Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 You're right Tom. Good spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 7 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Thanks Dyfed, this is a new experience for me, to be right. It will take a bit of getting used to. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 I think, after looking again, I agree re Carroll - the records are a total mess though (at one point he's noted as 49yrs old) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 The WO363 records are usually the service records of men who didn't make a pension claim. Also known as the burnt records. WO364 are the service records of men who did make a claim, I don't know if they were kept away from Arnside, or whether they were in a more robust shed, but are known as the unburnt records. Soldiers have one or the other. I assumed that Carrolls was from the unburnt series (364) but I could well be wrong. His SWB does carry details of his discharge, but not his death, the Roll might be different, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Just now, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: The WO363 records are usually the service records of men who didn't make a pension claim. Also known as the burnt records. WO364 are the service records of men who did make a claim, I don't know if they were kept away from Arnside, or whether they were in a more robust shed, but are known as the unburnt records. Soldiers have one or the other. I assumed that Carrolls was from the unburnt series (364) but I could well be wrong. His SWB does carry details of his discharge, but not his death, the Roll might be different, The FMP record is from WO363. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said: I think, after looking again, I agree re Carroll - the records are a total mess though (at one point he's noted as 49yrs old) Craig I think that 47 must be close, as he was 29 in 1899 according to his records. It could be the DC that is wrong. Craig, could you check the Medal Roll to exclude the 2487 number? Ta. Just now, ss002d6252 said: The FMP record is from WO363. Craig OK. Is it the same file as his Ancestry Pension Record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Is it the same file as his Ancestry Pension Record? Yes Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 (edited) I have a feeling this is his earilier enlistment - seems he served out a period and re-enlisted in the early 1900's and was discharged due to making false statements on attestation. https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1114&h=763855&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=cla437&_phstart=successSource Medal rolls seems to have only #247 from what I can see. Craig Edited 7 May , 2019 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Getting confused. George Carroll 4487 Royal Irish Regiment, born Waterford about 1872. George Carroll 247 Royal Irish Regiment born Waterford 1883. Looks like two different men. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 1 minute ago, little bob said: Getting confused. George Carroll 4487 Royal Irish Regiment, born Waterford about 1872. George Carroll 247 Royal Irish Regiment born Waterford 1883. Looks like two different men. Bob Nothing particular rests on it I think but we know he had served before (and the fathers name matches the earlier record - as per the marriage cert and known record for the man). I think he's adjusted his age but we may never know for certain. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 7 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2019 What great observations lads. You can see each of you have their own specific talent for delving into the records, and knowing where to dig. Thanks again for all the help. Having said that I sent 13 in this morning to Terry, and George was one of them.Fingers crossed!! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Cheers Craig. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, museumtom said: Hows about this one please? I would almost bet he is not in the CWGC. Can you help please? Kind regards. Tom. Following up George's research into this man. SS HYNDFORD was torpedoed south of Beachy Head on 15 March 1915. So the two men noted as HYNFORD were probably survivors. Seaman John BURRAGE of the Newfoundland RNR appears on the Newfoundland RNR Medal Roll and is on CWGC as "HYNDFORD" even though he died (of 'flu?) more than three years after the U-boat incident. HYNDFORD survived the 1915 attack and he may have served in her later. This does not mean that George McDONALD was also Newfoundland RNR. No RN rating in ADM 188 records, or medal rolls (RN, NF RNR or RNR) or CWGC matches him. His age tells against his being still serving in the naval service (16 years over naval pension age) at death. It is possible that he was a merchant seaman, perhaps with earlier RNR service. Such an early RNR enrolment would have been well before 1908 (when he was aged 45) and RNR records pre-1908 are few. He does not feature amongst these. My guess is that McDONALD was a merchant seaman (possibly with pre-WW1 RNR service) in HYNDFORD and, like McDONALD, may have died of 'flu in November 1918, either side of the Armistice. As such he would not qualify for CWGC. Edited 7 May , 2019 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 7 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Now this one will probably be one of the hardest you have to date. All you know is he died 02/02/1918, aged 22 and lived in Digges Street, Dublin. He died from TB so at his young age and ex army he must have been discharged with it. I had a look in FMP and there are some in there that might fit but none that I have seen says Digges Street. Perhaps if he had a pension it might tie it all together but I dont really know. Can you help please? Thank you very much horatio2, lovely observations and analysis. I have to agree with you, if he died of flu he would not qualify. