I need your help again lads and lassies.

[museumtom]

Can you help finding this lad in the CWGC please guys and gals?

[Matlock1418]

Patrick NAUGHTON, 7541 - MIC has: 2nd Connaught Rangers - Dead 14.9.14 

M

Edited 23 October , 2023 by Matlock1418
typo

[PaulC78]

MIC, medal roll and SER all say he was missing/dead on 14/09/1914. CWGC show various Connaughts dead on that date, but your man isn't listed.

Two pension cards give the date as 22/11/1914. CWGC doesn't have any Connaughts dead on that date.

He is named as missing in several newspapers on 01/12/1914, this is from the Belfast Newsletter:

Incidentally, Dixon is listed on CWGC as having died on 14/09/1914: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/878411/george-dixon/

[museumtom]

Excellent research lads, thank you kindly. It gets curiouser and curiouser....

[museumtom]

A possibility..........Newspaper article dated 05/12/1914. Connaught Rangers in Ballinrobe Hospital. Bayonetted at The Front. Private Naughton, of the 88^th Connaught Rangers, is home from the war suffering from a nasty wound in the right shoulder, caused by a bayonet thrust, and is at present lying in the Ballinrobe Union Hospital under the treatment of Dr Daly, medical officer of the workhouse. Naughton is an old campaigner, and with the 88^th division, which he boasts is the flower of the Rangers, came through the South African War unscathed. At the outbreak of the present war he rejoined, and about a month ago was sent to France, but cannot tell the names of any of the places through which he has been in that country. Names, he said, did not trouble them, nor did they make any inquiries for places. They were conveyed inland on motors as far as the roads permitted, and over the rest of the way to the trenches on lorries. They had not taken up their positions two hours in the trenches when the Germans appeared in the distance advancing toward them with fixed bayonets. They were marching in dense form and must have numbered several thousands. “There was a Scotch regiment with us,” Naughton continued, “in the trenches, and we all naturally felt that our first taste of the war would he a horrifying experience. We remained mute until they came quite near, about 200 yards, and with the command “charge,” we sprang to our feet, and with a tremendous shout hurled ourselves on them. The roar frightened them. Some dropped their guns and held up their hands, others tried to turn back, but were forced forward by the pressure behind. We hacked right and left, and were cutting through when they turned and fled. Their losses in dead and wounded were enormous. In that charge I got a thrust in the shoulder, but did not fall till I brought down my assailant, a big, burly fellow of 40.” Naughton, although wounded, continued to use his bayonet until he fell exhausted from loss of blood. In the heat and excitement, he said he had no pain, but felt his strength failing him. His vision weakened, his rifle dropped and he fell. On regaining consciousness he found himself in the ambulance with his shoulder bandaged, and his next move was to hospital, whence he got home on furlough. The shoulder is again giving trouble, but under rest and treatment the wound will soon heal. It was the quickest and smartest bit of work, he added, I went through in all my life. We were into it and out of it in less time than we were in the trenches.”

[Matlock1418]

8 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

Two pension cards give the date as 22/11/1914. CWGC doesn't have any Connaughts dead on that date.

Challengingly it is not totally unknown for a date of claim to be mistakenly put as date of death at MoP ???

What were the 2CR up to on those 14/9 and 22/11/14? - What does the WD record?

Certainly from CWGC 14/9 seems a tragically busy day for 2CR with 32 dead

M

[corisande]

I doubt that he survived. Soldiers effects have that his money was divided out

With the name and address of his step mother, and the family from Soldiers Effects, you are getting enough info to start building a family tree which could lead you to him

[Matlock1418]

6 minutes ago, museumtom said:

They were marching in dense form and must have numbered several thousands.

3 minutes ago, museumtom said:

We remained mute until they came quite near, about 200 yards, and with the command “charge,” we sprang to our feet, and with a tremendous shout hurled ourselves on them.

I'm afraid to me this all sounds a bit of a fantastic yarn - a charge from 200 yards to engage with bayonet would seem to me to be extremely hazardous and unlikely to be very successful against mausers.

At that range 15 rounds per minute would seem more likely to have been more effective, but I suppose bayonet possible later on. ???

But that doesn't get us any further really.

M

[museumtom]

Thank you Matlock and Corisande. In Corisandes sheet we have what is probably the answer? With the info you have given we might be able to nail him down.  

Kind regards.

Tom.

Edited 23 October , 2023 by museumtom

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, museumtom said:

In Corisandes sheet we have what is probably the answer?

I agree that is very handy - a further military record confirming that the military accepted his death and a plausible date.  Matching MIC and seemingly the MR.

Have to admit CWGC more likely to accept that 14/9/14 date than the MoP one - Unfortunately the MoP records don't show any quantum, but the notes do continue over may years so it might seem likely the claim was paid with claim becoming DEAD, 24/6/30 [on or by - potentially caused by Kate NAUGHTON's death]

M

Edited 23 October , 2023 by Matlock1418
add

[museumtom]

Thank you Matlock, the main proof that could be acceptable is the overseas deaths, G.R.O.?

[Matlock1418]

24 minutes ago, museumtom said:

the main proof that could be acceptable is the overseas deaths, G.R.O.?

Certainly would be the source where I would go next, if he were from E & W.

Not sure about for men from Ireland - does Ireland have the same as GRO for their O/S deaths?

As Ireland was part of the UK in 1914 I guess GRO could be a place to try anyway.

M

Edited 23 October , 2023 by Matlock1418
add

[PaulC78]

The GRO war deaths index on FMP only has two Patrick Naughtons, neither is your man.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1651823/p-naughton/

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/466022/p-naughton/

[corisande]

His stepmothers death, does not tell you much more except her age. Address is on Pension Card, Meath St, Dublin

 AS pension card implies her death being on 23 Nov 1929 , was before the card was dead on June 1930

[corisande]

And I think that this is them in Meath St in 1911 census, shows a 1910 marriage.

Note use of Norton rather than Naughton, which may be the key to the whole thing

 

[corisande]

Which leads me to your man in 1901 census , at Merchants Quay, Dublin

[corisande]

Does not solve the problem of his death, but you know now who he is.

And you can see the two spellings of his name - Norton and Naughton

[museumtom]

Great finds, and suggestions lads. He is a difficult one to be sure. Ireland did not have information on foreign deaths, sorry to say Matlock. Corisande you discover of Norton and Naughton looks 100% right and the genealogy looks bang on, thank you. Still the question arises...did he die in 1914 or did he survive and die after the war?

Y'know...I love an ould mystery..

[corisande]

I will continue to annoy you with snippets on his life Tom

30 Jul 1903
Admission Place    Dublin
Charge    PROFANE & OBSCENE LANGUAGE
Jail    MOUNTJOY

And this cross checks on him getting married. I have no idea what happened to the wife

 

And a report of him being missing dated Oct 28th 1914

[museumtom]

Good man David, thank you kindly, it all helps.

[museumtom]

Working off Corisandes clues we get, Kates previous husband.

[museumtom]

Patrick's real mother.

[museumtom]

Patrick, the dead guy with the Connaughts-

[George Rayner]

Norton isn’t Naughton then?

George

[museumtom]

Just for you George old buddy.

This Gaelic name has a number of anglicized forms including Naughton, Naghten, Natton and Norton. The Gaelic word that gives these names is 'Neachtain' which translates as 'bright' or 'pure' and which was originally a Gaelic first name.

Edited 23 October , 2023 by museumtom