zuluwar2006 Posted 24 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2021 1 hour ago, bert.f said: Hello Scabbard from the Polish bayonet M 1929, painted olive green, the scabbard is marked with military acceptance mark D2 in an oval , major Dzierżyński Absolutely correct dear Bert. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 October , 2021 Share Posted 24 October , 2021 The scabbard is of F.B.Radom production, the bayonet is a personal upgrade of owner, probably used as Dress weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 24 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2021 46 minutes ago, AndyBsk said: The scabbard is of F.B.Radom production, the bayonet is a personal upgrade of owner, probably used as Dress weapon. Cause of the similarity with the 98/05 bayonet, i do not think is the exception. Must be the rule for this section of service. The flying personel was the elite, therefore i think is a reasonable explanation about. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 October , 2021 Share Posted 24 October , 2021 (edited) The book pictured piece is S71/84 evidently upgraded to dress version, personally i dont believe similar upgrades would be allowed by german officers, there is well known normal S84/98 marked with various FEA and other flying units on crosspiece, with normal configuration, this piece lost his flashguard, questionably fonts of FF2, i dont known what is marked on front side of crossguard?, anyway it could be used by Officer on place of Sword as sidearm post 1916 or by NCO as for dress variation out of combat area. Edited 24 October , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 24 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2021 19 minutes ago, AndyBsk said: The book pictured piece is S71/84 evidently upgraded to dress version, personally i dont believe similar upgrades would be allowed by german officers, there is well known normal S84/98 marked with various FEA and other flying units on crosspiece, with normal configuration, this piece lost his flashguard, questionably fonts of FF2, i dont known what is marked on front side of crossguard?, anyway it could be used by Officer on place of Sword as sidearm post 1916 or by NCO as for dress variation out of combat area. Dear Andy Yes, quite reasonable your explanation. Since we do not have something written in official archives, we can only assume. But your opinion - explanation, make great sense to me. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2021 An ersatz (modified) chassepot bayonet with converted iron scabbard with german frog stud. This model is number 718 on Roy William book. The ribbed brass hilt has been machined down in one step and to a depth of 2,5 mm and without an extention to the spring catch. The back part of the muzxle ring milled out. This modification has been made to fit the gewehr 88 only. On the crosshuard a rare unit marking 2 : C.L.J. E. 1.6 1st Landwehr Infanterie Regiment/Ersatz Bataillon, 2nd company, number of weapon 6 (?) Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 27 October , 2021 Share Posted 27 October , 2021 (edited) The conversion is clear, anyway the unit is hard readable, dont believe C would be in front for Company, there could be other explanation, evidently the stamps are different size, strange as look done on rusted area? 16 is too large for any unit number, there is not dot between 1 and 6, it looks more like C.I. romanian 1?, J.R., slash was not used prior 1920 in unit stamp. it should be looked at scabbard, as this is certainly german conversion for unit. Edited 27 October , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2021 36 minutes ago, AndyBsk said: The conversion is clear, anyway the unit is hard readable, dont believe C would be in front for Company, there could be other explanation, evidently the stamps are different size, strange as look done on rusted area? 16 is too large for any unit number, there is not dot between 1 and 6, it looks more like C.I. romanian 1?, J.R., slash was not used prior 1920 in unit stamp. it should be looked at scabbard, as this is certainly german conversion for unit. Αndy good evening, Here are some examples from my collection with large letters, so nothingbunusual on this. The double dots symbol, i have seen it before on an ersatz bayonet " : " i am adding 2 photos. On numbers now, clearly there is a dot between 1 and 6. So unit marking is 2 : C. L. J. E. 1.6 Landwehr Infanterie Ersatz Bataillon is for sure the unit marking. Any proposals dear friends? Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 27 October , 2021 Share Posted 27 October , 2021 Demitrios good evening, the doubble points on ersatz piece are for me little strange. The Chassepot could be from Colonne some of unknown Regiments maybe Landwehr? when there is L, as captured items or adapted bayonets were mainly used by second line or supply units. Personally i dont believe Chassepot were converted in WW1, i talk mainly about the scabbard conversion but prior 1900 as captured already by Germans in France 1870, so the weapons were mainly reworked in pre 1900 period, with this long hook on scabbard. Personally from this pictures i dont see there E letter clear anyway the sizes increasing which should be other direction, largest the units designation, smallest the kompany number and weapon nr. There are various war stamp on Your pictured 3 bayonets of S98/05 same size as typical for war time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 2 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2021 An ersatz EB 9 bayonet with a very rare war time unit marking. Sheet steel hilt with a round oil hole drilled close to the guard. "TO" fixing slot with a round slotted push button. A one piece steel crossguard secured by two rivets and a double diameter open muzzle ring. The crossguard marked in two lines L. B. XVIII. 