Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Cresser

Thanks for the heads up on his papers being on Ancestry, I just downloaded. The writings hard to make out in some places but I think his service goes as follows

Hospital 08-05-16 to 20-05-16

Hospital 28-08-16 to 21-09-16

Trans. to 10/K.S.L.I. on 16-12-16

To school of Instruction 02-04-17 ?

Trans. to 7th Warks. and posted to 1st Garr. Battalion 29-06-17 (but I think this was only on paper ? as he seems to still be with school of Instruction, as he was Appointed A/Staff. Sgt. at school of Instruction on 25-11-17

Trans. back to K.S.L.I. and posted to 10th Batt. and seems to have regained his old K.S.L.I. number 29-04-18 ?(date is hard to read)

Posted to ? (can't read writing) No. 1 I.B.D. Kanthara 06-05-18

Embarked 25-05-18

Disembarked 30-05-18

Joined D I.B.D. Rouen 03-06-18

Rejoined Batt. 10-06-18

According to K.S.L.I. Regimental History, the Yeomanry of the E.E.F. were formed into infantry in Feb 1917 but according to all the service papers of 1/1st Shrops. Yeo. men I have, they all seem to trans. to 10/K.S.L.I. on 16-12-16, so can't work that one out.

Anyway according Regimental History, the Shrops. Yeo. arrived at Helmieh Camp on 1st March 1917, and joined by Cheshire Yeo., on the following day. The first three weeks of March spent reorganizing & equipping, followed by infantry training. On 24th March the 10/K.S.L.I. moved to Kantara, where more training took place, until 2nd April, when it started move to Gaza area.

Sgt. Jones, seems to be have been with school of Instruction from this point until 06-05-18 (I think).

The 10/K.S.L.I. started it's move to France on 29-04-18, when it struck camp at Kantara. It landed in France on 07-05-18. The Battalion were at Lattre St. Quentin, when Sgt. Jones rejoined them.

Will give you more info. on Battalion's movements tomorrow, as I have been on computer for several hours now and I have a num bum

Annette

[cresser]

Hi Annette,

Glad to be of some help, and thanks for even attempting to decipher the papers, your obviously more adept at that than me, mind you, being able to see helps !, and I`ve printed your reply for my own records, cheers. Sorry - can`t do anything about the bum from here !!!!!!!!.. Keep up the very good work. Cresser.

[Guest albion]

Hi Annette,

I wonder if you have any information on my grandfather Henry James Spencer. Like the Cresser post his numbers are very similar,

I have his ribbons from his medals his No are Shrops Yeo 1213, K.S.L.I 20026 nd Warwickshire 269518.

He has an interesting military history left home and joined the Royal Marines and lied about his age, rising to sergeant then in 1901 was demoted and then deserted,

I have his service records for the Marines but nothing for his army time.

Regards Stanley

[Monty Stubble]

Hi Chris

My local paper is the Ludlow & Craven Arms Advertiser, which recorded all K.S.L.I. casualties.

Very likely.

I can find any of Reg's brothers so far.

Annette

I have just spoken to my elderly mother who showed me something I've never seen before. A kind of embroidered handkerchief with the KSLI crest on it and 'Fermoy'. It did belong to my Grandfather. Is it possible he would be sent to Fermoy while recuperating from the effects of gas? I presume he then rejoined his battalion in France after that.

I know he finished the war in France.

Chris

[gailweston]

Hi Dave

Cheers for the photos & info., I have not yet had a good looked at info. in last post but looked at the Norry's. I am a little puzzled by William getting wounded at Hooge in October 1915 because going by his numbers, I can't see how he was in France/Flander in 1915 ? He was originally 1320 (TA) and would have enlisted early 1911, he was among a large number of 3/4th K.S.L.I. men who transfarred to 3rd Batt. and proceeded to France on 12-12-16 and joined Regular Army battalions of the K.S.L.I., I am not sure if their number changed when they moved to 3rd Batt. or when they went overseas. William is recorded as being wounded in the 05-01-18 issue of Ludlow Advertiser.

Now his brother 10303 Edward Thomas Norry could have been wound in October 1915, as he went overseas with the 1st Batt., who were in Hooge sector in late October 1915.

Also do you know if they had another brother or relative called George ?

