museumtom Posted 29 April Author Share Posted 29 April (edited) Thank you very much Den795. Great information. If you wish I will add this new information to the database and credit it you your good self. You need three posts to use the messaging system here so two more and you can send me your details. Could you please give me details of his brother who also died in the war please? The database is here. https://irelandsgreatwardead.ie/the-archive/ Kind regards and thank you. Tom. Edited 29 April by museumtom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 29 April Share Posted 29 April Morning Tom I read this with interest yesterday and followed through on the brother. I believe him to be MGC #13727 died 17/2/1917. He is CWGC commemorated. Best to get confirmation from Den795 though! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 April Author Share Posted 29 April Thank you kindly George, the pension card backs up your find. Coming together nicely. https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Youghal_Rural/Clashadunna_East/1160578/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 29 April Admin Share Posted 29 April 1 hour ago, museumtom said: You need three posts to use the messaging system here so two more and you can send me your details It’s one post to use private messages so @Den795 is good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 29 April Author Share Posted 29 April Thank you Michelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den795 Posted 29 April Share Posted 29 April 14 hours ago, George Rayner said: Morning Tom I read this with interest yesterday and followed through on the brother. I believe him to be MGC #13727 died 17/2/1917. He is CWGC commemorated. Best to get confirmation from Den795 though! George Yes George , You are correct with the details about James ..... To a degree The records for James are not so simple as the family sadly refused to recognize his service and Ultimate sacrifice .... And the Military records were destroyed during the Blitz on London in WW2 .... So I only have what I could trace over years of searching. Yes he waas originally a 4th Connaught Ranger & the story goes that he took a Pony & Trap into Youghal town sometime in 1915 and left it tied up .... Sent message to family to retrieve Pony & trap & Vanished / enlisted ! 4th Connaught Rangers were in Kilworth / Fermoy at the time but there are NO records to confirm James .... Other than he was MG company and compulsory transferred to MGC in 1916. He then deployed to France with 99th Infantry battalion MG Company I have the war diaries of his final days because I have spent years tracing his movements There are NO pictures of him in Uniform or medals because a member of the family destroyed them in the 1980s when I discovered them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den795 Posted 29 April Share Posted 29 April 14 hours ago, Michelle Young said: It’s one post to use private messages so @Den795 is good to go. Thanks Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 29 April Share Posted 29 April (edited) 2 hours ago, Den795 said: The records for James are not so simple as the family sadly refused to recognize his service and Ultimate sacrifice .... James LAWTON, 13727, Machine Gun Corps Hmm? ... His mother put in a dependant's pension claim Image thanks to WFA/Fold3 It rather looks 5/- pw was awarded under Article 21.1c of the 1919 Royal Warrant [Article 21.1c only appears in the 1919 RW - paid in respect of an unmarried child under 26 at the start of the war or date of joining the colours, if later, and no pension being paid in favour of a child or other dependant in respect of him - Irrespective of any pre-war dependance, age, infirmity or pecuniary need] Things didn't seem quite so clear-cut for his family back then. M Edited 29 April by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 30 April Author Share Posted 30 April Thank you kindly Den795 and Matlock. PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den795 Posted 30 April Share Posted 30 April 11 hours ago, Matlock1418 said: James LAWTON, 13727, Machine Gun Corps Hmm? ... His mother put in a dependant's pension claim Image thanks to WFA/Fold3 It rather looks 5/- pw was awarded under Article 21.1c of the 1919 Royal Warrant [Article 21.1c only appears in the 1919 RW - paid in respect of an unmarried child under 26 at the start of the war or date of joining the colours, if later, and no pension being paid in favour of a child or other dependant in respect of him - Irrespective of any pre-war dependance, age, infirmity or pecuniary need] Things didn't seem quite so clear-cut for his family back then. M Matlock I am fully aware of the family situation and circumstances back then ! ….. and also have that pension claim form …. What is meant by not recognizing his service is that he was never mentioned by my grandmother or other family relatives…. Nor his grave In France ever mentioned or visited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 30 April Share Posted 30 April 19 minutes ago, Den795 said: I am fully aware of the family situation and circumstances back then ! ….. and also have that pension claim form …. What is meant by not recognizing his service is that he was never mentioned by my grandmother or other family relatives…. Nor his grave In France ever mentioned or visited I was not aware of what you knew but pension index cards are not always known or interpreted - I had hoped my explanation would have been appreciated and added to your story. My intention was not to offend, and I hope I have not done so. The politics, both inside and outwith a family, can be very complicated. It is very sad when a family member gets shunned by their own. Glad you are trying to make family amends to a soldier who lost his life in the service of his country. