MichaelBully Posted 10 August , 2013 Share Posted 10 August , 2013 Hello Martyn, yes a topic I was particularly researching. The Lord Kitchener conspiracy theories flourished from 1916 -1926 ranging from claims that he was still alive to those who maintained that he was murdered, a victim of a political conspiracy. I knew that Power ( who was quite a popular journalist) got trumped as it were as the British authorities managed to find a legal basis to open the coffin that was allegedly that of Lord Kitchener and was brought in from Norway and found that it was empty. The National Archives show that the British authorities were monitoring Power and his antics. I am more interested in the psychological basis for such claims. My view is that Lord Kitchener represented the triumphs of a bygone era and a figure people wanted to hold on to in the face of such upheaval as the Great War, and its cultural aftermath. The Kitchener conspiracy lobby seemed to have attracted Hoaxers and eccentrics which has distracted from their core argument. Regards Michael Bully Anyone know anything about this? "In 1916 hoaxer Frank Power claimed to have recovered Kitchener's body and a funeral at St Paul's Cathedral was planned. However, suspicious officials opened the coffin to discover it was filled with tar rather than the remains of the great strategist. Charges were never laid against Power, however, and speculation about the fate of Kitchener continued." Edited to add; I see that it has been previously discussed here: http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=119775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HerbertK Posted 11 August , 2013 Share Posted 11 August , 2013 Hi there all, this is Laura from Saraband, the publisher of James Taylor's upcoming book Your Country Needs You. I've been following the thread with great interest, glad to see James himself contributing to the conversation. Just thought I'd pipe in with no more than a few confirmations of what James has already said re papers taking a puff phrase to new heights. Indeed the press release uses the phrase that the original poster itself 'never existed' but goes on to clarify the mis-categorisation and explains its origins as the London Opinion etc in detail. Once it's in the hands of the media, it's really out of our hands, they pick and choose what they want to run with. The comments in the likes of the Telegraph article were a little surprising, though many seem to suggest that they didn't get past the first few paragraphs. I can also say we (publisher) have never and would never alter Wiki entries in such a way that has been done, you can be assured of that. Despite these grand generalisations in the media, I'm glad to see the participants of this forum being responsive to the real and valuable research done in the book and hope you enjoy the book should you choose to grab a copy. The launch at the National Army Museum on Sept 7th should be a good one and am overjoyed to hear there will be attendants from this forum. Should make for some very stimulating conversation. (only wish I could attend myself, alas, work to be done in the Glasgow office!) If anyone has any questions or would like clarification surrounding the book/media please do let me know (though I'm sure James will be the more authoritative voice in most cases!), I will be active on this thread for the foreseeable future. Thanks everyone, Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 11 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 11 August , 2013 Hi Laura, welcome to this wonderful topic. I think that most of us on this thread realise that James was very much misquoted in the press and, to be honest, he has answered all our questions on here fully and openly. I for one will be attending the NAM on 7th. September and I hope we will see others from this worthy forum. I have had a glimpse of some of James' book and would highly recommend it to others with an interest in the subject. You may know that I have a book coming out later in the year based around the same subject, however it is a totally different read and should sit comfortably with your own publication. Look forward to meeting you, and any other forum members, on 7th. September. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HerbertK Posted 11 August , 2013 Share Posted 11 August , 2013 Hi Martyn, I'm very glad you've had a chance to see the book and like what you see so far, we hope it'll have a good response from both those well versed and unfamiliar with the subject. I myself learned a lot from James' book, would have appreciated something like it when I was at school, my knowledge sadly lacking in that area. I'm intrigued by your own publication, I assume you will be sharing it on here, I look forward to reading all about it and seeing how it compares with James' output, certainly some fascinating evidence has popped up on here! As I said I sadly won't be able to attend the launch myself being based in Edinburgh/Glasgow with prior commitments and the like, but I think someone from Saraband will be there, if not Sara herself (will have to check that) and I'm sure she'll be happy to discuss any and all subjects that come up. If you know of anyone who would be interested in going (on and off the forum) please do encourage them to buy tickets, there are plenty left and we really would like to make this a nice full and interactive event. Thanks again, Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 12 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 August , 2013 I do not think it would be professional of me to 'push' my own book while James' book is in the middle of a launch. I will, of course, be sharing details on here in due course - after all that's what started this thread. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 13 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 13 August , 2013 (edited) I have just been reading 'Kitchener's last volunteer, The life of Henry Allingham, the oldest Surviving (sic) Veteran of the Great War'. By Henry Allingham and Dennis Goodwin Mainstream Publishing Company, Edinborough 2008. Great information on WW1 in it as well as interesting recollections by the old man himself (Henry died on 18th. July 2009). He refers to our Kitchener poster in the book and the part that the poster played in the recruiting campaign. Edited 13 August , 2013 by funfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 13 August , 2013 Share Posted 13 August , 2013 Yes- please keep us informed. Looking at this thread, there seems to be enough interesting material for two books. I will treat myself to both ! Regards I do not think it would be professional of me to 'push' my own book while James' book is in the middle of a launch. I will, of course, be sharing details on here in due course - after all that's what started this thread. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony43 Posted 14 August , 2013 Share Posted 14 August , 2013 Hi all. What a fascinating thread this has turned out to be. Not exactly what has been asked for - but here are two more posters of Kitchener with pointing finger. Best wishes, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 14 August , 2013 Share Posted 14 August , 2013 Is there any verification that these are genuine posters of the day, or made up to look the part many years later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 14 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 14 August , 2013 When the Imperial War Museum acquired the Leete artwork it was folded and you can see the marks of the fold on the original artwork in the IWM. When the original posters were made (also the front page of the London Opinion) they obviously used the artwork without the fold marks and some seem to have redrawn to cap. In the above two posters you can see the fold mark which goes from the top centre of his cap to the centre of his badge, therefore these were made from the artwork after it was acquired by the IWM. It may be added that the IWM own the artwork therefore any reproductions of that artwork requires their permission (and a fee) as opposed to any reproductions of original posters where would be impossible to verify the owners of the poster. Edited to add; Although the posters above do carry the little text "permission of the London Opinion" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 14 August , 2013 Share Posted 14 August , 2013 Do the IWM hold the original artwork and was catalogued "poster" as it survived. You print 1000 flyers to promote a business the only copy may be the original the printers worked off. Posters are seen as disposable items. So why would any survive? Also rare pictures as photography not widespread, even today who takes pictures of "billboards"??? Just a small bizarre theory. So carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 14 August , 2013 Share Posted 14 August , 2013 It is not a case of taking pictures of billboards. It is why it is rare to see posters in general scenes of streets and recruitment centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 14 August , 2013 Share Posted 14 August , 2013 It is not a case of taking pictures of billboards. It is why it is rare to see posters in general scenes of streets and recruitment centres. Exactly. Regards posters. How much do early James Bond posters sell for? Very iconic and wide spread 40 odd years ago. Most binned so survivor posters sell for a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 15 August , 2013 Share Posted 15 August , 2013 Exactly. Regards posters. How much do early James Bond posters sell for? Very iconic and wide spread 40 odd years ago. Most binned so survivor posters sell for a premium. Hence the generic collectors name for such material - ephemera - from the Greek for "one day". Material that simply never was designed for long term survival: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 15 August , 2013 Share Posted 15 August , 2013 Funfly - happy birthday ! 75? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 15 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2013 Thanks a lot. 75 today. After a life of hardship, hard work and my fair share of tragedy, I find that despite the physical deterioration that comes with age, I am enjoying some of the best times of my life. Its quite good being my age - don't let anyone else tell you different. Over the last few years I have learned to fly, obtained an honours degree and written a book that I hope you will help swell in revenue. Maybe within the next few years I will keel over and that will be my lot - it doesn't concern me and when I do go it won't worry me 'cause I will be gone. I take the attitude that I have never been worried about what happened before I was born so why should I be concerned about a time after I'm dead. I just hope that everyone else will remember that I had such a good time while I was here. So my next step is the launch of my own book in October which will be called 'The Kitchener Poster'. Website is ready as are Twitter and Facebook pages. All will be announced on here in due course - you will be the first to know. One thing I can tell you is that it will be the most interesting book on the subject ever written, bringing together everything relevant that has been written on it to date plus a lot more. My friends on this thread, none of whom I have never met, have played a large part in the book's production and I owe you all a debt of gratitude. Having said that I have no plans to share with you any of the millions that I am sure to make from book sales. Martyn Thatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 16 August , 2013 Share Posted 16 August , 2013 Happy belated birthday Martyn If you do decide to use my photo of 'Kitchener in downstairs toilet' in your book, I WILL be expecting royalties Best wishes, Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 16 August , 2013 Share Posted 16 August , 2013 Happy Birthday Martyn ! Do please keep updating us re. your book. Michael Bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 16 August , 2013 Share Posted 16 August , 2013 Happy birthday. Look forward to further book updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 18 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2013 The Kitchener Poster. We are going to try for a launch date of 20th. September 2013 http://www.thekitchenerposter.co.uk Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Great news- but am I missing something? Will this book be solely via Kindle or as an E book? Regards Michael Bully The Kitchener Poster. We are going to try for a launch date of 20th. September 2013 http://www.thekitchenerposter.co.uk Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 18 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Initially our plan is to publish it as an ebook and a Kindle book. We are currently taking a decision on a printed book but there are costs involved and we are not 100% sure that the level of interest in a book so specialist will make it worth it. We may try a small print run to put our toes in the water so to speak. Would be pleased to hear your thoughts on this. http://www.thekitchenerposter.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 In my opinion, there is no substitute for a real book in your hands. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 18 August , 2013 Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Exactly . Martyn- I would even go further and add that if you want the work to end up in the places that count for research purposes such as the British Library, a printed copy is vital. I read on line books that are out of print or rare but would certainly want a new printed book for a subject that I am interested in. In all honesty I would generally be suspicious of a new book that appears solely on line - as I've got to read your posts on GWF and realise that you have thorougly researched the subject, I will buy the book in any format but certainly would prefer the printed form. Regards Michael Bully In my opinion, there is no substitute for a real book in your hands. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 18 August , 2013 Author Share Posted 18 August , 2013 Food for thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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