Postcards

[Muerrisch]

Obvious question: how many rounds.

Infantry standard load was 150. 

2nd RWF went into some battles/ crises with and extra 100.

 

Vest would carry more ....a stunning load in addition to normal.

[Muerrisch]

from a book by a famous military historian who I know.

 

The Burden

 

The soldier and the subaltern had a substantial burden to carry on the march, let alone the special equipment needed in an attack.  The standard load was as follows: Clothing etc: Boots, braces, service cap with badge, identity disc and cord, woollen drawers, service dress jacket with metal shoulder titles and field dressing, clasp knife, pay book, puttees, shirt, socks, trousers, cardigan waistcoat. Total weight 14 pounds 11 ounces. Weapons: Rifle with oil bottle, pull through and sling, bayonet and scabbard, 150 rounds ammunition.  Total 19 pounds 8 ½ ounces. Tools: Entrenching implement and carrier. Total 2 pounds 9 ½ ounces. Accoutrements:  Water bottle with carrier, web equipment 1908 pattern.  Total 8 pounds 4 ¼ ounces. In the pack: Cap comforter, holdall with laces, toothbrush, razor and case, shaving brush, comb, greatcoat with metal shoulder titles, housewife (mending kit), mess tin and cover, socks, soap, towel.  Total 10 pounds 1 ¾ ounces.  Rations and water: bread, cheese, Iron Ration (emergency), water.  Total 5 pounds 13 ½ ounces. Total on the soldier:  61 pounds 0½ ounces. The subaltern‟s load was similar.   

Edited 22 March , 2020 by Muerrisch

[RNCVR]

13 hours ago, seaJane said:

@RNCVR loving those RN postcards, thank you. Other half was a PO (Comms) when he was in the RNR so I shall show him the signaller.

 

 

Thanks Jane, I have more RPPC's of Signalmen & Telegraphists which I will post eventually.

 

Here is another Leading Signalman(higher grade) ie: 2 stars.

[seaJane]

Great! Thanks.

[squirrel]

8 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

from a book by a famous military historian who I know.

 

The Burden

 

The soldier and the subaltern had a substantial burden to carry on the march, let alone the special equipment needed in an attack.  The standard load was as follows: Clothing etc: Boots, braces, service cap with badge, identity disc and cord, woollen drawers, service dress jacket with metal shoulder titles and field dressing, clasp knife, pay book, puttees, shirt, socks, trousers, cardigan waistcoat. Total weight 14 pounds 11 ounces. Weapons: Rifle with oil bottle, pull through and sling, bayonet and scabbard, 150 rounds ammunition.  Total 19 pounds 8 ½ ounces. Tools: Entrenching implement and carrier. Total 2 pounds 9 ½ ounces. Accoutrements:  Water bottle with carrier, web equipment 1908 pattern.  Total 8 pounds 4 ¼ ounces. In the pack: Cap comforter, holdall with laces, toothbrush, razor and case, shaving brush, comb, greatcoat with metal shoulder titles, housewife (mending kit), mess tin and cover, socks, soap, towel.  Total 10 pounds 1 ¾ ounces.  Rations and water: bread, cheese, Iron Ration (emergency), water.  Total 5 pounds 13 ½ ounces. Total on the soldier:  61 pounds 0½ ounces. The subaltern‟s load was similar.   

And if worn correctly, and properly adjusted, comfortable and well balanced according to those who have worn it.

[lucycutler]

I thought I'd add to this splendid idea.  First off the men from my extended family, apologies if one or two have been shown before on other of the Forums.

134582 Gnr James Arthur Cutler 245 Siege Battery RGA.

 

 

 

 

200873 Pte Frederick Charles Harding 1/4 Kings Own Yorkhire Light Infantry (second row from bottom, 5th man from left as viewed)

 

 

 

M335526, S/423569 L/Cpl Tom George Martin Hinman  ASC

 

 

 

27687 Pte Henry Allen Price 1st Herefords/3rd KSLI then 11th Borders (Lonsdale Battalion)

 

 

 

 

2549 / 235810 Pte Frank Smith  1st Herefords

 

 

 

And not to be unfair to the nautical side of the family:-

226878  Leading Seaman Arthur Thomas Harding (HMS Thunderer, Jutland veteran) shown here bottom row far right as viewed.

 

 

And finally M2126 Leading Cooks Mate Henry William Morris (HMS Kempenfelt, Jutland veteran) shown post war.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GWF1967]

4 hours ago, lucycutler said:

I thought I'd add to this splendid idea.  First off the men from my extended family, apologies if one or two have been shown before on other of the Forums. 

 

A lovely set of family photos.  Many thanks for posting. 

[RNCVR]

Love the HMS Thunderer photo Lucy.  Perhaps you might have it placed on the Jutland Ships company photos.

The two ratings in the centre seated are wearing SG (Seaman Gunners) rate badges, & the rating to Harding's right is a Leading Seaman.