Annette

[gailweston]

Helo Annette. I realise I am replying to an old post here. Edward Norry was my grandfather and William (Billy) my great uncle. They certainly did have a brother named George, who was also in the KSLI (4th Batallion I think) and survived the war. I would love to solve the puzzle of Billy's numbers. One family member has some ornaments and fans that Billy apparently brought back from China? As we understand it he left the army and then re-joined. Would love to see any information you have. There is another post on here somewhere in response to a question I placed over his numbers. I will try to find it. I do have other photos of Edward if you would like them.

[gailweston]

Regarding Private W.J. Norry, the information I received from another forum member was as follows:

An acquaintance of mine has asked me the following question which I do not have the answer but I am confidant that there will be a forum member with the knowledge.

" My great-uncle, William John Norry, died in the German Offensive on the 22nd March 1918. I believe (but am not positive) that he enlisted in 1914. He was a private with the 1st Battalion Kings Shropshire Light Infantry, number 21289. What is confusing me is that on his medal card, underneath this number, is an asterisk and the number 1320. I wondered if you have any idea what this is. I know he was wounded at Hooge in 1915 and went home, but recovered and went back to the front. Would he have been given a new number? Or could it mean he had been in the army prior to the outbreak of war, and re-joined? "

Name: Norry, WILLIAM JOHN

Initials: W J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: King's Shropshire Light Infantry

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Date of Death: 22/03/1918

Service No: 21289

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 7.

Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

Remembering my Grandfather 3736 Pte Willie Bennett, 1/4 KOYLI. Died Of Wounds 8/7/1916, buried in Warloy-Baillon Communal Cemetery Extension, Somme, France.

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#2 Stebie9173

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11-March 05 Gender:Male Location:Peterborough, Cambs. Interests:Northamptonshire Regiment (mainly 6th Bn.), 12th Div Signals R.E., 9th Black Watch, Royal Engineers. Posted 27 November 2007 - 02:24 PM

I've just been researching some similar number sequences in my "own" regiment - the Northamptons.

They were men who had originally served overseas with a Territorial Force battalion and been evacuated back to England (in my case from Gallipoli, mainly with dysentery). On recovery, these men were sent to Regular battalions during 1916. Because the Regular Army and the T.F. were seperate Admin entities until the renumbering in March 1917, these men were renumbered into a Regular Army series.

In short, I would say you man saw overseas service with a T.F. battalion (perhaps in 1915), came back to the UK, and then transferred to a Regular battalion (possibly the 1st, possibly not) and was renumbered at that point (the latter half of 1916 would always be statistically most likely.

Later in the war, the differentiation between T.F. and Regular Army ceased and you stop seeing this sort of number change....

I also think that this was a batch of transfers - note that the numbers in the range 21280 to 21289 are all "M"s and "Ns" - the Army loved alphabettically ordering its batches of transfers. You can probably indentify the men in this batch by running through the numbers either side. After that you can see if there are any online service records available. Most men in the batch/Draft would have transferred to the KSLI and embarked overseas at a similar time.

If the 1320 number is a T.F. one it probably dates to c.1911 to 1912-ish, so we would expect to see him come up to the end of his Term of Engagement around 1915-1916, so either the wounding or the re-joining theories would be equally valid.

EDIT: The flaw in the theory is that none of the KSLI battalions had served in a theatre of war at that point....

Steve.

[David_Underdown]

Hi Annette,

it appears that he first enlisted on 1st April 1908, but then, `Joined for Duty`, on 5th August 1914, at Ludlow.

Incidentally, what would a Warrant Officer` Class 11, duties involve?. I hope this can be of use to you in a small way. Cresser.

Remember taht the Yeomanry were part of the Territorial Force (much like today's Territorial Army), so I'd imagine he joined up in 1908 as you say, and did the regular training sessions and annual camps and so on. I had understood that most of the TF was on its annual exercises when war was declared on 4 August 1914, but perhaps he'd been excused for some reason, but once war was actually declared he went to joined the regiment at Ludlow - http://www.1914-1918.net/shropshire.htm[/url states that C Squadron was based at Ludlow, and the unit as a whole moved to Oswestry on mobilisation, presumably stores and so on would have had to have been moved from Ludlow to Oswestry. A Warrant Officer Class II would normally hold the appointment of Troop Sergeant Major or similar I think.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi everyone who have posted since my last post, I will get back to all, every time I have been on forum just lately, I have had to go do something else before getting around to reply sorry

Annette

[Myrtle]

Hi Annette

You may be interested in this thread.

