Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

[Richardeds]

Hello Annette

My great grandfather served in the KSLI. I have his M.I.C , Cpl Alexander James Gordon Reg No.27698, awarded British War and Victory Medals. No other info on the card, and have not been able to find any other records relating to his service. Long shot but can you add anything else to this? His son, my great uncle, also joined the KSLI, during WWII, and was sadly killed at Anzio.

Regards

Richard

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Richard

I do not have a lot but know he was with the 7th Battalion from the medal roll, also he is recorded under wounded in the Ludlow Advertiser 14/12/18 (this paper record all K.S.L.I. casualties), so I would think he was wounded during one of the last battles of the war, in the case of the 7th Batt. this was the Battle of The Selle, between 22nd & 29th October.

Also I think he may have joined another Regiment before joining the K.S.L.I. because most of the men near his number are formerly Rifle Brigade men but only the K.S.L.I. is recorded on his medal roll.

Annette

[Richardeds]

Thanks for the info Annette, as I say we know nothing about great grandads service aside from the MIC, though we did have an idea he joined up in London and was later transferred to KSLI, so fits with that, and builds a great deal on the sparse facts we have, much appreciated.

[Ken Wayman]

Hi Annette

Don't know whether you're interested in called-up reservists but here's one anyway:-

Frank THOMAS MM

Born: Apr – Jun 1889 in Hampton Bank, Welshampton, Shropshire.

Parent: Son of Sarah and late John Thomas (general labourer).

Lived: The Wood, Pelsall, near Walsall.

Married to Susannah. Two children.

Aged: 29.

Occupation: Tram conductor for Walsall Corporation.

Volunteered: Called up as reservist in August 1914 in Wem, Shropshire.

C.Q.M.S., 8373

‘A’ Company, 6th (Service) Battalion, the King’s Shropshire Light Infantry [K2]

60th Brigade, 20th ‘Light’ Division

(Source – ‘Walsall Observer’, 12/5/17, p.3 and photo). “Sergeant Frank Thomas of the KSLI has been promoted from sergeant and awarded the Military Medal for bravery in the field but as yet no details are available. He is a married man, 28 years of age, with two children and his home is in the Wood, Pelsall. Before joining the colours on August 5th, 1914, he was tram conductor employed by the Walsall Corporation. He acted as signalling instructor for two years in Wales before he went to France”.

(Source – ‘Walsall Observer’, 5/1/18). “Pelsall Man’s Bravery – Saturday evening last, at the Central Hall, Pelsall, QMS Frank Thomas of The Wood, Pelsall, was presented with the Military Medal. Although at short notice, as this gallant soldier was due in London for active service on Sunday morning, a large number were present. Mr. G. Harrington presided and several speeches were made by Mr. E.H. Barnett, the Rev. C.E. Dodd and Alderman Binns. Frank Thomas was on the Army Reserve prior to 1914 and at the outbreak of war he was a tram-driver. He was in the Battle of Arras last Easter and at Inverness Copse, Passchendaele. The medal was awarded for conspicuous bravery at the Arras battle and the chairman paid appropriate tribute. A wristlet watch, subscribed for by the village, was presented. Frank Thomas said he was only doing his duty and he deserved the medal no more than thousands of others fighting the Germans”.

(Source – ‘Walsall Observer’, 2/3/18 p.3 and photo). “CQMS Frank Thomas, who was awarded the M.M. on April 17th, is in a base hospital at Rouen suffering from trench fever, contracted while serving with the KSLI in France on January 20th. Now 27 years of age, he enlisted on August 5th, 1914 and went on active service in November, 1916. He is a married man, his wife and children residing at the Wood, Pelsall and before enlisting he was a tram conductor”.

(Source – ‘Walsall Observer’, 24/8/18 p.3 and photo). “CQMS Frank Thomas, MM, was accidentally killed on August 2nd. While taking rations to the line a truck overturned and he was killed instantly. An old soldier, having served 11 years with the colours, he was called up on reserve on August 5th, prior to which he was working as a tram conductor for Walsall Corporation. He acted as a signalling instructor in Wales for two years before going to France where he served for another two years. In May, 1918, he was awarded the MM for his gallantry in capturing 23 Germans on April 17th. The medal was presented to him at Pelsall on December 28th, when his friends and the parishioners of Pelsall also presented to him a wristlet watch. He contracted trench fever while serving in France earlier this year and was in hospital some months. He was a married man, 29 years of age and his wife and two children reside at the Wood, Pelsall”.

