Postcards

[gunnerwalker]

2 hours ago, TomWW1 said:

Stunning Photo! It’s sad to think when you see all these photos that all these men are dead and most died not long after the photo was taken 

Indeed. 

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Do you mean third from right as we look?

Yes that’s the one. 

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, gunnerwalker said:

Indeed. 

Yes that’s the one. 

Thank you I can see him now and assumed so because I couldn’t see his cuff rank, but could the others.

[gunnerwalker]

43 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

I found something interesting relating to this that might be worth sharing.

For context- this article excerpt relates to 'Fromelles' which appeared in the Bristol Evening Post on July 19, 1960. I have taken this small bit out as I am unable to take one of the whole page.
It relates to the 2/4 Battalion, Gloucesters- Lt R.G Scrase (as mentioned in the article) is listed as Killed in Action with the 2/4th Gloucesters on the CWGC. This paper attached says he's in 'A' Company, meaning he might be one of the officers in the postcard.

Alas, I found no picture of Scrase.

Thanks a lot, this is really helpful. However, I’m not sure this snip relates to the 2/4th but instead to the 1/4th - which is great as that’s where my interest lies.

I have in my research both Lt. Reginald George Scrase and 2/Lt. Donald Croft James as being killed on the 19th July 1916 while serving with the 1/4th.

B and D Coys attacked German trenches at Ovillers in the early hours of the 17th July. On the 18th, A and C Coys launched further attacks until the northern end of Ovillers was held by the end of the day. Another pre-dawn attack was hastily put together, around 2am on the 19th, for A and C Coys to push on but A Coy especially were held up by machine gun fire, including one that was set up firing down a trench they were using to advance parallel to C Coy. The Germans defending also set alight their abandoned dugouts, and the attacking companies were turned back.

I have copies of other named groups of officers from the reserve battalion throughout 1915, so I will check them through for Lts. Scrase and James.

Edited 2 May by gunnerwalker

[tankengine888]

16 minutes ago, gunnerwalker said:

Thanks a lot, this is really helpful. However, I’m not sure this snip relates to the 2/4th but instead to the 1/4th - which is great as that’s where my interest lies.

CWGC says Scrase was with the 2/4
The 2/4 War Diary states Scrase was killed (as was James, the 19 year old subaltern)
The newspaper snip (out of frame) mentions the 2/4, however I've forgotten the context- I've lost the article.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/811802/reginald-george-scrase/

[gunnerwalker]

21 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

CWGC says Scrase was with the 2/4
The 2/4 War Diary states Scrase was killed (as was James, the 19 year old subaltern)
The newspaper snip (out of frame) mentions the 2/4, however I've forgotten the context- I've lost the article.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/811802/reginald-george-scrase/

Oh that’s interesting. They both appear in a roll of honour for 1/4th casualties on the Somme. But if they’re in the 2/4th War Diary that’s pretty conclusive. Thank you.

[TomWW1]

A Postcard of the Ox and Bucks Light Infantry 

[Michelle Young]

To me it looks like a KOYLI cap badge. 

[CorporalPunishment]

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

To me it looks like a KOYLI cap badge. 

I agree.      Pete.

[sapperwho]

Man standing on the left seems to be showing off his stable belt. Maybe that might indicate which regiment?

[6RRF]

4 minutes ago, sapperwho said:

Man standing on the left seems to be showing off his stable belt. Maybe that might indicate which regiment?

 

it certainly looks like a stable belt, but surely its a bit early to see one ?

[sapperwho]

I really have no idea when stable belts were introduced .I just thought the chap seemed quite proud of the one he was wearing.

cheers John

[6RRF]

He does indeed, though my understanding is that the stable-belts as worn in my time were only just starting to be worn by infantry units from some time in the 1950s

[sapperwho]

I was encouraged  to buy mine when I was in the NUOTC in 1981. it seemed the proper thing to do.

Cheers John

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, 6RRF said:

….though my understanding is that the stable-belts as worn in my time were only just starting to be worn by infantry units from some time in the 1950s

That is correct.

The belt worn in the photo was commonly called a snake belt and usually comprised two colours in cotton web with an adjustable buckle.  Much later on they began to be made in elastic and many forum members might recall them from childhood.

The type of belt that evolved to become stable belts were marketed back then in plain cotton web or sometimes two or more coloured stripes.  They frequently had a leather pocket stitched to the belt in which money, or other valuable items could be kept.  Soldiers often purchased the belts to hold up high waisted trousers after unelasticated braces were shrugged off their shoulders.  It became popular to affix badges as souvenirs.

Edited 11 May by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 Much later on they began to be made in elastic and many forum members might recall them from childhood.

