Postcards

[Daniel Cox]

29 minutes ago, SHJ said:

 

I was thinking the same but when I squint at the cap badges... RFC?

 

They are AFC not RFC members, so being AFC they wore The Australian Rising Sun badge.

 

And for comparison the same types of badges, in this instance as worn by my great-grandfather who served in the AIF during the First World War and VDC in the Second. Plus a modern iteration of the same badge, in the guise of one on an old KFF Hat (Slouch Hat) that I wore when I served.

 

 

Edited 8 January , 2021 by Daniel Cox

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, Daniel Cox said:

 

The Nominal Roll for The Australian Flying Corps October 1916, to October 197, Reinforcements, and Nos. 1 and 2 Special Drafts. Identifies 7 AFC Officers, plus more AFC Other Ranks as being aboard HMAT Shropshire A9 during May 1917.

 

Of which at least six of those officers and perhaps seven of them, in that postcard are six or all of the seven named below.

 

Edward Barlow

Rupert Henry Lea Caton

Jack Riverstone Faviell

Garnsey Henry Mead StClair Potts

Leslie Moore Sampson

Vincent George Moxey Sheppard

Jack Henry Weingarth

 

 

Excellent!  Thank you Daniel, I'm relieved that my initial thoughts turned out to be well founded.

[SHJ]

6 minutes ago, Daniel Cox said:

 

They are AFC not RFC members, so being AFC they wore The Australian Rising Sun badge.

Sorry - my bad.  Yes, I meant AFC.

[FROGSMILE]

22 minutes ago, SHJ said:

 

I was thinking the same but when I squint at the cap badges... RFC?

 

It looks like the Australian Commonwealth trophy of arms or sunburst to me.

Edited 8 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Daniel Cox]

It is also worth noting that generally members of The Australian Imperial Force didn't wear Corps badges on their uniforms.

Edited 8 January , 2021 by Daniel Cox

[Moonraker]

On 06/01/2021 at 13:27, FROGSMILE said:

... they have no insignia, and seem to still be wearing leather belts from indigenous Oliver equipment ...

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

 

 

Another super image, that looks like the packway to me, in one of the dips in the road between the Larkhill crest and the current Rollestone camp.

Edited 8 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

1 hour ago, SHJ said:

Oh I'd love to see those.  Are they in a Gallery?  There's just a chance (small I know - but there you are) that my Great Grand Uncle and/or his chums will be in them - the photo postcards I have inherited are the ones taken by Rosener and others and then sold directly to the troops. They are all Canadian and the same men appear in the images I have.

Sadly they're individually inserted in plastic pockets in an album. TBH the chances of your relative being included are very remote. There were some 30,000 Canadians on the Plain in late 1914.Here's one I scanned years ago, showing a happier bunch:

 

 

One of the fascinations of postcards is looking at them again and spotting new features. Here you can see that brand new huts have been built on brick piers. But the Wiltshire winds would blow under and up through gaps in  floorboards laid with unseasoned wood. The men would go to sleep in huts that had been heated by a stove and would wake up in icy cold. The result was far more illness and deaths compared with when they'd been in tents.

 

 

 

Edited 8 January , 2021 by Moonraker

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

Sadly they're individually inserted in plastic pockets in an album. TBH the chances of your relative being included are very remote. There were some 30,000 Canadians on the Plain in late 1914.Here's one I scanned years ago, showing a happier bunch:

 

One of the fascinations of postcards is looking at them again and spotting new features. Here you can see that brand new huts have been built on brick piers. But the Wiltshire winds would blow under and up through gaps in  floorboards laid with unseasoned wood. The men would go to sleep in huts that had been heated by a stove and would wake up in icy cold. The result was far more illness and deaths compared with when they'd been in tents.

 

 

 

 

It would be interesting to do a Rosener search in the Durrington/Amesbury Telephone Book (or its modern equivalent).

Edited 8 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

There is a Rosener in Amesbury USA. Seriously, I vaguely recall years ago looking through post-WWI local directories and couldn't see any reference to Rosener.