 

Thanks,

Bryan

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

Here is my grandfather, William Frederic Lindsay (1880-1940), when still a Lieutenant with 53rd Battalion, Australian Imperial Force, on leave in Paris, 1917. 

He subsequently went on a Course to 1 Sqn, Australian Flying Corps, was promoted Captain and appointed Coy Cdr 53rd Bn.

At a later stage, when mounted on his horse, he survived the explosion of an artillery shell which wounded two nearby Australians - and left no trace of the unfortunate horse!

During the successful attack on Peronne, on 1st September 1918, he commanded "D" Coy and was wounded. This was a VC action (Pte Currey, 53rd Bn AIF), and Capt W. F. Lindsay was awarded the Military Cross - being one of 25 to the Battalion.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

[lucycutler]

16 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Love the HMS Thunderer photo Lucy.  Perhaps you might have it placed on the Jutland Ships company photos.

Thanks,

Bryan

Done 

[lucycutler]

I'd better put up some photos from my Partner's family before she gets jealous!  First is her maternal Grandfather flanked by his two older Brothers

Three Brothers, (left to right as viewed)  437545 Pte Albert George Fairall 7th Canadian Inf Battalion;   487533 Pte Frank Fairall also 7th Can Inf;   92323 Dvr John (Jack) Fairall R.E.

Albert and Frank fought together and were both wounded at Pozières in September 1916 with Frank losing an eye.  Don't know much about John Fairall as his record is missing and he had no children for us to ask. Albert and Frank had emigrated separately to Canada before the War and joined up there,  We'd love to know where the photo was taken as they clearly all managed to get together at some point either in Ypres or on the Somme presumably.  We have a pair of German binoculars that Frank brought back.  

 

Here is Partner's paternal Grandfather

110499 Gnr William Hallson 15th Battery 2nd Dvn R.F.A.  Attested 11th October 1915 and sent to France just six weeks later on 21st Nov 1915.  Wounded in November 1916 and after recovery re-mustered as 402605 in the Labour Corps.

[Gardenerbill]

This is my paternal Grandfather A/L Cpl Leslie H Sheppard of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts and derby), on his left sleeve he has a marksman badge.

He was working as a bank clerk when enlisted 17th June 1918 on his 18th Birthday called Up 29th June 1918 at Derby.

He did not serve overseas and family legend has it that the Bank Manager wrote to his commanding officer requesting his discharge. He was demobilised in January 1919. 

 

Edited 27 March , 2020 by Gardenerbill

[Dave1418]

3 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

This is my paternal Grandfather A/Cpl Leslie H Sheppard of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts and derby), on his left sleeve he has a marksman badge.

He was working as a bank clerk when enlisted 17th June 1918 on his 18th Birthday called Up 29th June 1918 at Derby.

He did not serve overseas and family legend has it that the Bank Manager wrote to his commanding officer requesting his discharge. He was demobilised in January 1918. 

 

A very lucky chap.. demobilised before he enlisted😵

He’s done remarkably well to get his crossed rifles and a stripe up in that time

[Gardenerbill]

Just now, Dave1418 said:

A very lucky chap.. demobilised before he enlisted😵

Oops corrected.

[GWF1967]

R.M.P's, Army Ordnance Corps. 

[robins2]

13 hours ago, lucycutler said:

I'd better put up some photos from my Partner's family before she gets jealous!  First is her maternal Grandfather flanked by his two older Brothers

Three Brothers, (left to right as viewed)  437545 Pte Albert George Fairall 7th Canadian Inf Battalion;   487533 Pte Frank Fairall also 7th Can Inf;   92323 Dvr John (Jack) Fairall R.E.

Albert and Frank fought together and were both wounded at Pozières in September 1916 with Frank losing an eye.  Don't know much about John Fairall as his record is missing and he had no children for us to ask. Albert and Frank had emigrated separately to Canada before the War and joined up there,  We'd love to know where the photo was taken as they clearly all managed to get together at some point either in Ypres or on the Somme presumably.  We have a pair of German binoculars that Frank brought back.  

 

Here is Partner's paternal Grandfather

110499 Gnr William Hallson 15th Battery 2nd Dvn R.F.A.  Attested 11th October 1915 and sent to France just six weeks later on 21st Nov 1915.  Wounded in November 1916 and after recovery re-mustered as 402605 in the Labour Corps.

Albert and Franks records here http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/list.aspx?SurnameSearch=fairall&, do you think Johns records might be British??  appears he is wearing Brit tunic

 

regards

 

Bob R.

Edited 28 March , 2020 by robins2

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

This Portrait was probably taken in Sydney, 1916.

It showed Australian Imperial Force (AIF) Lieut. W. F. Lindsay (6th Reinforcements, 53rd Battalion), prior to embarkation for England.

Note the INF lapel-badges, later discarded, and the braces-type Sam Browne (also discarded in lieu of the cross-strap type and a different cap).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[lucycutler]

6 hours ago, robins2 said:

Albert and Franks records here http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/list.aspx?SurnameSearch=fairall&, do you think Johns records might be British??  appears he is wearing Brit tunic

 

regards

 

Bob R.

