Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Alan24 said:

Those wearing the Red Cross were not allowed to carry arms, so that could also be one reason why you would want to remove it. 

I have read in one of the war diaries dismay by one senior officer having found RAMC men on sentry duty carrying rifles whilst at Suez. 

Yes I imagine it suited a dual purpose Alan.  The main concept of removability was quite a general one though, in that badges were seen as having a cost value, and attractive appearance, as well as marking a man’s achievement.  Richly embroidered in coloured threads, things like the Red Cross and signals flags, etc. some of just a few badges in bright colours, were seen as needing protection from damage during the cleaning/laundering of uniforms.

[mark holden]

Period photos and examples of original uniforms I have owned indicate that the Red Cross badge was stitched to the jacket and to both sleeves in most cases. The exception might be where press studs are used on KD uniform. The Red Cross armlet that Michel shows  appears to be worn whilst on duty being more identifiable to both friend and foe thus in theory affording the protection of the Geneva Convention.

[mark holden]

If anyone is interested in the RAMC in WW1 I recommend this book to you.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Medical-Corps-Great-Images/dp/1473892325/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=9AU584XJIHR0&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.TSNI7qsgyyzBQ1iwvZct4HM_0MLNwifk503JoOJga1h2MZX9hvWnsGR1vNc676H7cm-Y9-Gtl1Op80xbql9fMG3jsn-bmGpqTaD8h8dG2Y50gw0yn9I3XHQbblJib8URTBXyn9LU7AYHWSZdqszL3dFIINmdS16VFvSamPF1BMp4BUxz_6wjiS3pk6gDb2766O4cRICLGRenB8AN7WKx0w.qByORXEdkIWGrHMCPKzarJZU8-_stnKhRXMODA4rD8Y&dib_tag=se&keywords=royal+army+medical+corps+book&qid=1713175131&sprefix=royal+army+medical+corps+book%2Caps%2C261&sr=8-1

[RaySearching]

Unknown RAMC   (F Simpson Photographer)

[Andrew Upton]

6 hours ago, Alan24 said:

Those wearing the Red Cross were not allowed to carry arms, so that could also be one reason why you would want to remove it. 

I have read in one of the war diaries dismay by one senior officer having found RAMC men on sentry duty carrying rifles whilst at Suez. 

This is unfortunately a much recurring myth, even to the extent of seemingly being believed in the period by some - under the 1906 Geneva Convention essentially the protection of the wearer by the Red Cross had to be given up if the wearer intended to do some act "injurious to the enemy", eg:

http://www.archive.org/stream/genevaconvention00confuoft

Edited 15 April by Andrew Upton

[FROGSMILE]

8 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

This is unfortunately a much recurring myth, even to the extent of seemingly being believed in the period by some - under the 1906 Geneva Convention essentially the protection of the wearer by the Red Cross had to be given up if the wearer intended to do some act "injurious to the enemy", eg:

http://www.archive.org/stream/genevaconvention00confuoft

That is such a trite response.  I can remember Grumpy posting over a decade ago that RAMC could indeed be armed to defend the wounded men in their care, especially ‘uncivilised enemies’ - as I think it may have been described - and referring to actual incidents when belligerent, indigenous natives had entered British medical facilities and ill treated the wounded.  Nevertheless, he pointed out, and I would repeat as a rejoinder, that it’s generally true that in normal circumstances RAMC men and officers were indeed not ‘routinely armed’, unlike the other arms and services.  There had been a period previously, when their predessors in the Army Hospital Corps were equipped with a short sword, as part of their basic personal equipment.  Nevertheless, they did not generally have long, or short arms issued, other than in the special circumstances outlined.

Edited 15 April by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, mark holden said:

Period photos and examples of original uniforms I have owned indicate that the Red Cross badge was stitched to the jacket and to both sleeves in most cases. The exception might be where press studs are used on KD uniform. The Red Cross armlet that Michel shows  appears to be worn whilst on duty being more identifiable to both friend and foe thus in theory affording the protection of the Geneva Convention.

I agree with you 100% Mark that KD and whites were the principal uniforms on which removable badges were worn, not least because the cotton clothing concerned was wet laundered, unlike the serge wool of service dress.

Nevertheless, gunnerwalker pointed out that an apparent object on the subject soldiers arm might be a stud for a badge and, though it’s true that unit tailors generally stitched on the skill at arms and trade badges, in the context of the original post querying what the visual object on the arm might be, it was an entirely reasonable supposition to make.

The brightly coloured badges did quickly start to lose their attractive appearance when exposed to the clothing cleaning process. Fitting a removable badge was the sort of thing a keen RAMC soldier might do on his best jacket.

Edited 15 April by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

260 Coy.  Army Service Corps.

[Andrew Upton]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

That is such a trite response... Nevertheless, they did not generally have long, or short arms issued, other than in the special circumstances outlined.

Indeed, and it has never been debated that they were regularly armed. This is however a far cry from "Those wearing the Red Cross were not allowed to carry arms". 

[Alan24]

5 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

Indeed, and it has never been debated that they were regularly armed. This is however a far cry from "Those wearing the Red Cross were not allowed to carry arms". 

Thank you for your clarification, Andrew.

[Andrew Upton]

5 hours ago, Alan24 said:

Thank you for your clarification, Andrew.

You're welcome Alan 

[FROGSMILE]

22 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

260 Coy.  Army Service Corps.

Super photo.  Perhaps taken near 260 company’s station in Britain.  Perhaps someone in the forum might recognise the backdrop. 

[GWF1967]

23 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Super photo.  Perhaps taken near 260 company’s station in Britain.  Perhaps someone in the forum might recognise the backdrop. 

They have already!  @gunnerwalker  I’m told it’s the Market Place, Wells, Somerset.
 (Confirmed by the barely legible writing on the back of the card ).  
 

[FROGSMILE]

33 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

They have already!  @gunnerwalker  I’m told it’s the Market Place, Wells, Somerset.
 (Confirmed by the barely legible writing on the back of the card ).  
 

Brilliant work by our visual detectives and interesting to know 👍

[gunnerwalker]

3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

They have already!  @gunnerwalker  I’m told it’s the Market Place, Wells, Somerset.
 (Confirmed by the barely legible writing on the back of the card ).  
 

There are several photographs of 260th Coy in and around Wells by Bert Phillips. Going with the assumption that’s the cathedral in the background to the top right, although there’s not much of it visible, it does seem to match the build of the front of the main western cathedral entrance.

Looking at online maps, the only open space that could match the layout of the buildings in the ASC photograph relative to the cathedral is Market Place to the southwest.

It has the same line of buildings running straight along one side as the white houses behind the trucks and in the corner just before where the buildings meet is a matching turret protruding.

Edited 17 April by gunnerwalker

[Andrew Upton]

On 15/04/2024 at 23:14, GWF1967 said:

260 Coy.  Army Service Corps.

 

4 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

They have already!  @gunnerwalker  I’m told it’s the Market Place, Wells, Somerset.
 (Confirmed by the barely legible writing on the back of the card ).  
 

 

32 minutes ago, gunnerwalker said:

There are several photographs of 260th Coy in and around Wells by Bert Phillips. Going with the assumption that’s the cathedral in the background to the top right, although there’s not much of it visible, it does seem to match the build of the front of the main western cathedral entrance.

Looking at online maps, the only open space that could match the layout of the buildings in the ASC photograph relative to the cathedral is Market Place to the southwest.

It has the same line of buildings running straight along one side as the white houses behind the trucks and in the corner just before where the buildings meet is a matching turret protruding.

 

The same location today from Google:

 

[gunnerwalker]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

 

The same location today from Google:

 

Many thanks Andrew. Good to get proper confirmation, and I didn’t realise the turret and the entranceway below were also part of the cathedral. The buildings have hardly changed at all.

Edited 17 April by gunnerwalker

[gunnerwalker]

Bert Phillips seems to have photographed several companies of ASC MT in and around Wells. The 259th and 260th Companies seem to have been there at the same time - a postcard sold online recently of a crowd in uniform and the posted note on the back refers to a 10-mile running race they held around Aug/Sep 1915. Another shows them there on Christmas Day, 1915.

Phillips has been mentioned in past topics:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/72254-mechanical-transport-colours-and-markings/page/5/#comment-2850580

There is more than one mention of Phillips’ photographs on pages 3, 4 and 5, but page 4 of this topic has a picture of trucks crossing a bridge with settled snow visible on the ground and wheel arches. You can also see painted on one of the trucks is the “thumbs up” insignia of 260th Coy (a more detailed image of that on page 5).

At another time the 134th Coy were there.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/292997-mtasc-no134-company-training-in-wells/#comment-3046169

A forum member also posted this external link which shows other good views of the same square in Wells with men and trucks of the 134th Coy:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anniemcc/with/4300480344/

I have a couple of Phillips’ photos in my own collection which I can post when I’m next able (I’m currently abroad).

Edited 17 April by gunnerwalker

[GWF1967]

On 17/04/2024 at 01:51, Andrew Upton said:

 

 

The same location today from Google:

Many thanks Andrew. 

 

On 17/04/2024 at 01:18, gunnerwalker said:

There are several photographs of 260th Coy in and around Wells by Bert Phillips. 

 

Many thanks. 

[TomWW1]

Here’s a new unknown postcard for everybody to work on for me! I know how much you hate repeats @FROGSMILE and I have finally found one I haven’t previously posted 

[mark holden]

2 minutes ago, TomWW1 said:

Here’s a new unknown postcard for everybody to work on for me! I know how much you hate repeats @FROGSMILE and I have finally found one I haven’t previously posted 

Worcestershire Regiment 

[TomWW1]

2 minutes ago, TomWW1 said:

Here’s a new unknown postcard for everybody to work on for me! I know how much you hate repeats @FROGSMILE and I have finally found one I haven’t previously posted 

The back reads “Aunt Polly”

[FROGSMILE]

I agree with Mark.  As well as the cap badge shape the telling feature is the deeply curved shoulder title, which had a lot of letters.

Edited 23 April by FROGSMILE

[TomWW1]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

I agree with Mark.  As well as the cap badge shape the telling feature is the deeply curved shoulder title, which had a lot of letters.

Thank you for your help I will now try and piece together this mystery 

[Moonraker]

Mainly to show off my latest acquistion, showing men of the 65th Bakery Section, ASC - and perhaps a couple of  civilians? Reasons for my being chuffed:

1. Nice composition of the men.

2. Unusual topic.

3. My only card of South Camp which, together with North Camp, was at Fair Field in Warminster, taken over as a military rail depot (presumably serving other camps in the Warminster area).

4. For several days I noted a couple of would-be buyers outbidding each other and one was a local enthusiast who always bid VERY high - sometimes to my chagrin. In the closing seconds I "sniped" and won this card for a few quid under my limit.

Another photo of a field bakery is on the LLT.

Edited Tuesday at 19:45 by Moonraker