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WW1 GERMAN BAYONETS FROM MY COLLECTION


zuluwar2006
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Hello all!

 

Hope everyone is doing ok.

 

Can I get some answers on who the unit is that this 98/05 is marked to? The bayonet itself was made in 1917.

 

I have next to no idea about these bayonets however P1907s I know a bit about.

 

Many thanks.

 

219727593_831039160935203_509211102512245940_n.jpg.693c52a41b53cf9225b7365650694b75.jpg.219358222_337346674781844_2462811521658616415_n.jpg.9e84543c70c7070b9c844aa4732035a8.jpg228873830_359998902312982_7789970810470592367_n.jpg.ad1210647f361828b338e6dad86d1029.jpg224963241_368159361705113_8913884517473810870_n.jpg.4a0527c528be790167cbead215043dea.jpg

 

 

Edited by Mattr82
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Looks like the blade is blued, is there any details of pommel marking? visible press button photo?, possible the bayonet is Weimar refurbishment, on scabbard is probably too weimar unit Pionier Battalion nr.2 and weapon nr.31, questionable is the different on hook, there is 1.93  for 1.company weapon nr.93, the unit on backside could be Weimar, on hook probably part unit from WW1?

Edited by AndyBsk
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  Thanks for the info.

 

I have attached some more pics for reference.

 

There are no numbers on the pommel.

 

More info the better!

 

 

228713954_529844318350439_2513108139698244184_n.jpg.b3c9b7e6c5a34b252f27c67b61f77afa.jpg229671604_2920921924848273_2754869221033764956_n.jpg.0ba3f2305c80c0c4eb8212e4aa3e6951.jpg226965355_2990988254446077_6823045153104125448_n.jpg.6b48b0593ccf0ef162dc48eaf67503db.jpg221988788_578723556628678_2071399212682399512_n.jpg.3a3444ae2544f672d371dedac503c94f.jpg e

Edited by Mattr82
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press button is not sloted, but one of the screw yes same as the blade was blued evidently, so i would tend to Weimar period piece, even there is no 1920 stamp on crossguard. Is there any stamp on press button? photos should be made by day light wout flash, as then are very problematic details to see, it would be nice to see spine of handle too.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hallo,

100% bayonet and scabbard from the Waimar period. Slotted screws, small number on scabbard and burnished. The number on the scabbard hook also rather after 1920.

Best regards Rafal

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The 2nd Reichswehr sapper battalion was stationed in Szczecin (Ger. Stettin).

The size of the number 2 indicates the company number? (maybe I'm wrong).

If Waimar regimental marking, where is  / ?

 

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That is Pionier Battalion, correct was raised in Stettin, now in Poland, the Weimar smaller units were not designated by slash, so this unit stamp fully corespond the rotated Weimar marking, and is for Pionier Battalion nr.2. 

Personally i believe the 93 is number of refurbishment done in imperial or early postwar time, and that unit was 1 company /93 on hook marked, similar should be marked bayonet, but mostly this was mixed later by Army.

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If 2 is the battalion number, where is the company number?

As in the case of imperial bayonets, the lack of a company number means that the bayonet was on the soldier's equipment at the headquarters of the unit?

Raf

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Hello

The company number is on the scabbard hook

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Bert,

There was never such a rule that part of the marking should be on the dipstick and the ending on the scabbard. The more that the numbers of the weapons are different on the bayonet 31 and on the scabbard 93.

Andy,

Marking the Pioneer Batalion from Bruce Karem book about 84/98.

Raf

P1270048.JPG

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Bert

Mistake

It was about two different weapon numbers 31 and 93 on the scabbard

Raf

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Rafal1971

"Provisional stamp", rule allows ,( Verordnungsblatt  9.4.1921 Nr 211)

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The slash could be used by higher staff, in that case could be in case of Staab number or as we here have a S98/05 the dating and stamping was earlier done as by WKC S84/98 from book, about the unit wout slash is there a manual. Evidently the 1.93 is different meaning as is the unit on backside. We should see is the 93 on ball finial? 