LINK

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Cresser

Here are the rest of the brief details of 10th Battalion's movements in France/Flanders, which is mostly from Regimental History.

25th June 1918 moved to Aire, and carried on with Infantry training.

10th July took over trenches at St. Floris, remining in these trenches, and rest in La Haye, throughout July. Carrying out small daylight raid on 27th July. Germans tried a raid themselves on 29th July but were wiped out.

3rd August The Battalion tried another raid but held up by second belt of thick wire.

4th August relieved.

21st August return to trenches at St. Floris.

22nd August Advanced at short notice, through high standing corn, which concealed German positions, the Battalion was met with heavy fire, followed by German counter-attack, and after severe hand-to-hand fighting the Battalion was forced back to its start line.

24th August relieved

29th August moved to Mericourt via Ribemont.

2nd Sept. Battalion march to Clery-sur-Somme, in reserve to an attack made by other units of their Division.

3rd Sept. advance north-east to Boucheauvesnes, in support of 229th Brigade.

6th Sept. Take over trenches at Templeux.

7th Sept. 6.30 a.m. pass through 230th Bde. at Longavesnes and attack Villers Faucon, which they capture by midday.

8th Sept. move to Longavesnes for rest.

18th Sept. General advance. 10th K.S.L.I. in support of 16th Devons, south of Epehy,they pass through Devons about 8.30 a.m. and take their objective by midday ? (according to Regimental History) but according to Official History, the 10th K.S.L.I. & 25th R.W.F. were held up due to heavy M.G. fire. The second objective was bombarded again and the Shropshires gained some ground on it's right towards 4 p.m. and later the rest of its objective .

19th Sept. A small advance is made.

20th Sept. Time spent consolidating the line and preparing for attack on Hindenburg line at Guillemont Farm.

21st Sept.Advance by 74th Division, but they had failed to take Quadrilateral, east of Basse Boulogne. The 10th K.S.L.I. were called on to take it, they met severe opposition, by midnight the Quadrilateral was still in German hands.

22nd Sept. 1 a.m. 10th K.S.L.I. rallied and advance under cover of artillery fire, and after desperate fighting take the Quadrilateral. Relived that night and return to support trenches.

25th Sept. march to Peronne and entrain for Villers Bretoneux.

28th Sept arrive at Chocques and march to La Vallee.

3rd Oct. take over trenches east of Herlies.

9th Oct. "C" Coy make unsuccussful raid on La Haie, 20 men (mostly of a new draft) cut off and captured.

10th Oct. relived and withdraw to Herlies.

The 74th Division start a steady advance.

17th Oct. 10th K.S.L.I. reach Faches. The Battalion continue through Lesquin and Merchin to Haudion, arriving on 20th Oct.

30th Oct. take over trenches at Marquain

2nd Nov. raid on German trenches.

9th Nov. 10th K.S.L.I. drive Germans out of Tournai. At nightfall move to Marais

10th Nov. Move to Basdoux, thence to Mainvault via Ostiches arriving on 17th Nov.

18th Nov. arrived Havinnes

15th Dec. move to Gramont.

21st June 1919 cadre return to Shrewsbury.

Annette

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Stanley

Henry James Spencer, enlisted around Feb. 1909 and like Staff. Sgt. Jones, wound have been tranfarred to 10th K.S.L.I. on 16-12-16 (on paper at any rate). Not sure when he joined the Warwickshire Regt. but likely to have been around same time as Staff. Sgt. Jones. I do not think Henry rejoined the K.S.L.I. but again do not know this for sure. Sorry but that is all I have.

Annette

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Chris

I have just spoken to my elderly mother who showed me something I've never seen before. A kind of embroidered handkerchief with the KSLI crest on it and 'Fermoy'. It did belong to my Grandfather. Is it possible he would be sent to Fermoy while recuperating from the effects of gas? I presume he then rejoined his battalion in France after that.

I know he finished the war in France.

Yes it's very likely that he joined The 3rd Battalion, which had moved to Queenstown Harbour, Ireland in December 1917, and after as short stay here (Regimental History does not say how long) it moved to Fermoy, where it continued training new drafts and returning wounded and sick soldiers back to full fitness.

Annette

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Dave

I can only repeat that William John Norry was not wounded at Hooge 1915 but Edward Norry could very well have been wounded at Hooge in 1915, as he was with the K.S.L.I. then.

