WW1 GERMAN BAYONETS FROM MY COLLECTION

[zuluwar2006]

18 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

Very strange proof,the crown is not part of the die? Any other navy unit stamp outside this M stamp?

Andy,

No, nothing more than this. 

Strange enough and for me. 

Regards

D. 

[AndyBsk]

Should be compared on real KM S98/05 pieces which have a WD or IMD or other KM units, that are confirmed. I known about similar stamping from one russian forum, which turned out as probematic. Same as Ruediger or other german sources should be compared for similar marking.

[zuluwar2006]

Αn extremely rare unit marked ersatz bayonet. 

A French lebel 1886 bayonet with iron scabbard, captured by Germans and unit marked in 2 lines as =

LS. E. B. 3.

3.C. 7.

for

3d Landsturm Infanterie Ersatz Bataillon, 

3d company, number of weapon 7.

Very rare to meet this unit marking. 

One similar unit marking has been  founded in France and in a private collection. 

The iron scabbard and crossguard are painted black. 

The numbers and letters in second line are faint  so I got a very close photo on them.

Faint is and the B for Bataillon on 1st line. 

Nevertheless an extremely rare ersatz bayonet. 

There are two Model 1886 Lebel bayonets. The French called this style an épée bayonet, after the épée sword used in fencing, because of the cruciform cross section of the blade. Both models have 20 ½ inch (52.7 cm) long blades, but they can be found in various lengths as the blades were often repointed when the tip broke off in field use. The French also modified many of these bayonets in 1935 by shortening them.

Originally the bayonets had a nickel-silver handle and a hooked quillon, as the particular bayonet which was reissued by Germans.

By 1916, with the need to conserve nickel for the war effort, the handles were made of brass.

About the same time they were manufactured without the quillion, because the French discovered the quillions were more apt to get caught on equipment straps than catch the downward thrust of an enemy bayonet.

Regards

D. 

 

 

[AndyBsk]

Strange designation,maybe there could be other explanation,firstly LS for Landsturm is not typical ,there were used S in lower case as one word Lst. normally,secondly germans since late 90ies didnt use C for company,but letter K for Kompanie. Teoretically it could be Landwehr Schutzen Regt? Nr.3,Ersatz Batt.?glossy black paint should be not period.

Edited 18 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[Steve1871]

I no very little on Regimental markings

 

Just looks strange to me. The letters simply look too big, I have not seen stamping that  large, and double stamp “L”  and other letter, double or triple stamped, not sure if a B or D?

 

As always, you find a great many unit marked pieces to keep me envious. I still do not have my first Unit marked 98/05

[zuluwar2006]

Steve,

Here is another similar unit marking, proof that LS where stamped together. 

Regards

D. 

[AndyBsk]

There is writen that its a 63. Landsturm E.B. but the 63 is weapon nr, so when would be real Landsturm for LS, that should be then a LS E.B.nr.3

the unit could be as sample of Baden Wurttemberg 3. II. Landsturm-Infanteriebataillon Stuttgart XIII/3 part of 13.Army corps, by Wurttemberg is possible different stamping as by prussian units. or it could be LS EB of other Army corps as not designated what its army corps there.

Edited 19 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[zuluwar2006]

41 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

There is writen that its a 63. Landsturm E.B. but the 63 is weapon nr, so when would be real Landsturm for LS, that should be then a LS E.B.nr.3

the unit could be as sample of Baden Wurttemberg 3. II. Landsturm-Infanteriebataillon Stuttgart XIII/3 part of 13.Army corps, by Wurttemberg is possible different stamping as by prussian units. or it could be LS EB of other Army corps as not designated what its army corps there.

Andy, 

Look this unit marking for wyttemberg troops. 

Again there is a capital C on the second line. 

Could be Army Corp the meaning??? 

[AndyBsk]

Yes it could be Corps denoting, normally the corps are roman numerals  as here  I.C and not as there 3C in the previous bayonet, anyway is war period stamp, so there could be exception, as You could see here is correct Lst. or Ldst.  shortage  used for Landsturm.  The LS when Landsturm is not typical stamp for Landsturm, should be normal script L marked from manual 1909. Anyway it depends who stamped it there? Waffenmeister of small unit? 

