George Rayner Posted 29 July , 2023 Share Posted 29 July , 2023 Hi Tom Have you seen his service record in Fold3? Says that disability is not caused, nor aggravated by military service https://www.fold3.com/image/514781273. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 29 July , 2023 Share Posted 29 July , 2023 Although this page from Fold3-thanks-says 'aggravated' George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2023 Thank you George. Much appreciated. Without a death certificate I could not put him forward. I did fill out the form but did not hear back. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 29 July , 2023 Share Posted 29 July , 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, museumtom said: I hide the images after we pass them by to reduce bandwith. Hmm. ??? I have to admit I am finding this thread increadibly hard to follow with so many names scattered about on it over so many pages and entries going 'walkabout' almost certainly won't help you and/or others on GWF I would suggest From my personal perspective ... I suggest you present each man in a new thread of their own - so as easier to navigate [and perhaps thus to contribute to] I don't know how other members might think. Just a thought ... All the best. 3 hours ago, museumtom said: Brian/Brien , Andrew . (Carlow). R4/066366 . Date of death: 07/03/1918 . Age: 43 . Born: Staplestown Road, Carlow, 31/12/1866. Son of Andrew and Anne (nee McDarby) Brien. . Enlisted: Carlow 19/03/1915, occupation on enlistment-groom. . Residence: Fair Green, Tullow, County Carlow . Death: Died after discharge at Victoria Central Hospital, Merseyside, Liverpool. Discharged being no longer physically fit for war service on 12/10/1917-dilation of the stomach (neoplasen). Not the result of but aggravated by war service. . Next of kin, etc: A single man. Brother of Mary Moran, Fair Green, Tullow, County Carlow. Mary's marriage cert in 1890 gives her fathers name as Andrew Brien, labourer, Barrack Street, Carlow. His mother Anne Brien, nee McDarby died at Tullow Green, on 18/11/1892 from diabetes aged 63. . Newspapers/Books etc: *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** Notes- Also served in the Boer War with the Dragoons of the Line, 1st Dragoon Guards. In his Boer War records his age on discharge is given as 41 in 1906. On discharge he was going to work as a Railway Porter and lived at 348 Westminster Road, Kirkdale, Liverpool . Grave/Memorial: . Cemetery: Unknown but possibly Ford Cemetery in Liverpool. Andrew BRIAN, R4/066366, ASC Pension went to his sister, Mrs Mary MORAN, according to the pension records at WFA/Fold3 - age given as 50 yrs but the reference date is not clear!!! M Edited 29 July , 2023 by Matlock1418 man's details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2023 Thank you Matlock. I reckoned that once they were processed and could not be furthered it was time to move along and delete/hide them. One way for pals to keep a post is to quote it then it will be saved. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 July , 2023 Share Posted 29 July , 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, museumtom said: Thank you Matlock. I reckoned that once they were processed and could not be furthered it was time to move along and delete/hide them. One way for pals to keep a post is to quote it then it will be saved. Kind regards. Tom. What happens if they could be furthered in subsequent months and years though, Tom? Edited 29 July , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 29 July , 2023 Share Posted 29 July , 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: What happens if they could be furthered in subsequent months years though, Tom? Central to my thoughts - hard in the future to help Tom to add to his splendid efforst so far. And/or for others to discover his work on GWF. M Edited 29 July , 2023 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2023 I do understand, on hindsight, I will cease the practice henceforth lads and lassies. Thanks again for your enlightened advice as always. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 3 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2023 Next out of the trap is Beamish, William Francis. I cannot find a DC for him. can you help please? William Francis Beamish, Navy, 197814.pdfhttps://www.fold3.com/image/646056832?terms=197814 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) Possibly, from FreeBMD Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page Deaths Sep 1920 (>99%) BEAMISH William F 39 Bridgend 11a 737 Age matches YoB on pension ledger page M Edit: From GRO Name: Age at Death (in years): BEAMISH, WILLIAM FRANCIS 39 GRO Reference: 1920 S Quarter in BRIDGEND Volume 11A Page 737 Edited 3 August , 2023 by Matlock1418 correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) I think that is him as the address on PC corresponds. There is also the probate record George Edited 3 August , 2023 by George Rayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 3 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2023 Thank you Matlock and George, that certainly looks like him! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) William Francis BEAMISH, 197814, RN His initial pension index card shows discharge 13.10.17 [whereas pension ledger shows 12..10.17] and shows an award of 32/6 from 13.10.17 to 9.10.17 [!!???] - so depending on discharge I think that probably should be From 14.10.17 to 9.11.17 [or 13.10.17 to 9.11.17] - the Navy and MoP didn't like to both pay out for a man's last day of service = the 100% disability rate for an NCO Class III - a fairly typical short starter rate & period whilst they better worked out a pension, quite common for for a man apparently perceived not likely to be 100% disabilty in the longer term. Interesting to note on his later pension ledger page, posted above by Tom, he seems to have had a Treatment file - if/whilst admitted to an institution as an in-patient his pension would have been ceased/paused [if an out-patient he may have received additional travel expenses] M Edit: Interesting to note on the reverse of the pension ledger page he got a 20% rate of 14/6 pw from 14/7/20 to 12/7/21 [Handy - I'm working out that by then the 100% rate was thus 72/6 pw for a man of his former rank - seems rather more than I had expected in both scenarios] Edited 3 August , 2023 by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 A Petty Officer is equivalent to ...? 24 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: NCO Class III George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 1 minute ago, George Rayner said: A Petty Officer is equivalent to ...? 26 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: NCO Class III PO = Pension class NCO III based on his 32/6 pw pension rate In the Army a Sgt would be in the same pension class. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) He had a SWB and was a P.O. 1 George Edited 3 August , 2023 by George Rayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, George Rayner said: He had a SWB and was a P.O. 1 Thanks for this - I am not that familar with the Navy OK, perhaps I may need to amend my aide-memoire to PO 1 for NCO III ?? - but the 32/6 pw is clearly NCO III, 100%, as it is not elsewhere on my guide matrix. Certainly I think it is quite likely a PO [PO 2 ?] would be a NCO Class IV = a Cpl in the Army M Edited 3 August , 2023 by Matlock1418 PO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 I really have no idea-just digging for information and trying to understand some of the complexities of the pension system! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, George Rayner said: I really have no idea-just digging for information and trying to understand some of the complexities of the pension system! Hope I am not muddling you - hoping to have helped you/others with pensions. You have helped me. Every day a school day! M Edited 3 August , 2023 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: Thanks for this - I am not that familar with the Navy OK, perhaps I may need to amend my aide-memoire to PO 1 for NCO III ?? - but the 32/6 pw is clearly NCO III, 100%, as it is not elsewhere on my guide matrix. Certainly I think it is quite likely a PO would be a NCO Class IV = a Cpl in the Army M A PO was a sergeant equivalent. A Leading Seaman = corporal. A Able Seaman = lance corporal. A Ordinary Seaman = private. NB. equivalence of ranks above that level gets more complicated, in part because of totally different concepts of warrant officer, those in the RN being more like Army quarter-masters / riding-masters commissions, i.e. entirely focused on specialists**. ** the then long-standing RN type of warrant officer was eventually discontinued and replaced by a subordinate type of specialist officers commission, plus in recent decades the Army style of warrant officer has been standardised across the three armed services, albeit that the RAF have stuck with their between wars decision to discontinue the ‘second class’ stage and just have one level. Edited 3 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 (edited) On 03/08/2023 at 10:30, FROGSMILE said: A PO was a sergeant equivalent. A Leading Seaman = corporal. A Able Seaman = lance corporal. A Ordinary Seaman = private. Thank FS - so back to my original PO/Sgt equivalent as a pension NCO III - The 32.6 pw pension rate certainly seems to support that Thus ... PO was a sergeant equivalent. = Class NCO III Leading Seaman = corporal. = Class NCO IV WO or NCO entitled to a Service Pension = This was an additional class - rated as Class V Able Seaman = lance corporal. = Class V [since a LCpl was not substantive but classed as a Pte] Ordinary Seaman = private. = Class V FYI: As for the other higher Army pension classes: WO I = Class I WO II or NCO I = rated/pension between the adjacent classes NCO [Senior e.g. Colour/Staff Sgt ?] = Class NCO II M Edited 4 August , 2023 by Matlock1418 tweak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 3 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2023 Thank you kindly Frogsmile, George and Matlock. Next one out of the bag is this lad, try as I might I cannot find a death cert for him, and it should be easy y'know, can you help please? If the DC bears out Folder3 then he should qualify, I did as Terry could be go ahead without a DC and he said no. Kind regards. Tom. https://www.fold3.com/image/668296113?terms=cork https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?sid=998&lastname=bourke&keywords=6307&keywordsplace_proximity=5&sourcecountry=great+britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 3 August , 2023 Share Posted 3 August , 2023 The service number is 6307! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 3 August , 2023 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2023 On the ball George, thank you. Thank you also for your email that shows he died in the UK, I was looking for him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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