William John Norry is on the K.S.L.I. - T.A. medal roll, and the British/Victory roll but he is not on the 15 star roll, this means he served either in Rangoon or Hong Kong or both. The ornaments and fans that Billy brought back from China (an old 4th Battalion chap I know also called Hong Kong China) ties in with Hong Kong.

So this is how I see it William joined 4th K.S.L.I. around Jan 1911, and given number 1320. Mobilized on 4th August (the Battalion had been on annual training at Glan Rheidol, Aberystwith but sent back to it's various headquarters to await orders on the 3rd Aug.), Later the 4th Battalion made it's way to Cadoxton, Berry Docks. On 4th Sept. it moved to Sittingboune, Kent. 85 % of Battalion volunteered for overseas service, and it set sail on 28th Oct 1914 for India, and soon after moved to Rangoon, I am not sure if he was amoung this group or whether he joined the Battalion in May 1916, when a large draft joined the Battalion in Hong Kong/Singapore. The 1/4th did not return to U.K. until July 1917, so William must have returned to U.k. some time before late Dec. 1916. He would have transferred to the 3rd K.S.L.I. (on paper) about Dec. 1916, then posted to France 12-12-16, landed in France 13-12-16 and join 4th I.B.D., he is likely to have been posted to 5th Batt. (but never joined them), then reposted to 1st Batt. on 23-12-16 and joined that Battalion next day. Wounded around about 20-11-17 ?. Not sure when he rejoined the 1st Battalion.

21293 George R., Norry, is very likely to have also been in 4th K.S.L.I. but I do not think he served in Rangoon or Hong Kong/Singapore because he only as British/Victory medals. Like William he would have been Trans. to 3rd K.S.L.I. (on paper) about Dec. 1916, posted to France 12-12-16, landed in France 13-12-16 and go to 4th I.B.D., posted to 5th Batt. but I am not sure if he also went to the 1st Batt. but there is a good chance he did. Later transferred to L.C. about Aug 1917 ? with number 355860. He as Silver War Badge (List LC/410).

10303 Edward Norry, enlisted about early Sept. 1913, and joined the 1st Batt. He landed in France with 1st Batt. on 10-09-14. He is recored wounded with 1st Batt. in Newport & market Drayton Advertiser'10 July 1915, and it may be he was wounded again in October 1915 (I do not have all the wounded lists yet). Absent voters records he was with 2nd Batt. by 1918. He as Silver War Badge (list J/1789/1).

There is also a 11598 Pte. John, Norry, who's number falls amoung serveral men you enlisted at Ironbridge, do you know if he is related ?

Annette

[6th Shropshires]

Thanks for the link Myrtle.

Annette

[JumpJetGuy]

Hi all

Most of the Pals will know that I am compiling a database of all the men who joined the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry (Great War only) but many new Pals may not be aware of this. Any information would be greatfully received. Also willing to do look ups for anyone with K.S.L.I. interest.

One day when finished I will make the database available to Library service or who ever can make best use of it.

Annette

Hi Annette,

Sorry to bother you as you seem to be in much demand.However please take a look at Forum Pte Albert Edward Higgs,as you may wish to add this info to your database.Also please may i request any assistance you could give me.As ti finding out which Division/Brigade my Grandfather would have served with.

cheers Colin

[docchippy]

Annette

I would be very grateful if you could provide any details on the following two KSLI men:

6666 Pte Joseph Binns to F&F 23 March 1915 KSLI

2589 (later 230445) Pte Leonard W Purcell, KSLI. (Assume ex Shrops Yeomanry and later 10th KSLI?)

Many thanks

Neil

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Neil

Do not have much on either man,

6666 Pte Joseph Binns was either Army Reserve or Special Reserve but I do not know which, if he was Army Res. then he would have enlisted around June 1901, going into Reserve some where around 1908-09 ?. If Special Reserve then he would have enlisted early August 1914. His 1914-15 Star roll entry records 1st Battalion, I do not have his Victory/British medal roll entry yet, so can not say if remained with the 1st or moved to others battalion. He went to Class Z Reserve on 15-03-19 (I think as the text in my photo of the page is not clear.

