Seany Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 We had a really good day today and it was great to meet Sean and Dave. Martyn Even better to flog a couple of books? Still free cup of coffee with every book bought .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 11 November , 2013 Share Posted 11 November , 2013 Alex in today's Telegraph NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 12 November , 2013 Share Posted 12 November , 2013 Just noticed that a certain Mr. James Taylor is giving a talk titled 'Your Country Needs You' at the Imperial War Museum on 2nd December 2.30 pm, organised by the Friends of the IWM. Would be pleased to attend if can get time off work. Never normally get round to the Friends of the IWM talks though have been a member for some years. Presume that they are open to non-members. Regards Michael Bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 11 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2013 I was interviewed today by BBC Radio Northampton as part of their program to be transmitted about Alfred Leete (Who was born near Northampton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 12 December , 2013 Share Posted 12 December , 2013 Funnily enough, that's where I was this morning, discussing a future feature. Who interviewed you Martyn, and when can we hear it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 12 December , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 December , 2013 Guy called Will Gilder. He very kindly met me halfway and did the interview at the Birmingham School of Jewellery where I am doing a course. Don't know when the thing will be broadcast but I assume it might be next year. He has promised to let me know when. Program will be about Alfred Leete and the interview was relative to this however I managed to get in a word about the misleading information on the poster caused by the 'other' book as well as quite a bit of stuff about the poster itself. How much of what I said will be in the program I don't know (if any!) Martyn P.S. Do you have any interest in concert parties in WW2? Reason I ask is that I can let you have some information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eairicbloodaxe Posted 26 January , 2014 Share Posted 26 January , 2014 Oh Dear Oh Dear... I saw this in the newsagents today... Mr Leete will be a spinnin' and a turnin'... Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 My son met Paxman and asked him to sign a copy of his WW1 book (to give to me as a present). My son, who has a beard, lightheartedly asked Paxman how he was enjoying his beard, whereupon Paxman started to be abusive to him, calling him a 'Cretin' amongst other things. Didn't rate him very highly in my opinion. His book was not a bad read and had one or two interesting observations but overall it repeated all the anecdotes that have been written before and, I think, will get repeated over and over again as this year progresses. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Being irritable in public in bad enough, being insultingly abusive quite another, and at a promotional event too! I would have been inclined to belt him around the chops with his own book, and damn the consequences. Why should he think he's above the norms of civilised behaviour? By the way, to answer your question in post 356, no I don't research WW2 concert parties, but I'm always happy to receive information as an insight into their continuing history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Hi Kate, Unlike you I was a young person during WW2. I lived in the Cotswolds at a pub and every year we had a visit from a concert party from Pentwynmwr in South Wales. We were located between four air camps and most of our 'regulars' were from these camps. I remember well D day when the air was full of tugged gliders, some managed to land in fields behind us for 'technical' reasons. Can you really blame them for pulling the rope before the long trip to who knows what? Enough of WW1. Has anyone done any research or theorised about what would have happened had we not honoured our treaty with Belgium in 1914 and thus not entered the conflict with Germany. One assumes that Germany would have got as far as the coast and conditions in France might have been poor for a while but is it possible that the carnage of the Great War would have been less and the economics of the UK remained good. Is it possible that the German Socialist party might have not come to power and WW2 been averted? We were certainly nearer to Germany at the time with France allied to Russia. