Alan24 Posted 20 November , 2020 Share Posted 20 November , 2020 19 minutes ago, trbl_tommy said: interestingly, 2 men appear not to be wearing lanyards either, 2nd and 4th men from left, also is the sergeant (ASC?) with no gun badge (4th from left) a driver perhaps (has he got riding breeches on) The man in the middle is wearing spurs. The ASC man has black linings to inside leg - riding breeches? Man on right, BSM, is wearing long gaiters below the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 November , 2020 Share Posted 20 November , 2020 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Most certainly not “a bit of swank” Pat, but the arm badge created for RE in 1881, seemingly to bring them in line with the corps from which they originated at the Board of Ordnance, who had long had their gun. I know of no official authority that stipulated RE Lance Sergeants not wearing the arm badge. As they had the extra NCO position of second corporal (equivalent of Bombardier) as did the AOC, it might be that like the RA, there was no introduction of lance sergeant. Regarding differentiation of lance sergeants of RA and RE. AO 142 of 1920 abolished the one chevron full ranks of bombardier* RA, second corporal* RE and RAOC . The new formal structure was corporal [two chevrons, and substantive] to include all those asterisked* above; lance sergeant [all previous substantive corporals] and sergeant. Dawnay states, without quoting authority, that RA sergeants were then distinguished from lance sergeants by the grenade badge, RE sergeants distinguished from lance sergeants by the grenade badge, but RAOC sergeants had no visible distinction. The rank of RA corporal was simultaneously titled Bombardier. I will look at post war Pay Warrants to see [as I assume] that the new lance sergeants could either receive extra pay, or be appointed without pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 20 November , 2020 Share Posted 20 November , 2020 Thanks Frogsmile (and apologies to offended sappers everywhere, including the shades of my grandfather and his brother, plus an uncle in the subsequent war - I should really have known better); an interesting point about Lance Sergeants or the lack in the Royal Engineers, can't offhand recall coming across any, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom mac Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 GREAT PICTURES I WILL LOOK FOR SOME IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GET PICTURES FOR FAMILIES CHEERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: He has an ASC shoulder title! No, it's not! Having looked in outdoor sunlight this morning, it is in fact... AVC, which probably explains the riding breeches. But thanks for pointing out it wasn't RGA. Regards Alan. Edited 21 November , 2020 by Alan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Alan24 said: No, it's not! Having looked in outdoor sunlight this morning, it is in fact... AVC, which probably explains the riding breeches. But thanks for pointing out it wasn't RGA. Regards Alan. Well done Alan, I’m quite happy to concede AVC, you’ve done a great job of enhancing the image. I certainly can’t compete with a mobile phone screen. Given the nature of most of their heavy guns I wouldn’t ordinarily have thought of the Army Veterinary Corps in connection with the RGA, although I recall that some of their batteries early on were drawn by officially categorised “heavy draught” horses and that would have applied to the pre-war TF units too. Edited 21 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: you’ve done a great job of enhancing the image. Thanks. Took a close up photo using a macro lens on a 24mp camera. Canon EFS60mm on Canon EOS750D in case anyone's interested. Regards Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Alan24 said: Thanks. Took a close up photo using a macro lens on a 24mp camera. Canon EFS60mm on Canon EOS750D in case anyone's interested. Regards Alan. No wonder you got such a good image! Edited 21 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I wouldn’t ordinarily have thought of the Army Veterinary Corps in connection with the RGA, although I recall that some of their batteries early on were drawn by officially categorised “heavy draught” horses and that would have applied to the pre-war TF units too. As far as I know, the 60 pounders used by heavy batteries were always horse drawn, siege guns used caterpillar tractors (probably an over generalisation). What I don't know is whether AVC men were attached to batteries overseas, ASC men were, I think, as part of an ammunition column. I suspect this AVC man was part of the make up of the establishment at the Flowerdown Camp. Below is a classic 60 Pounder battery on the move, France 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Alan24 said: As far as I know, the 60 pounders used by heavy batteries were always horse drawn, siege guns used caterpillar tractors (probably an over generalisation). What I don't know is whether AVC men were attached to batteries overseas, ASC men were, I think, as part of an ammunition column. I suspect this AVC man was part of the make up of the establishment at the Flowerdown Camp. Below is a classic 60 Pounder battery on the move, France 1915. Yes, you make a good point about the Ammunition Column especially, I imagine that they might well have had AVC on their establishment too. I recall that steam and other types of motorised tractors were pulling the heavier siege guns by the end of the war, but I don’t know if that ever included the 60 Pounders. Afternote: Apparently redesign so that the barrel need not retract for towing led to the fitting of tractor wheels to bear the extra weight on the gun carriage, which in turn led to a change to motorised (Holt) tractors. Less AVC and more ASC one