 

Anyone with an Ancestry subscription ...

 

Just come across another Rosener pic that I spotted on the GWF seven years ago.

 

 

Edited 8 January , 2021 by Moonraker

[Daniel Cox]

Hi All,

 

Here is another postcard that I have, which was made in Glasgow. Showing two soldiers who I think are probably relatives of my great-grandmother Violet McGregor. Of which I am a good while off, going down the path of figuring out who they are, so I am not looking for that information.

 

That said can anyone identify which unit/regiment the soldier in the kilt is from?

 

Cheers and goodnight,

 

 

Daniel.

 

 

[SHJ]

59 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

Here's one I scanned years ago, showing a happier bunch:

 

 

They've reverted to Canadian Pioneer mode and have proudly finished the hut.  That is a great photo.  Facial hair, jaunty hat angle, pipe - proper mates and I hope they teased Sgt about his dirty boots.

[FROGSMILE]

53 minutes ago, Daniel Cox said:

Hi All,

 

Here is another postcard that I have, which was made in Glasgow. Showing two soldiers who I think are probably relatives of my great-grandmother Violet McGregor. Of which I am a good while off, going down the path of figuring out who they are, so I am not looking for that information.

 

That said can anyone identify which unit/regiment the soldier in the kilt is from?

 

Cheers and goodnight,

 

 

Daniel.

 

It looks like the London Scottish, going by the Hodden Grey kilt and shape of cap badge.  They were a Territorial Force (auxiliaries) unit of the London Regiment formed in 1908 and before that had been a Volunteer Rifle Corps formed in the late 1850s.  A one time famous Hollywood matinee idol, Ronald Colman, served in the regiment.  I believe that they were the first TF unit to see action during WW1, at Messines.  They still exist, albeit as just a sub-unit, today.

 

 

Edited 8 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

8 minutes ago, SHJ said:

 

They've reverted to Canadian Pioneer mode and have proudly finished the hut.  That is a great photo.  Facial hair, jaunty hat angle, pipe - proper mates and I hope they teased Sgt about his dirty boots.

Has he gaiters on? Boots were a very sensitive subject in the First Contingent, their poor quality causing a national scandal back home.  On November 19th Alderson wrote to the Canadian Department of Militia and Defence to point out that the 'boots [are] not suitable for rough wear in wet weather', having been told the same day that 48,000 pairs of overshoes had been shipped to the Contingent. On December 5 he observed that these did not compensate for the faulty construction of the boots, some pairs of which were useless after ten days' wear.

 

The men of Lord Strathcona's Horse were envied after they acquired high boots and slickers, paid for by a fund organized by Lady Strathcona. On 27 January it was ordered throughout the Contingent that 'every man must be in possession of a pair of perfectly serviceable Imperial [British] pattern Army Regulation boots …. No Canadian pattern boots are to be taken overseas.' Officers were required to certify that every man was in possession of a pair of British boots.

 

[SHJ]

Here's a good page re the CEF Boots debacle: https://canadaatwarblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/first-contingent-c-e-f-first-world-war-boots-purchase-scandal-aug-1914/

[Surreyguardsman]

On 08/01/2021 at 16:48, FROGSMILE said:

 

It looks like the London Scottish, going by the Hodden Grey kilt and shape of cap badge.  They were a Territorial Force (auxiliaries) unit of the London Regiment formed in 1908 and before that had been a Volunteer Rifle Corps formed in the late 1850s.  A one time famous Hollywood matinee idol, Ronald Colman, served in the regiment.  I believe that they were the first TF unit to see action during WW1, at Messines.  They still exist, albeit as just a sub-unit, today.

 

 

Two Studio postcards showing the same Corporal serving with The London Scottish.

 

Simon.