2589 (later 230445) Pte Leonard Walter Purcell, was like you say ex 2/1st Shrops Yeomanry, enlisted around June/July 1915 (I have limited info. on Shrops. Yeomanry enlistment dates). Trans. to 10/K.S.L.I. on 16-12-16 on paper at any rate, according to Regimental History the Shrops. and Cheshire Yeomanry amalgamated in early March 1917 and became the 10th Battalion.

Absent voters records his residence as 36 Green End, Whitchurch, Shropshire.

Sorry but thats all I have on each man.

Annette

[docchippy]

Many thanks Annette

Neil

[narnie]

hello Annette, I was wondering if you may have information on my great uncle. This is what I know about him.

17049 private John James Keay . I think he was in the 7thBn. I know he was killed at verdun, and he is on the thiepvil war momument.

When I was looking for info on him I found a John James Keay in the same area, Bilston, but with a service number 15430, I believe it was stafford regt he enlisted with. He was with the KSLI when he died and I have found records of this. Just very confused.

His date of death is 18/07/1916. funny really that is my birthdate, but in 1962 not 1916, haha

thankyou very much if you are able to help me

[6th Shropshires]

Hi narnie

17049 private John James Keay would have enlisted into K.S.L.I. around early May 1915. 15430 John James Keay may be a differant person ? or it could that he enlisted into the Staffords, then discharged, and then re-enlisted into the Shropshires ?

17049 private John James Keay was killed with the 7th K.S.L.I. while holding trenches they helped capture just east of Bazentin le Grand, on the Somme.

Annette

[Dawley Jockey]

Hi Annette,

I am looking for a bit of help in researching a KSLI soldier for a family, unfortunately i have very little to go on and realising my limited knowledge about the KSLI is no where near yours hence my request.

The family know that he served with the KSLI and at some point ended up in hospital on Malta, he carried on serving with the KSLI after the war and returned (apparently with the regt) to Malta and married a nurse he had met at the hospital in 1921. Now the tricky bit the family say his name was Albert Thomas Owen, they think being born in the Shifnal area in approx 1897, however his christian name could have been Herbert.

They say that he was a buglar/stretcher bearer (Which makes sense) but when I have tried to check the medal roll I got no hits in the Shropshires for an Albert Owen however I did find a Herbert Owen 201324 (1/4th batt number I think) and also a Herbert J Owen 16349 KSLI/ 665794 labour corp.

If I could find his regt number and battalion I could then go on to outline his war service to the family. The name Herbert cropped up when they found records of a Herbert Owen KSLI marrying on Malta to a Mary Gatt which is the Grandmothers name, However on a family birth cert it states Albert Thomas as his name.

I hope that all makes sense and any help would be much appreciated

all the best,

Dave

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Dave

Like you I could not find a Albert Thomas or evan Albert who went overseas with K.S.L.I. Also looked at Thomas but they all looked unlikely.

16349 Cpl. Owen, Herbert John, resided at 4 Kempton, Clunbury, according to Absent Voters, and

201324 Pte. Owen, Herbert, resided at Llyndy Cottage, Llanyblodwell Nr. Oswestry according to Absent Voters. So not so sure it's either of them.

How sure are they that he served in K.S.L.I., I do not think none of the K.S.L.I. battalions return to Malta area after the war, all the service ones were disbanded. The 1st returned to UK in April and moved to Aden in Nov. 1919, then Bombay. The 2nd return to UK in July 1919, and from then to 1922 it was in Ireland. And I would guess that the 1/4th would turn to it roll of as UK based unit. The 3rd Batt. was also UK based unit.

Annette

[narnie]

Hi narnie

17049 private John James Keay would have enlisted into K.S.L.I. around early May 1915. 15430 John James Keay may be a differant person ? or it could that he enlisted into the Staffords, then discharged, and then re-enlisted into the Shropshires ?

17049 private John James Keay was killed with the 7th K.S.L.I. while holding trenches they helped capture just east of Bazentin le Grand, on the Somme.

Annette

Thankyou so much for that Annette. Would he have a grave? or just his name on the momument? I know the plaque number and face where he is. It just makes him more real and I feel I have done what my nan and her sister never could do, Find him. Very emotional I Feel.

RIP John James Keay.18/07/ 1916

[narnie]

hi annette,

hope you can help me with this one for a friend.

31521 George Osborne Howell killed 26th march 1918. Would you have any information about him please

He was in the 1st/4thbn and my friend is wondering where they where during march 1918.

thankyo Narnie