Indeed so FROGSMILE, I was very proud to wear mine, when I was aged 7 or 8

If I may add a link here to a very interesting web site which gives you all a concise history of the 'Stable Belt' and many pictures thereof.

http://www.stablebelts.co.uk/

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Indeed so FROGSMILE, I was very proud to wear mine, when I was aged 7 or 8

If I may add a link here to a very interesting web site which gives you all a concise history of the 'Stable Belt' and many pictures thereof.

http://www.stablebelts.co.uk/

I recall writing an evolution piece for that website about 15-years ago now, the site’s been added to a lot since then.

Edited 11 May by FROGSMILE

[TomWW1]

Sorry about misidentifying the last photo but here’s one that’s easy to identify 

[CorporalPunishment]

2 hours ago, TomWW1 said:

Sorry about misidentifying the last photo but here’s one that’s easy to identify 

The man standing furthest to the viewer's left is King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry and the man next to him is Royal Dublin Fusiliers. A 2nd Boer War veteran of the RAMC is next to them wearing the ribbons of the QSAM and the KSAM. Interesting photo.       Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

I too think it’s an interesting photo.

I am especially pleased to see the RDF soldier (rank unknown) wearing his regiment’s uniquely coloured and so highly distinctive peaked forage cap**, the top part (crown) of which was bright blue.

No other infantry regiment had a specially coloured crown to their forage cap, which commemorated the regiment’s nickname as “O’Neill’s Bluecaps” during the period of the Indian Mutiny (aka first Indian War of Independence), when their reputation for an especially vengeful fighting spirit was fearsomely regarded.

There’s also an interesting assortment of belts that were popular with sports kit as well as used for cinching in the high tops of service dress trousers.  There’s a canvas snake buckle belt and two slightly varying striped examples of what later became known as stable belts.

** unfortunately I’ve never been able to find a surviving example of one of these caps, of which an officer pattern was also worn.  They were first issued to other ranks in 1905 and remained in use until the regiment was sadly disbanded in 1922.  There cannot have been that many made. The officers’ pattern was seen from 1900 (photo below).  A folding field service cap of the same colour (a so-called Austrian type) was also worn by the officers.

Edited 11 May by FROGSMILE

[TomWW1]

23 hours ago, TomWW1 said:

A Postcard of the Ox and Bucks Light Infantry 

Higher Quality Scan with Postcard Reverse

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

I too think it’s an interesting photo.

I am especially pleased to see the RDF soldier (rank unknown) wearing his regiment’s uniquely coloured and so highly distinctive peaked forage cap**, the top part (crown) of which was bright blue.

No other infantry regiment had a specially coloured crown to their forage cap, which commemorated the regiment’s nickname as “O’Neill’s Bluecaps” during the period of the Indian Mutiny (aka first Indian War of Independence), when their reputation for an especially vengeful fighting spirit was fearsomely regarded.

There’s also an interesting assortment of belts that were popular with sports kit as well as used for cinching in the high tops of service dress trousers.  There’s a canvas snake buckle belt and two slightly varying striped examples of what later became known as stable belts.

** unfortunately I’ve never been able to find a surviving example of one of these caps, of which an officer pattern was also worn.  They were first issued to other ranks in 1905 and remained in use until the regiment was sadly disbanded in 1922.  There cannot have been that many made. The officers’ pattern was seen from 1900 (see photo below).  A folding field service cap of the same colour (a so-called Austrian type) was also worn by the officers.

Higher Quality Scan and Reverse

[TomWW1]

This postcard was originally pretty badly faded hence why i have tried to restore the photo

[Muerrisch]

On 16/04/2024 at 06:51, Alan24 said:

Thank you for your clarification, Andrew.

Just three brief addenda:

• all RAMC new recruits had to shoot an abbreviated musketry course. Easy to forget the savage wars of peace such as the everlasting NW Frontier strife.
• the protection of RAMC men, facilities and units was specifically provided by the ASC, who did indeed shoot the full annual classification course.
• RAMC officers might have been routinely armed with pistol and sword [not all RAMC officers were doctors of course]. I need to check this.

[FROGSMILE]

34 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

Just three brief addenda:

• all RAMC new recruits had to shoot an abbreviated musketry course. Easy to forget the savage wars of peace such as the everlasting NW Frontier strife.
• the protection of RAMC men, facilities and units was specifically provided by the ASC, who did indeed shoot the full annual classification course.
• RAMC officers might have been routinely armed with pistol and sword [not all RAMC officers were doctors of course]. I need to check this.

As so often this has been discussed to death:  

There is also good research on the RAMC role and duties here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK541852/#:~:text=They were not professional medical,in wartime was thus unique.

Edited 11 May by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

The Forum is fortunate to have such a diligent archivist, willing to go back, search, sift, copy and paste the gems of ancient wisdom offered by members past and present.

[TomWW1]

On 11/05/2024 at 16:19, TomWW1 said:

This postcard was originally pretty badly faded hence why i have tried to restore the photo

@FROGSMILE do you have any ideas what hospital this may be?