some of the Belgian Red Cross were arrested along with a British Red Cross man and accused of being spies. The British man was sent to Torgau along with the British Officers. In fact, he wrote a book about his experiences. The German Red Cross had a different way of working as compared to the British and indeed seem to be seen as part of their army and their men working at the front lines. The same German Officer wore two hats. He was in charge of the fate and negotiating terms with regard to the treatment of POWs and he also headed operations with regard to German Red Cross. He represented the German interests at the Red Cross conferences that took place during the war and at the conferences regarding POWs where the British were represented by the Foreign Office he was there again, heading the German negotiations.

I'm still pondering on whether the two clips are related. That the crease at the bottom of the final frame on the first clip appears on the first frame of the one that follows could have been down to the reasons I stated earlier. However, I am also looking closely at this man and trying to improve on these images:

Apologies for the poor quality but a quick crop on the iPad...is it the same man? Are they different men but the same unit? In the first clip, his epaulettes are not rolled back...just a few of my thoughts.

Edit: typo corrected

[trajan]

I'm hoping this will work. I'm not having much luck via photobucket...Any thoughts on these two particular clips being related???

God bless you Paul, you made us Seaforths's extremely happy and I am just delighted that you were able to unearth this heavenly gift for all of us to see and appreciate. I can't thank you enough!

Out of interest, and even though Yate's back is to us, it seems he's on good terms with his captors and being a German speaker no doubt helped things in great contrast to his well known photograph in a sulking mood. Oh how God I wished we could get a front view of him. Interestingly, the Germans, as confirmed in his capture photo, shows him with his Christmas tree complete with bios. Shabash Paul!

I'm still pondering on whether the two clips are related. That the crease at the bottom of the final frame on the first clip appears on the first frame of the one that follows could have been down to the reasons I stated earlier. However, I am also looking closely at this man and trying to improve on these images: ... Apologies for the poor quality but a quick crop on the iPad...is it the same man? Are they different men but the same unit? In the first clip, his epaulettes are not rolled back...just a few of my thoughts.

Seaforths,

That's some brilliant editing - thanks!

I can see the problems you are having - cutting and splicing, plus the camera man having to wind up again and again... One reason I thought matron might be connected with the Yate section was the presence of those chappies in the dark uniforms and forage caps in the background - aren't the POW's also? But is so, which/what army? Also, the pickelhaube chappie - I think it is 29: if so, then with the 16th Division, and according to Wiki German, "24.08.1914 - 29.08.1914: Schlacht an der Maas"...

Seaforth 78: Looking back at the film, though, I do think he is trying to avoid being filmed - but somebody got a photograph at the same time. Perhaps that's why he turned around when the film chappie came along? Either way (joke) I don't think we can identify the location from the roof line/windows/cobbles/whatever (delete as appropriate) in this film clip!

Wouldn't swear to those two guys being the same...

Julian

[seaforths]

Seaforths,

That's some brilliant editing - thanks!

I can see the problems you are having - cutting and splicing, plus the camera man having to wind up again and again... One reason I thought matron might be connected with the Yate section was the presence of those chappies in the dark uniforms and forage caps in the background - aren't the POW's also? But is so, which/what army? Also, the pickelhaube chappie - I think it is 29: if so, then with the 16th Division, and according to Wiki German, "24.08.1914 - 29.08.1914: Schlacht an der Maas"...

Seaforth 78: Looking back at the film, though, I do think he is trying to avoid being filmed - but somebody got a photograph at the same time. Perhaps that's why he turned around when the film chappie came along? Either way (joke) I don't think we can identify the location from the roof line/windows/cobbles/whatever (delete as appropriate) in this film clip!

Wouldn't swear to those two guys being the same...

Julian

Yes, I spotted those other prisoners as well. It looks as though they are being rounded up to be put on trains. I'll be on the PC later to digitally b*gger about with the stills a bit more. Hopefully, I should have something worth posting than the poor copies above. Great that the pickelhaub guy is identifiable! It is also possible that there is more footage than we have seen as they may have not used all of the footage when they made the documentary. I'm guessing that the original footage must have been from a German archive???

[seaforth78]

Seaforth 78: Looking back at the film, though, I do think he is trying to avoid being filmed - but somebody got a photograph at the same time. Perhaps that's why he turned around when the film chappie came along? Either way (joke) I don't think we can identify the location from the roof line/windows/cobbles/whatever (delete as appropriate) in this film clip!

Julian

Looking again closely at both segments done by Seaforths I would have to agree that Yate is studiously trying to avoid the camera even with the addition of roof line/windows/cobbles! Interestingly, as follows custom in the German Army, the touching of an officer was forbidding. See how Bader was treated in the 2nd War when the he was wondering why the Germans just didn't bodily throw him into his cell when he gave them a hard time, remarking how the camp commandant told him that it was forbidden to do that, even to a foreign officer prisoner.

[seaforths]

What a nightmare these images are! The download from youtube - the best I could get was mpeg4 which is still very much compressed. The stills I have captured are therefore at quite a low resolution and only between 100 to 200kb. I haven't managed anything yet worth saving to post. Oh sure, I can improve on the overall image and take out quite a lot of the flaws which make them more pleasing to the eye but it does nothing whatsoever to improve the detail on the uniforms. I'm turning in for the night - sulking

[P.B.]

Many thanks for the positive comments, gents....spotting this obscure bit of footage is proof positive that I really do need to get out more!

I can't add much more to this debate, but at a tangent I think there's an interesting side issue about the way WWI soldiers reacted to being caught on film -there's an interesting piece by Roger Smithers of the IWM in the book "Contested Objects" about relatives recognising soldiers in footage shown during the war which is well worth tracking down. It's also interesting to see prisoners of war being filmed and some of them hiding their faces behind helmets, their hands and so on, clearly ashamed at having gone into captivity.

Let's see how far we can get with this clip -it's turning into the forum's equivalent of the Zapruder movie....

All the best

Paul.

[trajan]

Many thanks for the positive comments, gents....spotting this obscure bit of footage is proof positive that I really do need to get out more! ...

Not at all Paul! Your exceedingly keen observation has helped destroy some much vaunted theses as well as providing an incredible insight into those early days of the GW. Yes, in many ways, it has raised many more questions that add to the mystery... And it does, indeed, help confirm that the familiar 'snatched' shot of Yate was just that. There again, I do wonder, how it was that you spotted WHO it was - you must be more familiar with the Yate saga than you let on to!

Julian

[seaforth78]

Not at all Paul! Your exceedingly keen observation has helped destroy some much vaunted theses as well as providing an incredible insight into those early days of the GW. Yes, in many ways, it has raised many more questions that add to the mystery... And it does, indeed, help confirm that the familiar 'snatched' shot of Yate was just that. There again, I do wonder, how it was that you spotted WHO it was - you must be more familiar with the Yate saga than you let on to!

Julian

Hear hear.....

[P.B.]

In reality I know very little about Yate and his capture...in true anorak style, the thing that always intrigued me about the images of Yate were the fact that he appeared to have most of his personal equipment still with him despite not having been immediately captured prior to the photos/film being taken, and that's what made the film clip memorable.

It's an intriguing question -did respect for an officer's personal property (as his belt, cross straps, map case, etc were) overtake both a natural desire that soldiers have to relieve captured enemies of their property and the sound military principle of taking anything from a captive that either might be of intelligence value or (like a map, for example) be useful if to them if they escaped (like a compass or watch)?

More questions than answers....

All the best

Paul.