(Source -‘London Gazette’, 18/6/17 – MM announcement)

Accidentally killed, on Friday, 2/8/18

(age 29)

by a truck overturning when taking rations up the line.

Sucrerie Cemetery, Ablain-St. Nazaire, Pas de Calais, France.

(IV. E.5)

Headstone inscription reads, “Thy will not mine O Lord”.

Memorial & Medals: Name appears on the Pelsall War Memorial and on the Walsall War Memorial and in the Pelsall section of the Staffordshire Roll of Honour in Lichfield Cathedral. Commemorated in ‘Walsall Peace Celebrations, 1919’, under the section, Corporation Employees (Tramways). Awarded the Military Medal for conspicuous bravery at the Battle of Arras, 1917; entitled to the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.

‘War Graves of the British Empire’ – France, vol.22.

All the best

Ken

[6th Shropshires]

Thanks Ken

A lot of your info. I did not have, so many thanks.

Annette

[GraemeClarke]

Annette,

I have this, does it come under your remit,

The Reverend Thomas HOWELL

Chaplain 4th Class

Army Chaplains’ Department

attached

6th Battalion, King’s Shropshire Light Infantry

Died in France on Saturday 1 December 1917

Thomas was born in Fishguard, Pembrokeshire, Wales whilst his parents later resided at 189, Whitchurch Road, Cardiff. He was educated at Swansea Grammar School, the University College of Wales at Cardiff (which he entered in 1901) and at Brecon Congregational College. He obtained his B.A. degree at Cardiff University in 1907 and thereafter took up a position in the ministry at Leominster in 1910 where he stayed for three years.

In March 1914 Thomas commenced his ministry at The Bridge Street Congregational Church, Walsall and during 1916 served three months in France with the Y.M.C.A. Seeing his vocation as serving at the front, Thomas joined the Army Chaplains’ Department in June 1917 being sent to officiate to the King’s Shropshire Light Infantry.

Killed while serving his men at the front, Thomas was 33 years of age.

At the time of his death his battalion were in the line between La Vacquerie and Masnières. At 8am on Friday 30 November 1917 the Germans made massed attacks in the area during the Battle of Cambrai, the battalion losing 93 officers and men killed on the first day alone. The battalion made several attacks to clear the high ground south west of Gonnelieu but each attack was beaten off.

Thomas is buried in Fifteen Ravine British Cemetery, Villers-Plouich in Grave IV.C.16. He is commemorated on the Walsall and Cardiff University war memorials.

(Can you add anything to the above?)

Regards,

Graeme

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Graeme

Thanks for this info. but Mike had already sent this to me. I can not find any mention of him in the Regimental Hstory nor the Battalion war diary,so can not add anythink more on the man himself but can give you a bit more details about the Battalions actions, I will type this up in next few days. But I can tell you now that some of the details you mention are incorrect, for example the Battalion were not in the line when the Germans attacked, they were resting at 15 Ravine having just come of the line that night. Also the amount of men lost killed is a mistake, this mistake comes from the Regimental History.

Annette

[Aneurin]

Annette,

The Reverend Thomas HOWELL Chaplain 4th Class

Army Chaplains’ Department attached 6th Battalion, King’s Shropshire Light Infantry

Died in France on Saturday 1 December 1917

He was educated at the University College of Wales at Cardiff

Graeme

Hi Graeme/Annette

Apologies if this sounds pedantic, but "University College of Wales" applies to Aberystwyth. Thomas Howell attended the "University College of South Wales and Monmouthshire, Cardiff", usually abbreviated to "University College, Cardiff". (A few years ago, Cardiff left the federal University of Wales - to which Aberystwyth still belongs - and is now simply "Cardiff University".)

Gwyn

[GraemeClarke]

Gwyn,

Many thanks, I'd rather get it right !!

Regards,

Graeme

[Aneurin]

Gwyn,

Many thanks, I'd rather get it right !!

Regards,

Graeme

Graeme/Annette

I've just discovered that the course at Brecon Congregational College invoved six years study: three at UC Cardiff studying arts and then three at Brecon studying theology. This explains why it took six years from Thomas Howell's entry at Cardiff in 1901 to graduation in 1907.

Gwyn

[janj]

Hello Annette

I am trying to find information about my husband's grandfather and great uncle Idwal and Ogwen Jones. On the Roll of Honour for Llanfechain, Montgomeryshire (Names of residents in the Civil Parish of Llanfechan, Mont. who are serving King and Country in the Great War 1914) Ogwen is recorded as Capt Ogwen Jones, Church View, Llanfechain; Shropshire. We assume the Shropshire reference is his regiment and not part of his address. He was born in 1896 at Church View, Llanfechain, parents Ellis and Elizabeth Jones. He died in 1924 "of wounds". Do you have any information about him on your database?

