Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 From the 1911 Census: Name: Archibald Crapp Age in 1911: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1882 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Birth Place: Cork, Ireland Civil Parish: Yeovil Search Photos: Search for 'Yeovil' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection County/Island: Somerset Country: England Street address: Crown Inn, 39 Huish, Yeovil, Somerset Marital Status: Single Occupation: Assistant in Business Registration district: Yeovil Registration District Number: 309 Sub-registration district: Yeovil ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Household schedule number: 27 Piece: 14410 Household Members: Name Age John Crapp 63 Mary Crapp 60 Archibald Crapp 29 Ivy Crapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 That's that idea binned then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 2 minutes ago, wandererpaul said: That's that idea binned then!! It was a Crapp idea in the first place. Must have been a terrific burden to go through life with a name like Archibald... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 I really think it is him Dai! Still digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) Right age. Born in Ireland. Lived in Somerset. Certainly ticks a lot of boxes. Where does the Dellamere and the Colman come in I wonder? Edit: Not his mother's maiden name I don't think (possibly Mary White-married John Martyn Crapp in Yeovil , December Qtr.1874). Edited 14 December , 2016 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Crapp, Dellamere, Colman (CWGC), Coleman (SDGW) take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 12 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: It was a Crapp idea in the first place. Must have been a terrific burden to go through life with a name like Archibald... I'll walk away quietly. It's still possibly an alias though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Pretty much, I still think Dellamere is Crapp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) Right! Who is this then? Same Regiment (RDF) and SAME NUMBER as on A CRAPP's burial record on CWGC site. MIC for Arthur COLEMAN http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000346-01167?pid=804981&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCVh542%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D26536%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dekf%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D8%26h%3D804981%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D9&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CVh542&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true Edited 14 December , 2016 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Dai, I dont have Ancestry but if that is his MIC it shows he is listed as Coleman, Sgt, RDF, which agrees with him using at least one alias. Dellamere is unfindable anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 2 minutes ago, museumtom said: Dai, I dont have Ancestry but if that is his MIC it shows he is listed as Coleman, Sgt, RDF, which agrees with him using at least one alias. Dellamere is unfindable anywhere else. Yes Tom. Arthur Coleman. R D Fus Sjt 26536 Victory Medal & War Medal So, Arthur Coleman = Archibald Crapp. Dellamere is still a mystery though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 There's only one A.P.C. soldier/serjeant who died between 1/10/1916 and 1/12/1916. No match at all with "Dellamere" or Somerset, plus he's buried near to me in Ealing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Thank you for your help Paul and Dai. Its a very very interesting journey indeed. Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 I could imagine getting away with 1 alias but 2 ? That would only work if he'd been discharged and then re-joined the army at a later date (in to the Dublins). If we can tie down a death and a gratuity it should be relatively easy to get the rest of the story from there. Delamere's card doesn't have mention of the Dublins on it so it could indicate that any later service was unknown Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: If we can tie down a death and a gratuity it should be relatively easy to get the rest of the story from there. Do A(rchibald) O. Crapp or Arthur Coleman appear in the Soldiers' Effects Craig with a death date of 19/10/1916? Edit: Scrub that request Craig. I see wandererpaul has found him under Dellamere!! This one really takes a beating. What does it say? Edited 14 December , 2016 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6129999_0074-00012/216154?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dMFB4066%26_phstart%3dsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dukarmyregisterseffects%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d39%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsln%3dCrapp%26gsln_x%3d1%26gskw%3d26536%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dea7&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults He's listed under COLMAN but there's also Dellamere on the Solider Effects record!! I wasn't talking CRAPP! Edited 14 December , 2016 by wandererpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) Arthur Colman alias Archibald Oliver Crapp alias "J" Delamere 10th Bn. Royal Dublin Fusiliers Serjeant 10/26536 Date/Place Death: 19/10/16 Wounds France I'll leave the gratuity details to Craig but a payment was made to a Mary Crapp also another person, but cannot decipher it. I can't load the piece as I'm not allowed to. Edited 14 December , 2016 by wandererpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Well Lads, that was an enigma wrapped up in a mystery wrapped up in and alias wrapped up in another alias. A brilliant piece of detective work, well done to all and thank you for your persistence. It would not have been possible with it. I am very much in your debt. Kindest regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandererpaul Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) FMP has a hospital record too. A COLEMAN - 26536 - was sent to 44 CCS FRANCE - report for 22 October 1916 says he died on 19/10/1916 of GSW. Buried in the Military Cemetary Puchevillers (Puchevillers isn't easy to read on the sheet as it's damaged) Edited 14 December , 2016 by wandererpaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Excellent find Paul, well done, and thank you! Kind regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 42 minutes ago, wandererpaul said: Arthur Colman alias Archibald Oliver Crapp alias "J" Delamere 10th Bn. Royal Dublin Fusiliers Serjeant 10/26536 Date/Place Death: 19/10/16 Wounds France I'll leave the gratuity details to Craig but a payment was made to a Mary Crapp also another person, but cannot decipher it. I can't load the piece as I'm not allowed to. The gratuity is interesting as a Sgt the minimum (gross) payment is £8. For a man dying before late 1918 it would be usual to see the amount being paid net of the Service Gratuity of (in this case) £2 - this would leave a £6 net payment (as shown on the records). This would indicate 12 months or less service. #1691 APC was allocated 12 Aug 14 and #1770 APC on 7 Aug 14 for a short service 1 yr special enlistment or D.of W. if longer) so I'd have expected him to have enlisted around then and not be a pre-war enlistment. This would give service of a maximum of 27 qualifying months service at time of death. We know his first period of service lasted at least from Aug 14 to April 15 (when posted to France) - 9 months minimum. #26571 was allocated to the RDF on 28 Mar 196 and we known he died on 19 Oct 16 so he had 7 months minimum in his second period. His war gratuity certainly wasn't paid in respect of his whole period of service. Hard to say why without more info but they clearly knew his alias at some point so it's odd they didn't link the periods - At this stage I'd put my money on him having deserted and later re-joined under the different name. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Just to add his initial effects balance from April 1918 had been unclaimed and put on the unclaimed effects list. His war gratuity was paid to Mary Crapp, his mother. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 14 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 December , 2016 Good man Craig, it will take me a bit of time to digest all that, lots of info there. Thank you very much. Kind regards. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 December , 2016 Share Posted 14 December , 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, museumtom said: Good man Craig, it will take me a bit of time to digest all that, lots of info there. Thank you very much. Kind regards. Tom I think this is possibly him in 1891 1911 Craig Edited 14 December , 2016 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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