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 30 April Author Share Posted 30 April Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den795 Posted 30 April Share Posted 30 April 4 hours ago, museumtom said: Yes Tom that is correct ...... In regards to JOHN Lawton. As children on holiday at the family cottage at Clashadunna we were told of the Stars & Stripes Flag being used as a Privacy room divider in the large main bedroom when my father and 3 aunts were children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 2 May Author Share Posted 2 May Good morning all. Here is one man we cannot nail down, is he R.N. or Mercantile Marine? We cannot find his records, can you help please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC78 Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May I'm guessing he was Merchant Navy? The number 105677 appears to refer to the ship, the SS Fordham. A search on the National Archives brings up two crew lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 2 May Author Share Posted 2 May Thank you Paul. We really are in the dark on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May I wonder what case number R.N. 8517 refers to? Pension record? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May 1 hour ago, George Rayner said: I wonder what case number R.N. 8517 refers to? Pension record? Yes, that R.N. 8517 is the pension case reference number I have seen multiple examples where R.N. case numbers were used for Royal Naval Reserve cases ... so as he was an AB I could easily be persuaded to consider along that potential RNR line of enquiry M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Millar Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May (edited) Tom, I think he was an Able Bodied Seaman serving on the SS Fordham previously SS Lateliford ??. See attached crew list for the Fordham dated 7th July to 31st December 1915. His name is second from the bottom on the list. Not sure if Merchant Navy or Royal Navy? George Edited 2 May by George Millar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 2 May Author Share Posted 2 May Good man George, thank you kindly, a great find. That kind of points me in the direction of Merchant Navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Millar Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May Tom, I think you could be right about him being Merchant Navy but still not sure. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May (edited) FYI: Mercantile Marine pension claims at WFA/Fold3 are typically in a different card set from military claims and MM claims typically use a different style of pension reference. MERRIGAN seems to be turning up in the military section and a military style pension reference is used. M Edit: This topic is in Soldiers' and may not reach the eyes of more knowledgeable members @horatio2, @KizmeRD and/or @MerchantOldSalt may perhaps be able to assist ?? Edited 2 May by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Millar Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May Thanks Matlock, it just seems strange that we can't find him in either the Royal Naval Reserve or Volunteer records or for that matter in the Royal Navy Seamen's records. I've tried different spelling of his name etc but no luck. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Millar Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May (edited) Tom, Is Michael Merrigan the person who married Margaret Demby on the 25th September 1913 in Wicklow, his occupation being listed as a "Seaman" and address as Castle Street in Wicklow. If it is then his father Edward Merrigan was also a "Seaman". Edward was married to Bridget ???? and they lived in 26 Castle Street, Wicklow in the 1901 census & 44 Castle Street, Wicklow in the 1911 census. Michael was still living with his parents as these times. Edward was the captain of the ship "Maux Girl". George Edited 2 May by George Millar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 2 May Author Share Posted 2 May Thank you kindly lads, I can see the A Team are on it! Here is all I could find on him. Merrigan , Michael . (Wicklow). Rank- Able Seaman . Regiment/Service: Royal Navy . Unit: S.S. Fordham . Ser No: 105677 . Date of death: 08/12/1916 . Age: 50 . Born: Wicklow . Enlisted: Fitzwilliam Road, Wicklow . Residence: Fitzwilliam Road, Wicklow . Death: Died at Wicklow Infirmary from Abscess of Lung, Syncope. . Next of kin, etc: Husband of Mrs Margaret Merrigan, Fitzwilliam Road, Wicklow. Michael merrigan, Sea-Man, Castle Street, Wicklow Town, son of Edward Merrigan Sea-man, married Margaret Denby, Fitzwilliam Road, Wicklow Town at Wicklow Church on 25/09/1913. Notes- This man may be Merchant Navy but has a pension card with R.N. on it. . Grave/Memorial: . Cemetery: Unknown . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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