Your Country Needs You

[funfly]

Thank you David.

As we have a lot of images in the book, In order to keep the file size low I have had to really reduce the file size of each image. It's a pity as some of the pictures are really good.

Of course the minute I published it I found typos. I remember when I was oil painting, at some stage you had yo say 'that's it' although you can go on improving a painting for ever. I had a system where I signed a painting then said 'no more' and that proved best for me.

I am keeping a list of the typos reported to me (three so far) and in a week or so will update all the files.

Hope you are enjoying the book and I am pleased to hear your positive comments. You will notice that is tries to be 'readable' rather than just loads of dusty facts.

What I am waiting to hear is any information gleaned from the book that people didn't know before - especially in this forum which contains some knowledgable contributors.

Indeed, in the book, we have given our thangs to members of this forum.

http://www.kitchenerposter.co.uk/

[MichaelBully]

Just bought a copy Martyn and looking forward to readng it ! Wishing you success with it. Regards, Michael Bully

[spof]

Martyn and James

Have you seen this?

http://www.1914.org/news/large-collection-of-original-first-world-war-posters-to-be-digitised/

[JamesMSTaylor]

Firstly let me say publicly (as others above) well done Martyn and Tony for producing the ebook. I need to go through again but my speed read reveals to me that this is something worthy of wider distribution - albeit Martyn and I agree to disagree on some matters - and of course that's what makes life interesting.

It's a shame that we cannot arrange a BOGOF - just in case you think I am being rude - from memory the acronym stands for buy one get one free. The booksellers used to claim this was a great way to sell books although I am not so sure these days.

There is some new material that I have just seen that proves the importance of the influence of London Opinion magazine in Germany and how Leete's cartoon of Lord Kitchener was parodied in German satirical magazines such as Jugend, Lustige Blätter and Simpliccismus. It is very interesting to see how the Germans perceived us through their propoganda. My fiancee is half-German so all being well I will be merging with a Teuton next year - if I pass all the tests!

To reply to SPOF I spoke with the curator Vincent a few days ago and sadly he could not recall any of the pointy finger posters in their collection. But it is excellent news that they have the resources to conserve and digitize them.

James

[Kate Wills]

An accusatory finger pointing from a poster was a common sight in the run-up to WW1, as the device was employed for adverts for the operetta The Chocolate Soldier. The finger belonged to old Colonel Popov, who like Kitchener, sported a florid moustache.

[funfly]

Kate, that is interesting, have you an image anywhere?

Martyn

[eairicbloodaxe]

Interesting!

Did a bit of googling, all I could turn up are these:

One from 1910, the other 1912.

There are plenty of other images too, but none with a mustachioed gentleman pointing.

From wikipedia:

The Chocolate Soldier (German title: Der tapfere Soldat or Der Praliné-Soldat) is an operetta composed in 1908 by Oscar Straus (1870–1954) based on George Bernard Shaw's 1894 play, Arms and the Man.

As Der tapfere Soldat ("The Brave Soldier"), it premiered on 14 November 1908 at the Theater an der Wien,^[1] under the baton of Robert Stolz with Grete Holm singing Nadina, where it was a considerable success.^[3]

The first English-language version premiered in New York, translated by Stanislaus Stange, on 13 September 1909, where it was the hit of the Broadway season.^[2] It was revived on Broadway in 1910, 1921, 1930, 1931, 1934, and 1947 (with a revised libretto by Guy Bolton.^[4] Its London premiere at the Lyric Theatre in 1910, was also a tremendous success,^[2] running for 500 performances.^[4] The operetta was adapted as a silent film in 1915.

Regards

Ian

[johnboy]

PM WARWICK, Funfly. He has a thread running it may be called 22Div theatre group or similar He had a relative who left loads of theatrical stuff and he has posted programmes for The Chocolate Soldier. He may have some more or even some posters.

[funfly]

Well, people are buying the book, I hope they are enjoying it.

Martyn

[funfly]

We have a very unique thing. We offer a download that is formatted suitable to have a book printed by you. This allows you to have a copy which is more like a book to read but, of course, doesn't have the features that epubs have i.e. size variation, mobile reading etc.

Using an online program like Lulu.com it is possible for you to upload the file and have returned to you a printed book in various formats. The cost will be up to you and it's not cheap if you use colour option - a single book could cost around £25.

As long as we don't sell you a printed book and the book is for your personal use, we don't have any problems.

The files are already loaded on the internet so we can help anyone who is interested.

We have also made a couple of modifications to our website based on suggestions from here - thanks.

Martyn

http://www.kitchenerposter.co.uk

[eairicbloodaxe]

Great idea, Martyn!

Regards

Ian

[GRANVILLE]

This morning the Sunday Telegraph has a 1st part to a series they are running entitled 'Inside the First World War.' Its half a dozen pages of quite interesting reading. What caught my eye in relation to this thread is the reproduced recruiting poster on its 1st page. I can't say I recall seeing it before? It shows 'Tommy's' hang out of train carriage about to depart, and under the head-line 'There's room for you,' it shows one man arm raised and with his fore finger clearly beckoning the viewer to join them, and the man beside him is also looking straight at the viewer and is pointing his right hand as per Kitchener. The hand drawn poster is clearly very early as the men are wearing a mix of webbing and leather kit. Elsewhere in the same supplement is a good reproduction of the superb paining by Eric Kennington: 'The Kensingtons at Laventie.' The painting is full of detail such as the Lance Corporal with knife and spoon tucked into the top of his puttees, and how they have found different ways of protecting their rifles against the mud etc. If you get to see it, I'd appreciate thoughts on what has been painted in the lower right. A broken cart wheel lies on its side and lying on top of it is something circular and red and something cylindrical and blue. Obviously of significance to the artist, but I can't figure what they will be.