21. 1.K.411 21 Landsturm Infanterie Bataillon of the 18th Armee- Korps, 1st Kompagnie, number of weapon 411. Ersatz scabbard, type I, two piece thin steel sheet pressed to shape and turned at thecedges with round ball tip. An oval steel reinforcing plate and brazed shaped frogstud at the front, painted fieldgray overall. This type of scabbard has the frogstud located further from the throat retaining screw. Unit marking on scabbard 1.K.411 The XVIII AK, joined the 4th Army at the start of ww1 at the center of Shlieffen Plan offensive. The XVIII AK mobilised on 2.8.1914 24 infantry bataillons, 8 machine gun companies, 8 calavry squadrons, 24 field artillery batteries (144 guns), 4 heavy artillery batteries (16 guns), 3 pioneer companies and an aviation detachment. It was still in existence at the end of ww1, serving in the 17th Army Heeresgruppe Kronprinz Rupprecht on the western front. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 27 November , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2021 An interesting SG 84 / 98 mit Sägerücken (with sawback). Unfortunately no scabbard on this one. Very rare war time unit marking. Jäger Regiment zu Pferde Nr. 2 Rekrutendepot. Unit marking on the crossguard 2.J.R.P. 379 W 15 for manufacturing year. With flashguard. Name of manufacturer "ERFURT" After the mobilization of the First World War, the regiment was transferred to Lorraine, took over the border protection in the area of the 8th Cavalry Division (Royal Saxon) and secured in the advance area of the 6th Army.From September 1914 the regiment moved to East Prussia and took part in the persecution battles in Poland and in the Battle of Warsaw. It was mainly tasked with reconnaissance and reporting tasks, with smaller battles with Russian cavalry. In November 1914, the hunters took part in the Battle of Łódź. In the spring and summer of 1915 they were also used in the trench warfare between Courland and Düna. The years 1916 and 1917 did not bring the regiment any major combat operations. Transferred to the West at the beginning of 1918, training for the Cavalry Rifle Regiment began with the surrender of the horses. Together with the Schützenkommando 38, the transfer to the Garde-Kavallerie-Schützen-Division took place. HISTORY OF FORMATION : In 1900, A.K.O. ordered the establishment of a "Combined Hunter Detachment on Horseback" for two escadrons with garrison in Langensalza. It was assigned to the XI Army Corps. The installation was completed on 1 October 1900 (Foundation Day), the troops were ready for action from that day on. When in 1905 the Reichstag approved the funds for the formation of three regiments of hunters on horseback, the expansion of the previous detachment to the Jäger Regiment on Horseback No. 2 began. They formed the two previous detachment squadrons, as the 1st and 2nd squadrons, to which the following units were provided: the Garde-Jäger-Eskadron on horseback from Potsdam as the 3rd Squadron the 3rd Squadron of the Magdeburg Hussar Regiment No. 10 from Stendal as the 4th Squadron the 5th Eskadron of the Brunswick Hussar Regiment No. 17 from Braunschweig as the 5th Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 November , 2021 Share Posted 28 November , 2021 WOW! Another lovely and rare one! These 84/98's, like the short Ersatz, were originally intended for mounted units only, and this with its 1915 date will be one of the first issued. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 28 November , 2021 Share Posted 28 November , 2021 (edited) The Aushilfe SG88/98 is nice with matching unit serials from Wiki the XVIII.21 is declared as 1.Landsturm Infanterie Ersatz Battalion Meschede nr.21 des XVIII Armee Korps Edited 28 November , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 28 November , 2021 Share Posted 28 November , 2021 (edited) The S84/98nAS with scarce Jaeger Regiment zu Pferde nr.2 is certainly a nice piece with unit stamp, i dont believe is from Rekruten Depot, more likely there is a gap between P and 379 there could be was istamped weak number of Eskadron. The number in Rekrutendepot is too high, question is too the first 3 is different size as the others 2 digits. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jäger-Regiment_zu_Pferde_Nr._2 Edited 28 November , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 28 November , 2021 Share Posted 28 November , 2021 That's a lovely example, the sawback S84/98 has been on my 'wish list' since I acquired my first Imperial bayonet. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 November , 2021 Share Posted 29 November , 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, AndyBsk said: The S84/98nAS with scarce Jaeger Regiment zu Pferde nr.2 is certainly a nice piece with unit stamp, i dont believe is from Rekruten Depot, more likely there is a gap between P and 379 there could be was istamped weak number of Eskadron. The number in Rekrutendepot is too high, question is too the first 3 is different size as the others 2 digits. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jäger-Regiment_zu_Pferde_Nr._2 I always go for the simplest explanation! The different font used for the '3' could be because the armourer muixed up his stamps - saw his mistake and then used the proper front for the last two numbers...!!! I don't think the number is too high for a Rekruten depot - I have, for example, recorded a waffen nr 421 for a Bavarian Rekruten Depot. BUT, very big BUT, having said that, the official 1909 abbreviation for a J.Regiment zu pferde is 'J.P.' , with '1.J.P.5.74' given as an example. And logically, of course, an 'R' for a Rekruten Depot should be at the end of the sequence followed by a single number, so, for example, '1.J.P.R.XXX'. So, perhaps it is indeed a badly marked one for the '2 Jaeger Regiment zu pferde, 3 Esk., waf. 79.' Julian Edited 29 November , 2021 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 29 November , 2021 Share Posted 29 November , 2021 Possible the number could be for Rekruten depot but this is not infantry regiment so certainly not so high numbers,secondly in the links are not extra much info about similar units, unfortunally the crossguard and all metall was cleaned, and there is gap between the letters, so there could be missing weakly stamped piece not visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2021 Merry Christmas to all friends collectors, May all have prosperity, health and very nice and rare items for our collections!!! My regards to all!!! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 25 December , 2021 Share Posted 25 December , 2021 D. Very best wishes, here's to a happy and healthy Christmas and a better New Year. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 December , 2021 Share Posted 27 December , 2021 D, will celebrate with you on 6th January as the family is away right now! All good wishes for the day and for the New Year. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 1 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2022 (edited) On 27/12/2021 at 16:09, trajan said: D, will celebrate with you on 6th January as the family is away right now! All good wishes for the day and for the New Year. Julian Happy new year to all, Julian, Mike, Steve, Andy and so many more, wirh prosperity and health to each of you and your family. I am starting the new year, with something i was looking for a long time. An extremely rare to find ersatz belgian M 1889 bayonet made in Belgium under German occupation during ww1. Bayonet has a steel hilt with a slotted push button and internal spring. An s mark in a square. Two piece wood grips with steel rivets and washers. Steel crossguard with a hook quillion and full muzzle ring. Reverse of crossguard with a german acceptance mark, proof of the construction under German occupation. The reverse of the hilt stamped with the word Deutchland. We can notice an "a" stamp on a square down of the word. Single edge steel blade with square fullers. Maker = Occupied Arms Factory. Overall length = 376 mm Blade length = 250 mm Blade width = 26 mm Muzzle ring internal spring diameter = 17,4 mm Scabbard = black painted steel. D. Edited 1 January , 2022 by zuluwar2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 January , 2022 Share Posted 1 January , 2022 Thanks for showing D! And all good wishes and hppy bayonet hunting for the New Year! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 1 January , 2022 Share Posted 1 January , 2022 Nice find. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 1 January , 2022 Share Posted 1 January , 2022 (edited) The bayonet is very nice, could be done on contract, a or A in box is FN Herstall, Liege typical marking more as in occupied factory, the Deutschland stamp was mostly used on buyed equipment as a denoting of equipment, evidently could be obtained directly from factory, and reinspected for german army, when older stuff the piece would be not proofed. The scabbard is not proper as austrian Steyr piece, anyway the origin was very similar to this one. The period picture is excellent the various bayonets were used as Sidearm by MG troops, there exist Siam M88, China M907, and various others. Edited 1 January , 2022 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 1 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2022 Andy According to Roy Williams, this ersatz m1889, made in Belgium under German occupation during ww1. That is the reason we meet the german acceptance stamp, on the crossguard. On the m 1889 bayonets, which german army took over after the retreat of belgian army, there is NOT such acceptance mark. That is the distinguished difference which made this ersatz even rarer. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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