[FROGSMILE]

Two fine studies, Simon.  Early on in the war, as both emergency 1914 belt and simplified jacket are worn, along with the short, spat gaiters soon replaced by short puttees. Regimental casualties were heavy at Messines and then again at Loos.  I doubt that he’s a survivor.  He would probably have worn a glengarry with that dress, which was (is still) unusual in having a garter blue toorie (top tassel).

 

Edited 10 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[SHJ]

 

On 28/11/2010 at 13:59, high wood said:

5965 Pte George F Phillips, London Irish Rifles later Pte 29833 Connaught Rangers and Mrs Phillips.

 

Am slowly working my way through this epic thread. What an amazing resource.  It's a shame some of the links don't work any more (think of researchers of the future!) but this image is incredibly powerful. Very arresting indeed.

Edited 12 January , 2021 by SHJ
space

[SHJ]

On 08/01/2021 at 15:32, FROGSMILE said:

It would be interesting to do a Rosener search in the Durrington/Amesbury Telephone Book (or its modern equivalent).

 

On 08/01/2021 at 16:09, Moonraker said:

There is a Rosener in Amesbury USA. Seriously, I vaguely recall years ago looking through post-WWI local directories and couldn't see any reference to Rosener.

 

I found the Rosener's in the 1911 UK census after spotting a rather overly British name of Nelson given to a young Rosener in Devon...   Here's a summary: 

 

Alfred Rosener married Grace Petty in 1908 and in the 1911 census they are living at 15 Marine Place, Seaton, Devon.  Alfred, a German national but UK resident since 1907 described himself as a Photographer & Hairdresser and Grace as a Tobacconist (ladies) and Hairdresser too.  Nelson Rosener is just 3 month old.

 

Alfred can be found departing for the USA (New Jersey) in October 1923 on the Berengaria now described as a Bee Keeper or Orchardist while Grace, Nelson and second son Cecil (12) follow them in March 1925 on the Orduna.  They were living in Croydon.

 

I have found some living relatives of Nelson and have asked them if they happen to have any photo's or negatives.  You never know!

 

Image courtesy genesreunited.

Edited 12 January , 2021 by SHJ
..

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, SHJ said:

 

 

I found the Rosener's in the 1911 UK census after spotting a rather overly British name of Nelson given to a young Rosener in Devon...   Here's a summary: 

 

Alfred Rosener married Grace Petty in 1908 and in the 1911 census they are living at 15 Marine Place, Seaton, Devon.  Alfred, a German national but UK resident since 1907 described himself as a Photographer & Hairdresser and Grace as a Tobacconist (ladies) and Hairdresser too.  Nelson Rosener is just 3 month old.

 

Alfred can be found departing for the USA (New Jersey) in October 1923 on the Berengaria now described as a Bee Keeper or Orchardist while Grace, Nelson and second son Cecil (12) follow them in March 1925 on the Orduna.  They were living in Croydon.

 

I have found some living relatives of Nelson and have asked them if they happen to have any photo's or negatives.  You never know!

 

Image courtesy genesreunited.

That’s very interesting SHJ, thank you for posting it.  Reading between the lines I rather suspect that post-war Mr Rosener experienced the double misfortune of living in a country with a decidedly negative view of Germans, and in the midst of an economic recession and retraction of public finances.  Conversely, the US had done very well out of the war, had an extremely cosmopolitan mix of nationalities, including German communities, and must have seemed a more welcoming, up and coming place to be.

Edited 12 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[SHJ]

Here's another Durrington Postcard from collection.  Reverse is blank sadly.  This one has very similar markings as Rosener but instead is "H C Rickards" or "Richards" perhaps working with Rosener or sharing Dark Room / processing.  Unidentified CEF Lance Corporal & chum of my Great Grandfathers brother 21166 Percy Edward Joiner (11th Battalion > PPCLI).

 

Simon.

Edited 21 January , 2021 by SHJ
ownership clarification

[Moonraker]

I suspect that Rosener and Rickards did not share the same facilities.The former seems to have been reasonably well established at the start of the war. I have only two cards published by the latter, both of late 1914. Another Durrington photographer of the very early war was Geo H Bott who published a few cards of hutments being built. I guess that Rickards and Bott saw a way to make a bit of money when thousands of soldiers came to the Plain after the outbreak of war.