We have Albert and Frank's records thanks.  We paid for photocopying and postage from Canada in the days before they were all made available on line.  John never went to join his Brothers in Canada so yes, his records would be British but we assume they were lost in the Blitz.  Being R.E. he could have been anywhere and without further info, I think we've probably gone as far as we can.  Hopefully someone will prove me wrong one day!   

[lucycutler]

Moving on to Partner's extended family now

10630 Pte William Daniel Hallson D Coy 5th Dorsets.  Known to be one of the men in this picture.  KIA 21st August 1915 during attack near W Hills, Suvla Bay, Gallipoli and as with so many Gallipoli dead, no known grave.  We hope to visit the battlefields there later this year, Covid 19 permitting!

 

 

 

6805 Sjt Joseph Bradshaw 6th Northants.  KIA 8th August 1918 and buried in Dive Copse Cemetery on the Somme. 

 

 

An earlier photo of Joseph Bradshaw (on the right as viewed), with two other unknown men.

 

 

 

 

Jonathan (Jonty) James Bradshaw shown here with his wife Elsie.  All we have, is a newspaper cutting from the occasion of their golden wedding which states that in 1914 he joined the "Cambs. Suffolk 14th Battalion" and was demobbed in 1918.  We have found no record or MIC so we assume that he did not serve abroad. 

[themonsstar]

Great family photos

 

Thank you for posting

 

Roy

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

2nd Lieut W. F. Lindsay, in a New South Wales, Australia, Training Camp circa 1915 and still wearing his Citizen Military Force (CMF) uniform, but already part of 53rd Battalion, Australian Imperial Force (AIF).

Details of AIF Capt and CMF Lt-Col William Frederic Lindsay, MC, ED, have already been shown - and hopefully found interest with Great War Forum members...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited 28 March , 2020 by Kimberley John Lindsay

[FROGSMILE]

13 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

R.M.P's, Army Ordnance Corps. 

 

 

Very interesting, that's the first time I've seen a photo of AOC Regimental (Military) Police.  Infantry and artillery are relatively common, but support corps are very rare to see.

Edited 28 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

Are RMP,s Military Police? Thought Military Police were a separate Corps?

 

I noticed in that AOC photo that their MP armbands are worn a couple on right sleeve & some on left sleeve, which is correct or was either sleeve ok?

 

Thanks, Bryan

Edited 28 March , 2020 by RNCVR

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Are RMP,s Military Police? Thought Military Police were a separate Corps?

 

I noticed in that AOC photo that their MP armbands are worn a couple on right sleeve & some on left sleeve, which is correct or was either sleeve ok?

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

Nowadays called Regimental Police (RP), in WW1 the term Regimental Military Police was used instead, and these were domestic policemen, within each unit, responsible to the commanding officer for internal discipline under a battalion Provost Sergeant.  In addition there were two small corps of Army level military police that worked for the Assistant Provost Marshal of each Divisional Formation.  They were known as the Military Mounted Police and the Military Foot Police.  At the beginning of the war they were tiny but grew in numbers throughout.  Pre-war, in general they did not take direct enlistees, but instead men who transferred from the cavalry, infantry, artillery and some support corps like the ASC.  Wartime expansion led to more innovative recruitment and during the course of the war civilian policemen were permitted to join directly from institutions like the Metropolitan Police and the Royal Irish Constabulary.  After the war the MMP and MFC merged to form the Corps of Military Police (CMP) and later still, after WW2, the appellation Royal was added, but rather than create an acronym RCMP that was known worldwide as referring to the Mounties of Canada the form Corps of Royal Military Police (CRMP) was used instead.  Shortened to RMP for day-to day-usage, the battalion domestic police became known as RP, thus maintaining a clear differential.

 

The RP arm bands (often cuff bands at first) were usually made up locally and with regimental distinctions, although there was a simple version that could be demanded through the supply chain.  For the vast majority of units there was a convention that the Provost Sergeant and Provost Corporals would wear the band on one arm and the ranks below on the other arm.  These rather raggedy looking AOC (by comparison with more elite corps) seem to be wearing them indiscriminately.

 

NB.  In Naval terms I would equate the RPs to each Ship’s Corporal and his regulators, and the RMP to the Shore Patrols, or 'Royal Marines Police' that existed at RN Shore Bases once upon a time.

Edited 28 March , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

NB.  In Naval terms I would equate the RPs to each Ships Corporal and his regulators, and the RMP to the Shore Patrols, or 'Royal Marines Police' that existed once upon a time.

 

Thanks Froggie for the explanation, I knew about the MMP & MFP,  but nice to know about some of the history of the Army Police system.

 

Ships Police & Regulators  -- yes, I know about them!!!

 

Post war image att'd.......  I have others as well.  You dont mess with these fellows!!!