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, museumtom said: Now this one will probably be one of the hardest you have to date. All you know is he died 02/02/1918, aged 22 and lived in Digges Street, Dublin. He died from TB so at his young age and ex army he must have been discharged with it. I had a look in FMP and there are some in there that might fit but none that I have seen says Digges Street. Perhaps if he had a pension it might tie it all together but I dont really know. Can you help please? Thank you very much horatio2, lovely observations and analysis. I have to agree with you, if he died of flu he would not qualify. Thanks again! Possibly this man https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=cla443&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=ukarmyregisterseffects&gsln=cassidy&cp=0&msddy=1918&msddm=1&msddd=2&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=155388&recoff=&ml_rpos=1 CWGC for this man - https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/CWGC/ROLLOFHONOUR/000161847 Note the service number on CWGC is 4685. Craig Edited 7 May , 2019 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 37 minutes ago, museumtom said: Now this one will probably be one of the hardest you have to date. All you know is he died 02/02/1918, aged 22 and lived in Digges Street, Dublin. He died from TB so at his young age and ex army he must have been discharged with it. I had a look in FMP and there are some in there that might fit but none that I have seen says Digges Street. Perhaps if he had a pension it might tie it all together but I dont really know. Can you help please? Thank you very much horatio2, lovely observations and analysis. I have to agree with you, if he died of flu he would not qualify. Thanks again! What date is given for registration of the death ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 George McDonald ( Macdonald) is not on the Canadian Virtual War Memorial which includes members of the Newfoundland Royal Naval Reserve. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 (edited) Afternoon James Cassidy 4685 Private J. Cassidy M.M. The Leinster Regiment. Son of Mr. J. Cassidy, of 14, Court St., Dublin. Death James Z cassidy, aged 22, a bachelor, an ex-soldier, late of 15 Upper Digges Street, Dublin, died at The South Dublin Union Workhouse, on 2 January 1918. The cause of death was Phthisis Pulmonalis Acutus, certified https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/57621265 Courtesy of Find A Grave Note it says M.M.-so... Gazetted 19/8/1919!!! https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31512/supplement/10577/data.pdf George Edited 7 May , 2019 by George Rayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 7 May , 2019 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Thank you very much Craig, George and Bob. Excellent work all round. I am very grateful for all your help. The register of the death was 03/02/1918. Gazetted 19/08/1919 sounds like one of my typo's. Kindest regards, and thank you all again.You made it look like easy work but I know it was not at all. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 That really is the date of the Gazette! See URL above-so must have been a long while in process George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Cassidy was discharged 3 Jan 18 as per the medal roll. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_625537_9756-00218?pid=5592840&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dcla465%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Diwoservicemedalawardrolls%26gsln%3Dcassidy%26cp%3D11%26_F8007A65%3D4685%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D784%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D5592840%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=cla465&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Oh hello! He's changed to a John! George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 3 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Cassidy was discharged 3 Jan 18 I'm not surprised. He died the day before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Just now, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: I'm not surprised. He died the day before... It matches the date in the Effects, so just army efficiency at it's best (can't be dying before permission has been given) - indicates he was still serving when he died although the cert seems to read 'ex-soldier'. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 7 May , 2019 Share Posted 7 May , 2019 Can anybody find any information about the M.M. at all? I'm not experienced enough to have the routes to follow I'm afraid. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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