 

But the best known local man was Marcus Bennett of Bulford Camp and Durrington,who took photographs of Members of Parliament and military attachés at Netheravon Concentration Camp and published them as postcards, at least one of which prominently featured an aeroplane. At that time the War Office was offering airfields posters permitting the public to photograph aeroplanes, but only from a distance of at least 40 yards and without telephoto lenses. Wiltshire-based army officers queried where these were to be displayed, pointing out that "it is quite impossible to state definitely when where [sic] an aircraft will be forced to land". Eventually it was agreed that they should be distributed within a ten-mile radius of Netheravon. A letter from the War Office to Southern Command observed that "Mr Fuller, a photographer of Amesbury, has been selling picture postcards of government aircraft taken during the concentration of the Royal Flying Corps (Military Wing) at Netheravon. From the size of the photographs, they have either been taken from within 40 yards of the aircraft or with a telephoto lens." The War Office added it was keen to establish quickly the principle of photography only at a distance. (AIR1/798/204/4/1025). The War Office seems to have overlooked the common means of placing a negative in an enlarger and projecting it at 2x, 3x  or 10x, say, and printing an enlargement. This process has been known since at least 1870.)

(In December 1914, Bennett noticed that his overcoat, and that of his assistant, Gustave Baker, was missing after he had entertained some Canadian soldiers to dinner; two of the latter later appeared in court and were fined 30s each.)

 

 

 

[GMB]

Gnr/Bmbr J Crook, W/3070

 

Entitled 14/15 trio (which I have in my possession)

 

John Frederick Crook, born 24/11/96 and lived at Beryl Road, Barry, South Wales.

 

Enlisted in 1915 & was part of the 122nd Brigade, 'A' battery of the 38th Welsh Division.

 

As part of the 38th Welsh, he was involved in the battle at Mametz Wood & was awarded a divisional citation for 'conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty, showing coolness and courage when his battery was being shelled in the open" (see article cutting below).

 

Following the war, he returned to Barry and worked at great Western Railways.

 

He died in January 1971, aged 75

 

 

Edited 13 January , 2021 by GMB

[Moonraker]

23 hours ago, SHJ said:

Am slowly working my way through this epic thread. What an amazing resource.  It's a shame some of the links don't work any more (think of researchers of the future!) but this image is incredibly powerful. Very arresting indeed.

Trouble is that it is perhaps a bit too epic and has become cumbersome, with posts about cards that have caused particular interest getting jumbled up. I'm probably one of the keenest collectors of postcards on the forum, but mostly in the context of  Wiltshire, and there have been times when I've felt images could be posted in sub-forums covering the topic shown. I confess to visiting this thread only irregularly, when I search within it for "Salisbury Plain".  It was only by chance that I noticed the post about the Rosener card.

 

Now I'm about to switch to another sub-forum to see if anything has been added to the thread about the Fred Wright postcard of a parade in Andover and then starting a new thread about another Fred Wright card I've just acquired of George V and his limousines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

19 hours ago, SHJ said:

Here's another Durrington Postcard.  Reverse is blank sadly.  This one has very similar markings as Rosener but instead is "H C Rickards" or "Richards" perhaps working with Rosener or sharing Dark Room / processing.  Unidentified CEF Lance Corporal & chum of my Great Grandfathers brother 21166 Percy Edward Joiner (11th Battalion > PPCLI).

 

Simon.

It’s interesting to me that it’s a typical stable block behind the mounted soldier in your photo.  Built to a standard design, we can see the rear side, and the main doors and ring bolts for tethering are on the opposing side.  My classroom whilst a member of the SASC at Support Weapons Wing, Netheravon, which had been the old pre-war cavalry school, was exactly the same, having been converted from a stable.

Edited 13 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE