Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, poona guard said:

Are my eyes deceiving me or are the 1st Sussex using pre-war equipment?

If you mean the “shooting team” they are wearing 1908 Mills cotton web equipment as one would expect for a regular battalion.

1 hour ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Welsh Fusiliers

" To Florie From Harry With Best Love. xxxxx"

I wonder where that is, the masonry / stone work looks very sun bleached for Wales?

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[poona guard]

Even in 1919? The extra clip over the bottom ammunition holder didn't get to India?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, poona guard said:

Even in 1919? The extra clip over the bottom ammunition holder didn't get to India?

The web equipment might perhaps have been issued by the Indian Establishment (IE), which definitely had older equipment, and in any case older web equipment predating the lower pouches securing strap would almost certainly have been sent out to the IE post war to boost stocks, as it wasn’t a relevant ‘problem’ there given that the reason for the modification was the leaning and rubbing of equipment on trench walls on the Western Front.  The counter insurgency operations in India at that time were largely focused on the North West Frontier province and operations were predominantly fluid, with any defensive posture, usually just overnight, achieved from within stone built sangars.

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[Pete_C]

2 hours ago, poona guard said:

Even in 1919? The extra clip over the bottom ammunition holder didn't get to India?

Of the six men wearing web equipment only one has a pre October 1914 modification, 2nd issue, cartridge carrier - LoC 16979 introduced a short restraining strap added to the three lower pockets of the left hand carrier.
Although rare by the end of the war, 2nd issue unmodified carriers can still be seen in the odd 1918 Western Front photo.

Pete

 

 

Edited 29 March by Pete_C

[GWF1967]

"Regimental Goat"

Bugles and drums. Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

"Regimental Goat"

Bugles and drums. Royal Welsh Fusiliers.

Super photo of the corps of drums (term ‘bugles’ not used in title by heavy infantry - or at least not officially).  Do you know which battalion it was?  The average age is quite young and there are few obvious old soldiers as there usually would be in a regular battalion.  It looks to me like a ‘graduated battalion’ where they’re all around 19.

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Super photo of the corps of drums (term ‘bugles’ not used in title by heavy infantry).  Do you know which battalion it was?  The average age is quite young and there are few obvious old soldiers as there usually would be in a regular battalion.

Unfortunately no information regarding battalion.  

 The photograph is by Walshams Ltd. 60 Doughty St. London.

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Unfortunately no information regarding battalion.  

 The photograph is by Walshams Ltd. 60 Doughty St. London.

That suggests perhaps the 18th (Second London Welsh), which initially at least provided drafts of replacements for the 15th (First London Welsh).  From memory only I think that both battalions formed up at the same London venue (I need to check LLT).

Afternote:  LLT mentions ‘Grays Inn’. 

Edited 29 March by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

This is Ernest William Hurley. I have just started  researching him and see he started off in the Royal Marine Light Infantry and finished the war in the RFC/RAF. 

Any further info on him will be appreciated. The one with him in RAF uniform also includes his brothers I am yet to research (William Brice Hurley b 1903 and Leonard Charles Hurley b 1900). They came from Taunton area.

I am particularly interested in the MGC picture with Tank badge and Artificer badge as I can find no record of his service in these units. 

[George Rayner]

 

E W Hurley has a service record in ancestry which mentions MGC

A section from that record courtesy Ancestry. I think it says 

transferred to MGC with dates of 8th June 17 to 6th July 17

George

Edited 30 March by George Rayner

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

This is Ernest William Hurley. I have just started  researching him and see he started off in the Royal Marine Light Infantry and finished the war in the RFC/RAF. 

Any further info on him will be appreciated. The one with him in RAF uniform also includes his brothers I am yet to research (William Brice Hurley b 1903 and Leonard Charles Hurley b 1900). They came from Taunton area.

I am particularly interested in the MGC picture with Tank badge and Artificer badge as I can find no record of his service in these units. 

Very interesting to see such a mix of uniforms and also the combination of badges.  He is wearing the RFC’s so-called maternity (style) uniform in the first photo that was quite quickly phased out by the RAF.  The uniform with an artificers badge suggests that he was in the Heavy Section/Branch of the MGC (dependent on date) that provided the manning for the embryo tank force that evolved into the Tank Corps.  The arm badge suggests he was trained as an Armourer rather than a mechanician I think, as I understand that men working on the tank engines initially came from the ASC.  His peculiar mix of badges seems to depict a narrowly defined period.

The group photo shows it’s youngest member has enlisted as a Boy Entrant bugler, or perhaps more likely in a cadet unit (I think the Boy Entrant enlistment scheme was suspended during the war), of which there were a significant number, as by 1918 the government encouraged every kind of military training during that war of national survival.  He has trained as a bugler and the proficiency badge for that can be seen on his left arm.  I can see that he appears to have a blackened cap badge, but frustratingly I can’t quite make out what it is.  The circular waist belt clasp increases the likelihood that he’s a cadet as by that stage of the war it was rarely used by any combatant units.  His brown leather buttons also became common for cadets.  The cadets were all either, a part of school, or from units within the local community administered by a nearby Territorial Force battalion.  Knowing where he lived would help to narrow the options down.

Unfortunately I cannot identify anything specific about the third individual beyond that he’s wearing a standard SD jacket common across the Army.

NB.  It catches my eye how very neatly tied their puttees are, these are individuals who have all developed an easy familiarity with making themselves appear smart in uniform.

Edited 30 March by FROGSMILE

[George Rayner]

3 hours ago, Raster Scanning said:

The one with him in RAF uniform also includes his brothers I am yet to research (William Brice Hurley b 1903 and Leonard Charles Hurley b 1900)

I would suggest that the 'youngster' on the right may be younger than WB Hurley born 1903? Especially if compared to LC Hurley who is only three years older?

George

[Raster Scanning]

58 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

 

E W Hurley has a service record in ancestry which mentions MGC

A section from that record courtesy Ancestry. I think it says 

transferred to MGC with dates of 8th June 17 to 6th July 17

George

Thank you George, yes I dowloaded that as well. I also downloaded his RAF papers that do not list previous service (as they often do). So it appears he served in the RMLI until he transferred to the MGC in July 1917. He enlisted into the RFC 8-12-1917.

4 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

I would suggest that the 'youngster' on the right may be younger than WB Hurley born 1903? Especially if compared to LC Hurley who is only three years older?

George

The pictures come from the Granddaughter of Ernest William and she is quite confident in her details but I do agree with you and asked her the same. 

[George Rayner]

Transferred in June 1917 not July I think?

George

[Raster Scanning]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Very interesting to see such a mix of uniforms and also the combination of badges.  He is wearing the RFC’s so-called maternity (style) uniform in the first photo that was quite quickly phased out by the RAF.  The uniform with an artificers badge suggests that he was in the Heavy Branch of the MGC Section/Branch (dependent on date) that provided the manning for the embryo tank force that evolved into the Tank Corps.  The arm badge suggests he was trained as an Armourer rather than a mechanician I think.

The group photo shows it’s youngest member has enlisted as a Boy Entrant bugler, or perhaps more likely a cadet force (I think they might’ve suspended the Boy Entrant scheme during the war but I’m unsure), of which there were a significant number as the government encouraged every kind of military training during that war of national survival.  He has trained as a bugler and the proficiency badge for that can be seen on his arm.  I can see that he appears to have a blackened cap badge but frustratingly I can’t quite make out what it is.  The circular waist belt clasp increases the likelihood that he’s a cadet as by that stage of the war it was rarely used by any combatant units.

Thanks for that. I found an interesting thread on MGC/Tank Artificers from about 10 years ago that had some useful info too. The info on the boy is very useful. I got a better copy of the picture, it shows much more detail. There are two OS Service stripes on Ernest's sleeve and Williams cap badge (KRRC?) is clearer as well as his arm badges. Leonard's cap badge is also much clearer but for now I cannot identify it. As has been stated by George, William Brice Hurley looks young, but I estimate he is 15 /16 here. 

[Raster Scanning]

11 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Transferred in June 1917 not July I think?

George

Yes I agree thanks George.

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

Thanks for that. I found an interesting thread on MGC/Tank Artificers from about 10 years ago that had some useful info too. The info on the boy is very useful. I got a better copy of the picture, it shows much more detail. There are two OS Service stripes on Ernest's sleeve and Williams cap badge (KRRC?) is clearer as well as his arm badges. Leonard's cap badge is also much clearer but for now I cannot identify it. As has been stated by George, William Brice Hurley looks young, but I estimate he is 15 /16 here. 

Excellent I can see now that he’s a very smart member of the Church Lads Brigade with their smart Maltese Cross type badge and distinctive waistbelt clasp. 

Edited 30 March by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Excellent I can see now that he’s a very smart member of the Church Lads Brigade with their smart Maltese Cross type badge and distinctive waistbelt clasp. 

Brilliant thank you. 

I think this might be easy but I do not have my reference books to hand. Any idea on the unit?

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

Brilliant thank you. 

I think this might be easy but I do not have my reference books to hand. Any idea on the unit?

Royal Warwickshire Regiment.  I’m sorry I missed that - my eyes were so drawn to the boy’s insignia.

If you search within the forum “Church Lads Brigade” there are lots of interesting threads that illustrate the extent of their influence within oft described muscular Christianity, and somehow exemplify just how different we’ve become as a nation now.  Apparently the Junior Training Corps (JTC) branch of the CLB was for youngsters aged 10-14.  

Edited 30 March by FROGSMILE

[Raster Scanning]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

Royal Warwickshire Regiment.  I’m sorry I missed that - my eyes were so drawn to the boy’s insignia.

Thanks and I just came to same conclusion after a simple google for 'WW1 Cap badges with a hart on'

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Raster Scanning said:

Thanks and I just came to same conclusion after a simple google for 'WW1 Cap badges with a hart on'

As an image the group really encapsulates for me the war effort of families at that time.  A really evocative snapshot. 

[gunnerwalker]

"Our Clique on trenches after being consolidated. Oct 28th 1916."

Royal Engineers.

[gunnerwalker]

1181 Pte. Arthur Whinnett. 2/6th (Cyclist) Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment.

Born 1985 in Walworth. Lived in various places around south London: Battersea; Wimbledon; Wandsworth; and Tulse Hill, Brixton.

Served in India. Re-numbered 265663 and promoted up to A/CSM.

Later served in the Third Afghan War and awarded the India General Service Medal with Afghanistan North-West Frontier 1919 clasp. Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal, gazetted 3rd Sep 1920 (possibly also awarded a subsequent clasp).

Married Mabel Green in Lambeth in 1923. Worked as a solicitor's clerk and died in Lewes in 1967.

Edited 31 March by gunnerwalker

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, gunnerwalker said:

1181 Pte. Arthur Whinnett. 2/6th (Cyclist) Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment.

Born 1985 in Walworth. Lived in various places around south London: Battersea; Wimbledon; Wandsworth; and Tulse Hill, Brixton.

Served in India. Re-numbered 265663 and promoted up to A/CSM.

Later served in the Third Afghan War and awarded the India General Service Medal with Afghanistan North-West Frontier 1919 clasp. Awarded the Meritorious Service Medal, gazetted 3rd Sep 1920 (possibly also awarded a subsequent clasp).

Married Mabel Green in Lambeth in 1923. Worked as a solicitor's clerk and died in Lewes in 1967.

He did remarkably well for what seems a relatively short period of service albeit most of it in war and active service in India.  Do you know if he signed on subsequently as a regular?

[gunnerwalker]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

He did remarkably well for what seems a relatively short period of service albeit most of it in war and active service in India.  Do you know if he signed on subsequently as a regular?

His MSM citation refers to his service with the 2/6th still so he remained with the Territorials at least until 1920, but unsure if he became a regular after that. His service number suggests he enlisted around the turn of 1914/15 so might suggest his term of service ended in late 1922 or early 1923.