George Rayner Posted 9 May , 2019 Share Posted 9 May , 2019 Well done gents on your evening's work. Sorry I missed the fun-bowls at Kenninghall Lion. I won. Team lost. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 9 May , 2019 Share Posted 9 May , 2019 13 minutes ago, George Rayner said: Well done gents on your evening's work. Sorry I missed the fun-bowls at Kenninghall Lion. I won. Team lost. George Well done George. Remember, it's not the taking part that's important, it's the winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 9 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2019 10 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Well done George. Remember, it's not the taking part that's important, it's the winning Go on ya good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 One more if I may, he looks like he could qualify if the vital sheet can be found. A soldier from Kerry. He is not listed in FMP. Can you help me please? Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 3 minutes ago, museumtom said: One more if I may, he looks like he could qualify if the vital sheet can be found. A soldier from Kerry. He is not listed in FMP. Can you help me please? Kind regards. Tom. https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=cla496&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=ukarmyregisterseffects&gsfn=frank&msddy=1918&msddm=11&msddd=21&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=9&h=736308&recoff=&ml_rpos=10 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 (edited) 2 Pension ledgers for Frank https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/645806941 and https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/645029063 Discharged 8 Sep 17 and pensioned for TB. Craig Edited 10 May , 2019 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 A great find Craig!! thank you very much indeed. I could not find him of FMP, can you please? Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 9 minutes ago, museumtom said: A great find Craig!! thank you very much indeed. I could not find him of FMP, can you please? Kind regards. Tom. Couldn't see him Tom. Just the Pension Ledger confirming he was pensioned for TB. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Thanks for looking anyway Craig, I sent on the urls to Terry, fingers crossed. Thanks again Craig! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Nope, he did not make it. Terry says there is no attributable TB in the records, sorry lads. Onward and upward! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Found a record for John Fitzgerald 3179 Leinster Regiment attested 18 October 1891. Transferred to 1st Battalion Norfolk Regiment 18th September 1894. Discharged, medically unfit with Dementia 11th September 1894. Not a lot of help I'm afraid. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 20 minutes ago, museumtom said: Nope, he did not make it. Terry says there is no attributable TB in the records, sorry lads. Onward and upward! Kind regards. Tom. Who ? Flaherty ? I would challenge that rejection Tom. The pensions were paid only the basis that an illness/injury was attributable or aggravated by service. The snippet I posted a few weeks ago about pensions & TB confirms that TB was pensionable unless the army could prove otherwise. To me there's a clear attribution on several points - I would also add that the dependants pension (paid to his mother) was only paid where the man was entitled to a pension in the first place. I'll post something with the reasoning behind it shortly. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 (edited) The family received a dependants pension under Article 21(1)(b).https://www.westernfrontassociation.com:2061/image/645806941 Article 21(1)(b) states - note that is states the criteria are those under Article 11 in regards to the death. Article 11 The Articles are from the consolidated Royal Pension Warrant. As you can see, regardless of what the man died of, the family had to prove it was war related to get the pension in any case. Therefore, although the man's pension card also confirms he was pensioned with TB, the fact that there was a dependant's pension under Article 21(1)(b) tells us it was a war related death anyway, Craig Edited 10 May , 2019 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Hello Craig, I did not read his records, but it must say in them that he died from what he was discharged with and it was caused by or attributable to war service. Does it say that in his records please? If I does I will certainly submit it again. His exact words are 'Nothing on Ancestry to help. No evidence of service attributable.' The reason seems very specific now, wheres it seems it was more lax during and after the war. Often I come across lads in the CWGC that would not qualify if we submitted them nowadays. Good man Bob, it looks like a hit, but no war service and I am not sure if peritonitis is acceptable. I do appreciate you trying for me! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, museumtom said: Hello Craig, I did not read his records, but it must say in them that he died from what he was discharged with and it was caused by or attributable to war service. Does it say that in his records please? If I does I will certainly submit it again. His exact words are 'Nothing on Ancestry to help. No evidence of service attributable.' The reason seems very specific now, wheres it seems it was more lax during and after the war. Often I come across lads in the CWGC that would not qualify if we submitted them nowadays. Good man Bob, it looks like a hit, but no war service and I am not sure if peritonitis is acceptable. I do appreciate you trying for me! Kind regards. Tom. There is no wording that directly states 'attributable' Tom as his service records are missing but there should be no need to. The CWGC criteria as I understand it is that a man died of something that was aggravated by or attributed to service within the qualifying period. The pension was paid by the MoP only where they had verified the death was war related. To have received the pension in the first place the same criteria that the CWGC are using had to be proved under Article 11, without it the claim was rejected and no pension paid. To me it is remiss to reject a man just because his service record no longer survives, due to a quirk of fate, where other contemporary records show by other means that his death was 'aggravated by or attributed to service'. p.s. Nothing personal at you Tom - without your work none of this would have come about in the first place ! Craig Edited 10 May , 2019 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Thanks for the comments Craig, you really are too kind. Logic does not come into it Craig. It has to say attributable or caused by or we are hitting our heads against a stone wall. I can give you Terry's eaddy if you fancy putting it to him? Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 3 minutes ago, museumtom said: Thanks for the comments Craig, you really are too kind. Logic does not come into it Craig. It has to say attributable or caused by or we are hitting our heads against a stone wall. I can give you Terry's eaddy if you fancy putting it to him? Kind regards. Tom. It may be a battle I will take up in future Tom - I think I may well come back to some of these cases when I have some painkillers ready. Let's just say that I agree with you over logic. Anyway, for now, onwards and upwards ! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Right so Craig. How's your stress level? There will be more to come I assure you, so get the tablets at the ready, and ....we are off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 1 minute ago, museumtom said: Right so Craig. How's your stress level? There will be more to come I assure you, so get the tablets at the ready, and ....we are off! I must be in a good mood today I've just agreed to an extra court sitting on Monday so... Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Have you not been convicted yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Just now, museumtom said: Have you not been convicted yet? Justice, like some other things, is never quick or easy ! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 10 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2019 'nuff said Craig, 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 (edited) Appears to be the Stoker James Fox born 2/5/1885. Died as above. Buried Crosstown Cemetery, Wexford. Number T/2484 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/142105521 Edited 10 May , 2019 by Mark1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Afternoon Enrolled 6/11/1907 ; Anson Battalion 'A' Company 15/9/14-26/2/16 to UK Leave ; 29/4/16 transferred to Devonport ; Discharged Invalided at RN Hospital Plymouth (HMS "Vivid II") 21/3/17 for Pulmonary Tuberculosis (attributable to service). Silver War Badge No.9527 issued. ; Notified as accepted for commemoration by CWGC in August 2007 ; Anson Battalion UK Leave party 26/2/16 ; b.Wexford 2/5/1885 ; Son of John & Sarah Fox, Corn Market, Wexford ; Next-of-Kin: Aunt, Maggie Murphy, Cornmarket, Wexford. ; Brother, M. Fox, 202 Liscard Rd., Wallasey ; GRO Ireland = March Qr. 1918, age 32, Wexford, Vol.4, page 499, Bachelor, Naval Pensioner, Informant: Brother, Michael Fox, present at death, Cornmarket, Wexford. Try this on FMP Tom https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/1914-STAR/281 George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 10 May , 2019 Share Posted 10 May , 2019 Just going to add he was RND - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7271922 George beat me to it. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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