Problem is too the Wittenberg is linked with not the I.corps, as i assume I.Corps is Koenigsberg. but more with IV.Corps of Magdeburg, as Wittenberg is part of Sachsen Anhalt region.

Edited 19 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[Steve1871]

I have never seen a City written out like that, Wittenberg, really cool. I guess both you Demitrios and AndyB both know/read German and have several of the refs.  1877. 1909 and others to know all this info. How do you guys know the variations? I always thought Landstrum was Lst, never heard of Ldst or simply Ls. Field armorers and war time at that, there would be, but makes it more of a challenge. I still can not find out what the letter C stands for. My bayonet  C.J. 4.46??

 

You guys go deeper into the unit history’s back to the Army attaches to and even the Home city’s, Always a special touch. Great bayonetS there Demitrios, thanks

[AndyBsk]

Wittenberg is town of Mr. Luther. 

problem by War time stamps are they are not strictly under manual made, its local area rules, as You could see there are 2 identical stamps which are not standart in height, fonts and other typical rules. Hard to explain why this occured.  Same as evidently similar stamps were done each per single letter die, which is time consuming?

Edited 19 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[zuluwar2006]

3 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

I have never seen a City written out like that, Wittenberg, really cool. I guess both you Demitrios and AndyB both know/read German and have several of the refs.  1877. 1909 and others to know all this info. How do you guys know the variations? I always thought Landstrum was Lst, never heard of Ldst or simply Ls. Field armorers and war time at that, there would be, but makes it more of a challenge. I still can not find out what the letter C stands for. My bayonet  C.J. 4.46??

 

You guys go deeper into the unit history’s back to the Army attaches to and even the Home city’s, Always a special touch. Great bayonetS there Demitrios, thanks

Steve

Your bayonet is a G. J. = Guard Jaeger, so something different and still very rare to find it (lucky you!!!). 

Capital "C" could mean "Cadetten" as on this ersatz unit marking, Cadetten Esquadron.

or mayebe has the meaning for Army Corps.

I do not know for sure. 

Even Roy Williams was trying to identify the true meaning of the C. 

I agree that armourers at the front line, did not had the luxury of time to follow exactly the regulations.

that is why war time unit markings are so interesting and amazing for collectors. 

The variety of german ww1 bayonets, is much bigger, if you consider the variety of the unit markings in so many different bayonets, during the war!!!

 

[Steve1871]

I still think it is a C, not a G.

both the ends are the same, a G would end with the vertical line on bottom end or a short horizontal line or both. A guess by Julian was an armorer used wrong steel punch by mistake, but it is a C to me. 
 

I get frustrated that I never found a unit marked 98/05 while they keep popping up like candy from your collection 😩😱

 

One day 

[trajan]

10 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

I get frustrated that I never found a unit marked 98/05 while they keep popping up like candy from your collection 😩😱

 

One day 

 

I know the feeling... basically, before 1915, 98/05's were restricted to Pioniers, etc., and so unit-marked ones are not that common. I think I just have the one, to a Pionier unit.

[AndyBsk]

Personally believe the frontline area weapons were not marked as could be captured by enemy, which would known exact who stands in enemy position, most unit stamps are from third line or training and guarding units.

[trajan]

On 20/01/2021 at 10:49, AndyBsk said:

Personally believe the frontline area weapons were not marked as could be captured by enemy, which would known exact who stands in enemy position, most unit stamps are from third line or training and guarding units.

 

That is true up to a point although this is not stated in any of the German official directions on unit marking weapons, which simply state that weapons in service use should be marked except in times of war. And there are a few German WW1 bayonets made between 1915-1918 with unit markings for active front-line troops. Note also, shoulder tabs, pickelhaube covers and the soldier's own pay book indicate which unit a man belonged to.

 

Julian 

[zuluwar2006]

An extremely rare to find war time unit marking on an ersatz bayonet with steel scabbard. 