David

[NigelS]

...Elsewhere in the same supplement is a good reproduction of the superb paining by Eric Kennington: 'The Kensingtons at Laventie.' The painting is full of detail such as the Lance Corporal with knife and spoon tucked into the top of his puttees, and how they have found different ways of protecting their rifles against the mud etc. If you get to see it, I'd appreciate thoughts on what has been painted in the lower right. A broken cart wheel lies on its side and lying on top of it is something circular and red and something cylindrical and blue. Obviously of significance to the artist, but I can't figure what they will be.

'The Kensingtons at Laventie.' is available for viewing Here I've no idea what the items are either, perhaps possessions from wrecked evacuee cart rather than anything of military significance?

NigelS

[NigelS]

Remembered that I'd been intending to post this as an example of modern day usage of the Kitchener image

NigelS

[spconnolly007]

The red item appears to be the top of a water urn, or large jug?

[funfly]

Interesting Telegraph article, I think we are going to get a lot of the in the next few months. The painting is a bit perplexing but I suppose the artist could give some clues about it.

Just reading (in my own book doing some checks) 20,000 men killed in one day. Easy to write about it but these figures are really unbelievable - what a slaughter.

Martyn

[GRANVILLE]

The red item appears to be the top of a water urn, or large jug?

To be honest, I think the Telegraph article reproduces the painting to a higher standard that the website link above. The red coloured article looks as if it may be made of cloth rather than pot (urn suggestion). I was just intrigued in that they are clearly specific items as far as the artist was concerned - appropriate to the paintings setting and yet I couldn't figure what they could have been? The recruiting poster with pointing finger can be viewed here: http://www.ww1propaganda.com/ww1-poster/theres-room-you-enlist-day

David

[funfly]

Much as I wish otherwise, I think that it is wishful thinking to regard the pointing finger by the soldier in the poster as anything but a gesture of the arm.

Matyn

[funfly]

Is there a Michael on here who has bought the book?

[funfly]

So the book is launched. Here are the details (and yes, I know this is a blatant advert but I am one of you ):

We are proud to offer you The Kitchener Poster - a book based around events that surrounded the Great War posters with the words; 'Your Country Needs You' and 'Kitchener Wants You' - images and words that have remained with us as an icon of the First World War.

Claims been made about the poster range from ‘The most effective poster of the war’ to ‘The poster didn’t exist at all’. We look at all these claims and bring a sense of reality to the arguments.

The book offers a glimpse of Edwardian times and the events that led up to the recruitment campaign in 1914. It follows the poster through its oft repeated forms and offers insights as to why the poster became great and continues to be popular to this day.With over 60 pictures, many in colour, this is a full size book, a well researched volume and an interesting read which will appeal to everyone - In printed book form this would cost you £18.95

Special offer during launch month - just £2.99

our ebook is available for viewing on most computers or mobile devices and we even offer one file suitable for you to print.

http://www.kitchenerposter.co.uk/

Our website carries a link to this forum out of appreciation for all your help.

Martyn Thatcher

[MichaelBully]

Yes that's me Martyn.

Is there a Michael on here who has bought the book?

[kenneth505]

3. The design was copied within months by the US (the Uncle Sam poster) and by at least three European countries to use in their recruiting campaign. This could only have resulted if the poster was visible somewhere.[\quote]

This image has such iconic roots in the US with Uncle Sam replacing KofK that it was surprising to discover it was derivative. However is there any history of the first use and by what graphic artists from the States to help you put a better timeline on the Kitchener version?

[funfly]

MichaelBully,

would you be so kind as to email me direct. Please use the 'contact' form on the website at http://www.kitchenerposter.co.uk

From the release note above you may be able to guess the reason.

Martyn

Ken Santa Fe.

We have quite a few details about the US poster in our book.

Martyn

[Peter Doyle]

What he is actually claiming is that this poster was never used as a recruiting poster in WW1.

...and he's right, as far as I know this is a later rendition. There are no records anywhere that suggest this was a 1914 poster.

However, he is one of the 'big boys' and his publicity machine has good resources. After seeing it in the papers etc. are people now going to think that there never was a Kitchener poster in WW1? It was all made up by the media maybe.

I've come late to this thread - I've had a debate with the Daily Telegraph journalist regarding the 'revelation' and he says just what you are saying here: that the poster you've illustrated did not exist. But in my mind this confuses the issue, as we know that two versions did exist - the 'Want's You' poster (sold in facsimile by the IWM) and what has become known as the 'flags poster' - this latter one carrying the fateful words 'Your Country Needs You'. This certainly did exist. I have handled an original (it is one of the objects in my forthcoming 'History of the First world War in 100 Objects' book). What is being argued is a matter of semantics. The fact that the Daily Mail carried the story of the Kitchener Poster as urban myth - together with the Briton's Want's You poster shows how the public will be persuaded that no Kitchener pointing finger poster ever existed. This is nonsense.

Edit: Having now read down to the end of the thread I can see how things developed. My discussion with the journalist seems to have been supported - that is, that the idea would grow that no poster with a Kitchener pointing finger was ever issued, which we can see is untrue. I am in the fortunate position of having read James' book in ms form, and can say that it is well researched and written, and would agree that the root of the contention comes from the later rendering by journalists.

[funfly]

And of course here is a bit if the poster distributed in 1915 which does have the words (it's also in the IWM).... James Taylor is, unfortunately, wrong.