The role of honour also mentions three other Shropshires:

Thomas Edward Oliver, RIP; Plas-yn-dinas, Lanfechain, 6 Kings Shropshire LI.

Henry Williams, Tytop, Kings Shropshire.

J A Powell, Llanfecain, Shropshire Yeomanry

You may be interested in these for your database.

Idwal, born 1894 but we don't know which regiment he served in. He appears on the Llanfechain role of honour as Idwal Jones, Church View, Llanfechain; Wrexham (don't know what the Wrexham refers to). It is possible he served in the same regiment as Ogwen. Does he appear in your database?

Jan

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Gwyn

Thanks for the info. on The Reverend Thomas Howell.

Hi Jan

I have Ogwen in my dateabase but his rank is A/Cpl not Captain (may he re-enlisted after war & became a captain then ?). His regimental number was 15341 and he served in the 6th & 7th Battalions. He landed in France on 31-12-15, was wounded in 1916 & in 1918, being discharged on 17-04-19 to Class Z Reserve.

I do not have Idwal in my database, but I still have a few hundred or so more to find most of which did not serve overseas. He my have been in another Regiment or Corps ?

Annette

[janj]

Hi Annette

Thank you very much for the information on Ogwen. I suspect that the information from the roll of honour was transcribed incorrectly and it was A/Cpl. I now have his MIC but haven't been able to find his service records so I expect it is unlikely that I will find out anything more about where/when he was wounded.

I will continue to look for Idwal. Another possibility is that he was in a Welsh Regiment.

Jan

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Jan

I can give you a rough idea where Ogwen was wounded. I found his name in the Wellington & Shrewsbury Journal 15-6-16 & Ludlow Advertiser 8-6-18, as a rule it took about a month from being wounded to being reported in the papers, this is only a rough guild so that as to be kept in mind. I am guessing he was first wounded with the 6th Battalion, who were in training at Calais from 27-04-16 to 06-05-16, it had moved to Wormhoudt by the 08-05-16 for more training until the 19th. By the 20th they were billeted in Ypres (west side), and entered the trenches in the Railway Wood sector on the 25-05-16 being relieved on 03-06-16, during this tour 48 men were wounded.

I think his second wound would have been with the 7th Battalion but I can not be 100% sure of this, any way th 7th Battalion were in the Locon sector during late April & early May 1918.

Annette

[janj]

Hi Annette

I have been away for a few days and only just seen your message. Thank you so much for the information. I am very grateful.

Jan

[Jonathan_NW]

Hi Annette

I hope the following may be of use or interest:

Bolton Men of the Shropshire Light Infantry

All the following men are listed in the column ‘Rally to the Flag’ published in the weekly Bolton Journal Newspaper. The dates are the day of publication for that week (Friday). All the men signed up at the Albert Hall in Bolton

January 1st 1915

Thomas Hornby, 14 Balshaw Street, Bolton

Harry Bruce, 11 Alice Street, Bolton

John Lennard, 7 Raby Street, Bolton

James Langdon, 10 Mortfield Street, Bolton

January 8th 1915

James Horrocks, 83 High Street, Belmont Village

Leo Riley, 18 York Street, Bolton

Richard M Crompton, 4 Pleasant View, Bolton

Albert Derbyshire, 574 Bury Road, Bolton

Alfred Heyes, 6 Top O’th Lane, Darcy Lever, Bolton

Alex Mort, 4 Hill Street, Bolton

Herbert Ramsden, 15 Romer Street, Bolton

Lewis Robb, 23 Oakenbottom Road, Bolton

Francis Herbert Roscoe, 35 Ellesmere Street, Bolton

January 15th 1915

John Mullineux , 40 Kenwick Steet, Bolton

John Edward Plant, 10 Chester Road, Bolton

January 22nd 1915

Wilfred Joseph Potter, 209 Church Street, Little lever, Bolton

Michael Williams, 17 Hardy Street, Bolton

Fred Woods, 20 Windermere Street, Bolton

February 25th 1915

Henry Hulton, 11 Peel Street, Bolton

March 3rd 1915

Albert Ball, 55 Rushey Fold Lane, Bolton

March 10th 1915

Charles Davies, 42 Reservoir Street, Bolton

March 24th 1915

Horace Greenhalgh, 46 Church Street, Bolton

John J. Morris, 15 Hope Walk, Oswestry

The following is from the Roll of Honour to the fallen of Bolton:

Regards

Jonathan

[6th Shropshires]

That's great Jonathan, many thanks for taking the time to do this for me. Hopefully I can help you out one day.