EB 4 variation is the ersatz model. 

Pressed steel hilt and with a round oil hole, a round slotted steel push button and internal spring, two piece steel crossguard with double diameter open type muzzle ring. 

Single edge steel blade with wide fullers. 

Scabbard type II with two piece thin steel pressed to shape  and turned at the edges without round ball tip, as type I. 

Oval steel reinforcing plate front with makers mark FAG. 

The unit marking is 1 F 440

That is for 1st Fuhrpark - Kolonne, number of weapon 440.

Fuhrpark - Kolonne were supply columns. 

Their organisation's during ww1, was :

 When mobilised in time of war, the Train’s units were amalgamated with the Infanterie-Munitions-Kolonnen (Infantry Ammunition Columns), Artillerie-Munitions-Kolonnen (Artillery Ammunition Columns) and separate Füßartillerie-Munitions-Kolonnen (Foot Artillery Ammunition Columns), into a combined Munitions-Kolonnen und Trains formation. These were assigned at Armeekorps (Army Corp), Reservekorps (Reserve Corp), or Etappe (Staff) command level and consisted of:                          
(a)     Munitions-Kolonnen-Abteilung (Mixed Infantry and Artillery munitions columns);
(b)     Füßartillerie-Munitions-Kolonnen-Abteilung (Foot artillery munitions columns), and;
(c)     Train (which included the Feldlazarette (Field hospitals), Proviant-Kolonnen and Fuhrpark-Kolonnen (Supply Columns – Provision and Vehicle columns respectively), Pferdedepots (Horse Depots) and Feldbäckerei-Kolonnen (Field bakeries)).

[Steve1871]

Nice unit marking and rare. I like it!

Since I got that S.98 with that great FAG scabbard, I have been looking for more FAG scabbards. They are mostly found with Ersatz   Bayonets. I recently got an 84/98 plain for the FAG scabbard it has. Since GAG we’re, it seems, replacements, when found on 84/98’s, it should still be considered correct.

 

Do you agree? Hey 

[zuluwar2006]

A bayonet S 98 NA plain with steel scabbard type IV. 

The scabbard is an all  steel with oval section type and a separate throat, parallel line decoration on the front and the rear and a raised seam at the rear. Is black painted. It is wider than type III steel scabvard and there is a small crown acceptance stamp on the front of the frogstud. Length is 554 mm. 

The bayonet has a shaped steel hilt with a "TO" attachment slot, round press button and internal spring. 

Two piece lined wood grips held by two screw bolt.

Short steel crossguard with upturned quillon. 

The reverse stamped with an extremely rare unit marking 

C. 34

For Coblenz or KADETTEN - Corps (military school) number of weapon 34.

Single edged steel pipe back blade, the back edge dated 07 and a crowned W, for Prussia. 

Manufacturer is V. C. SCHILLING SUHL. 

A very rare and unusual unit marking on this S 98 bayonet, with a very rare all steel scabbard. 

 

 

[trajan]

Hi everyone,

Some of you will know that our good friend and colleague Dimitrios was in a very serious car accident. I have no details on that, but his wife e-mailed me yesterday to say that he looks to be on the final stages of recovery after a relapse, and that he hopes to be back on GWF at some point. I have passed on to him via her our good wishes for a speedy return to good health.

Julian

[MikeyH]

1 hour ago, trajan said:

Hi everyone,

Some of you will know that our good friend and colleague Dimitrios was in a very serious car accident. I have no details on that, but his wife e-mailed me yesterday to say that he looks to be on the final stages of recovery after a relapse, and that he hopes to be back on GWF at some point. I have passed on to him via her our good wishes for a speedy return to good health.

Julian

Great to hear this, best wishes to Dimitrios, look forward to his return.

Mike.

[zuluwar2006]

[Steve1871]

We Missed you Demitrios. Welcome Back. I know you are still recovering, but good to “Hear” from you again😊

[trajan]

15 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

You missed quite a few things - but take it slowly as you catch up!

Julian 

[AndyBsk]

nice Dimitrios that You are back, some comments from You would be appreciated in previous time. good health.