imagines. Edited 21 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 21 November , 2020 Share Posted 21 November , 2020 19 hours ago, Muerrisch said: Regarding differentiation of lance sergeants of RA and RE. AO 142 of 1920 abolished the one chevron full ranks of bombardier* RA, second corporal* RE and RAOC . The new formal structure was corporal [two chevrons, and substantive] to include all those asterisked* above; lance sergeant [all previous substantive corporals] and sergeant. Dawnay states, without quoting authority, that RA sergeants were then distinguished from lance sergeants by the grenade badge, RE sergeants distinguished from lance sergeants by the grenade badge, but RAOC sergeants had no visible distinction. The rank of RA corporal was simultaneously titled Bombardier. I will look at post war Pay Warrants to see [as I assume] that the new lance sergeants could either receive extra pay, or be appointed without pay. My stock of Post-War Pay Warrants is thin, but what few I have do not [as earlier ones did] give separate scales for each arm and corps and department, so there is a flat rate for lance-sergeants [more than full corporals] thus I deduce that there would be a fair number of unpaid lance-sergeants. As for the AVC, I know not, but would guess that, as a small and very specialised and skilled corps, they might well not want or need lance-sergeants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 Thanks for that, Meurrisch, it's good to get the chapter and verse on guns/grenades above stripes. Cheers, Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 (edited) Although woven worsted grenades did exist for drab service dress it was most common practice during WW1 to use the omnipresent Universal Grenade in gilding metal as the RE arm badge. Edited 22 November , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 Interesting the way the Serjeant in the last photograph had his chevrons over his signal service brassards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 Interesting photos! Thanks for posting. Am wondering about the middle (older Serg't with watchchain) wearing medal ribbon row. Trying to ID them -- I can make out, first - Edward VII Coronation, 2nd - possibly IGS (Burma '85-'87?), next is Egypt '82, the next one I dont have a clue?, & finally Khedive's star to go with his Queen's Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 PS to my previous post above .... If the IGS is Burma it should be following the Egypt, unless its an earlier campaign clasp covered by that IGS. Surely the RE would have been involved in some of those Victorian campaigns in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 5 hours ago, RNCVR said: PS to my previous post above .... If the IGS is Burma it should be following the Egypt, unless its an earlier campaign clasp covered by that IGS. Surely the RE would have been involved in some of those Victorian campaigns in India. Strange no LSGC ..... 1882-1902 absolute minimum, more likely add a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 November , 2020 Share Posted 22 November , 2020 Yes, I was wondering why no LS as well Muerrisch. Appears to be an older soldier, perhaps he had some entries in the defaulters book as. a young soldier. Unfortunate his identity is lost forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreyguardsman Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 A smart looking, unidentified Private Soldier of The Lincolnshire Regiment with various Qualification and Wound badges. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 (edited) Yes, very highly polished metalwork indeed! He’s a marksman and qualified Lewis Gunner, who’s been wounded twice, and awarded a single good conduct badge (inverted stripe) for 2-years of blemish free service. Edited 2 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreyguardsman Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 Another Marksman and Lewis Gunner for you, this time in cloth and with the added crossed axes badge on the sleeve. Unfortunately the quality and angle of the photograph does not allow a clear view of the shoulder badges and the buttons are of the General Service type so I have been unable to identify the Regiment. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 (edited) He’s a member of the pioneer section of a light Infantry battalion, it’s possible to discern the bugle horn part of his two piece shoulder title. Unfortunately we can’t make out which one it is. Edited 2 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreyguardsman Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 Many thanks for that, the postcard reverse has no Studio mark or other details so apart from the name 'Reg' written to the front I think that's as far as an identification will go. Will post some more of my postcard archive files if of interest. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Surreyguardsman said: Many thanks for that, the postcard reverse has no Studio mark or other details so apart from the name 'Reg' written to the front I think that's as far as an identification will go. Will post some more of my postcard archive files if of interest. Simon. Yes such images are always of interest Simon, and as you’ll have seen, this thread is dedicated to them. NB. On full dress the pioneer sections of fusilier and light infantry regiments wore a grenade or bugle horn above their crossed axe badge, similarly to Foot Guards, although I think it was the former who originated the practice. Edited 2 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surreyguardsman Posted 2 January , 2021 Share Posted 2 January , 2021 Thanks, will see what I can find of interest to add. Regards, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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