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On 8/5/2021 at 11:31 PM, Rafal1971 said:

 

Bert,

There was never such a rule that part of the marking should be on the dipstick and the ending on the scabbard. The more that the numbers of the weapons are different on the bayonet 31 and on the scabbard 93.

Andy,

Marking the Pioneer Batalion from Bruce Karem book about 84/98.

Raf

P1270048.JPG

scan  from the book " Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel" Albrmecht Wacker ,Joachim Gortz

Image.jpg

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Thanks for adding the manual to stamping of non end stamp, anyway the parts were here stamped as by refurbishment, i assume there is 93 too on ball finial similar to mouth piece. In end of the text is adding that the early serial should be identical with the later end stamp, which is not this case of the piece.

Edited by AndyBsk
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An extremely rare 98)05 nA bayonet plain with flash guard with rare unit marking on cross guard with steel scabbard

Date is 1916.

Third Ersatz Machinengewehr Kompanie, number of weapon 812

3.E.M.G.K.812

A very rare unit marked war time bayonet.

Without any manufacturer which is very rare. 

Regards, D. 

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IMG_20210811_103149.jpg

IMG_20210811_103216.jpg

IMG_20210811_103424.jpg

Edited by zuluwar2006
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Nice unit marking, possible there was weak maker mark but by this grade of surface rust it was probably removed by cleaning, any proofs on pommel or spine area visible? 

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Hello Andy

Yes this is what my son photographed for me, 

I am not in position to get a descent photo as we speak, 

Regards

D. 

IMG_20210811_103437.jpg

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Thanks,looks only one proof there,so the bayonet was made by cooperation,one firm delivered completed blade the other mashined the handle,the letter looks like B,should be looked into Carter,same as the spine proof could help here, possible Suhl area when 16 dated.

Edited by AndyBsk
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I would think unit is missing a dot after 8, 

812 seems far too high a number for a company

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Problem could be the unit is short period wartime ,i dont see any dots between 8 and 12 as normally in listing of Wiki  there dont existed Extra MG Kompanie nr.3, there exist various Abteilungen, same as Companies, personally it could be realised by numbering of reserve of the unit, when lost some soldiers, the new soldiers were serialed to the old and not started from begin, similar could be find in austrian marking. There exist a 1.Ersatz MG Kompanie of III.Army Korps certainly.

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A very interesting bavarian bayonet and with an extremely rare unit marking. 

A Bavarian aA plain bayonet with leather scabbard, to which has added a flashguard (this was made after 1915). 14408883.211961865.jpg.797cd40cf4c95704cddf097799d2126d.jpg

Manyfacturer is ALEX COPPEL SOLINGEN. 

Date of manufactured  is 1911 under the crowned O. 

Unit marking on the crossguard of the bayonet = B.A.T.A.1.107

Bekleidungsampt (or Belagerungs) Telegraphen Abteilung (1st Abteilung), number of weapon 107.

Unit marking on the leather scabbard = B. E. B. 1.10314408883.1475004272.jpg.7a5389925f9c7e8c17f6f6be61d46e49.jpg

Kgl. Bayer. Eisenbahn - Betriebs - Kompagnie (1st Kompagnie) number of weapon 103.

Very rare unit markings on both bayonet and leather scabbard. 

 

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IMG_20210811_102723.jpg

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Demitrios, those markings are more rare than anything I have, but 2 questions, on your last piece, Waffe # 812 is way too high for a COMPANY, the K for company, I do not know if K could be for anything else with a MG group????

second, this piece today. Unit B.A.T.A.1.107

There are 6-7 old German type script writing. But that looks like a script C. I am still learning, hope I always will. Do you have a source showing that type letter. I just do not see a (T) . 
Rare indeed to see a /05aA with flash guard without the ears being ground off. Who know’s if I will ever find that combination fall into my collection 

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It would be nice to see mouth area of scabbard there could be easiest explanation for scabbard Bayern Ersatz Battalion,1.company and weapon nr,the other units on bayonet should Telegraphen Abteilung,anyway the Bekleidungs amt is for me problematic,evidently similar S98/05aA with flashguard existed,done refurbishment in war.Bavarian unit marking could be little different as prussian.a bavarian manual for stamping would be the best choice.