Again thanks

Annette

[jossw]

Hi, my Great Grandad and his step Dad both served in the KSLI.

My Great Grandad was Pte Edwin James Alfred Smith, no.19869, hounarably discharged on the 4th of August 1917, had shrapnel in his back for the rest of his life and had to sleep sitting up. Any help as to what Battalion he was in or how I can find out. Also any idea where he would have been wounded to be discharged on that date?

His step Dad was Pte Henry Charles Cookson, or Charles Henry Cookson, no. 13326 and 616386. He was in the labour corps of the KSLI. Any more information on him?

Many Thanks

[Ken Lees]

Joss,

Do you have Pte Edwin James Alfred Smith's and Charles Henry Cookson's service records? Both are available on Ancestry.com if you subscribe. If you don't have them and you don't subscribe to Ancestry, let me know and I'll sort it for you.

Edwin was in the 7th Battalion and was wounded on the Somme near to the village of Guillemont on 18th August, 1916.

Ken

[jossw]

Thanks Ken, I have all that I could find from ancestry for Edwin Smith but all that includes is his medal index card, and two sheets titled 'Proceedings on Discarge' which lists a few of his details such as time served, address ect but I didnt know how to find his battalion or any details of when he was wounded. Can I ask how you got this information for future reference?

For Charles Cookson I have seen his service records and I will print them some time although I dont subscribe at the moment. From that I gathered he was from the labour corps, so did they move around with the regiment? Thank again.

[Ken Lees]

Joss,

When you look at Edwin Smith's service papers, the index says there are two pages and the first one that comes up is his "Proceedings on Discharge" sheet. Actually, that isn't the first page at all, so if you'd clicked "previous" instead of next, you would have seen many more pages, including medical reports. Ancestry's indexing system is very poor.

You local library will probably have access to Ancestry and you can either save the pages or e-mail them to yourself.

I didn't read Charles Cookson's papers, but often, men were medically downgraded as unfit for front line work and were transferred to the Labour Corps. This was completely seperate from his original regiment. He was originally in the 7th KSLI.

Ken

[jossw]

Wow, thanks very much for your help Ken. I will check that out soon, I would have had no idea if you hadn't said that there are previous pages. Thanks for the info on the labour corps too. On the MIC I thought it meant he was in the labour corps attached to the KSLI, but that makes much more sense with his two numbers aswell. Many Thanks.

[6th Shropshires]

Hi Joss

Welcome to the forum.

I can't add much more to what Ken as seid about your Great Grandad, Edwin James Alfred Smith. His pension papers do not give much info. I think he joined the 7th Battalion in June 1916, because the Regimental History records that the Battalion recieved its first draft of "Derby" men (your Great Grandad was a "Derby" scheme man) in this month. He is very likely to have took part in the Battle of Bazentin Ridge, 14th July (do not forget this is guess work on my part from the info. I have collected over the years). After holding the line until 21st July the Battalion moved to Montauban. On the 23rd one detachment proceeded to Delville Wood and the remainder to Bernafay Wood to dig a C.T. On the 26th the Battalion moved to Happy Valley, near Bray, and the next day proceeded to Meaulte. On the 18th August the Battalion was placed under the orders of the 76th Brigade, moved up to support the 10th R.W.F. for their attack on Lonely Trench. The R.W.F. took their part of the trench but had to withdraw. The 7th K.S.L.I. took this trench the next day and renamed it Shropshire Trench, this was not a hard task because the Germans had not re-occupied the trench, and were in the Falfemont Farm-Wedge Wood line.

Charles Henry Cookson papers are fire & water damaged but are readable in most places. He returned to U.K. in Feb. 1916,suffering from illness. He was sent to Salonica in Aug. 1916, and joined the 2nd Battalion, here he suffered a lot from maleria, and returned to U.k. at end of April 1918. He was sent to France at the end of August 1918, and posted to the 1st Battalion but I do not think he joined them (the writing is very faded at this point) but stayed at the 2nd Infantry Base Depot until transfarred to the L.C. on 22-09-18.

Regards

Annette

[jossw]

Thanks very much for the info, thats very helpful. So if he only joined the battalion in June 1916, what does the length of service on his record (which says 1 year and 240 days) include? Would that be from the point of joining up to the date of discharge? As he was discharged on the 4th August 1917. Cheers, Joss.

[NeilEvans]

Joss, were your family members from Shropshire? I have numerous parish rolls of honour that remembers the men who served.

Neil