Edited by AndyBsk
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2 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

A very interesting bavarian bayonet and with an extremely rare unit marking. 

A Bavarian aA plain bayonet with leather scabbard, to which has added a flashguard (this was made after 1915). 14408883.211961865.jpg.797cd40cf4c95704cddf097799d2126d.jpg

Manyfacturer is ALEX COPPEL SOLINGEN. 

Date of manufactured  is 1911 under the crowned O. 

Unit marking on the crossguard of the bayonet = B.A.T.A.1.107

Bekleidungsampt (or Belagerungs) Telegraphen Abteilung (1st Abteilung), number of weapon 107.

IMG_20210811_101901.jpg

 

A small correction regarding the unit marking: It actually  means "Bayerische Armee-Telegraphen-Abteilung".

A "Bekleidungsamt/Belagerungs-Armee-Telegraphen-Abteilung" didn't exist and wouldn't even make the slightest sense..a "clothing office/siege-army-telegraph-department"? That'd be a "Jack-of-all-Trades unit" every general could only dream of!

If it were a true Bekleidungsamt unit, it'd have the B.A., followed by roman numerals indicating the department number, the arabic company and weapon numbers:

B.A.II.3.10 -> Bekleidungsamt eines Armeecorps, Betriebsabteilung II, 3. Kompanie, Waffe Nr. 10.

For a siege unit, the "B" must be cursive; there's no "A" in-between the B and T.

B.T.A.1.173 -> Belagerungs-Telegraphen-Abteilung Nr.1, Waffe Nr. 173

Source: Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel, page 83 f.

 

2 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

Demitrios, those markings are more rare than anything I have, but 2 questions, on your last piece, Waffe # 812 is way too high for a COMPANY, the K for company, I do not know if K could be for anything else with a MG group????

second, this piece today. Unit B.A.T.A.1.107

There are 6-7 old German type script writing. But that looks like a script C. I am still learning, hope I always will. Do you have a source showing that type letter. I just do not see a (T) . 
 

It is in fact a Kompanie. The other possibility would be the "Abteilung", but that is the next highest level, a battalion sized unit.

Regarding the cursive letter, it is in fact a C as you stated. There's a 98/02 pictured in "Rifle and Carbine 98" by Dieter Storz on page 355 with the same unit marking, the only difference being that the lower curve of the letter runs off to the left instead of the right, thus making it a true cursive "T".

I apply Occam's Razor here: The error simply happened, because the person stamping the unit mark had the face of the punches (which are all mirrored!) facing towards him in a box. Instead of using the one that looks like a "C" to create a "T", he grabbed the one looking like a "T" by accident/being in a hurry, thus creating a "C".

 

4 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

Problem could be the unit is short period wartime ,i dont see any dots between 8 and 12 as normally in listing of Wiki  there dont existed Extra MG Kompanie nr.3, there exist various Abteilungen, same as Companies, personally it could be realised by numbering of reserve of the unit, when lost some soldiers, the new soldiers were serialed to the old and not started from begin, similar could be find in austrian marking. There exist a 1.Ersatz MG Kompanie of III.Army Korps certainly.

There was in fact a 3rd Ersatz MG Company, you can find the war personnel roster of the unit here (click on the picture and zoom in with the mouse wheel): https://www.leo-bw.de/web/guest/detail/-/Detail/details/DOKUMENT/labw_findmittel_06/labw-1-1093470/Kriegsstammrolle der 3 Ersatz-Maschinengewehrkompanie

It was created in late September 1916 and served within the 13th Army Corps.

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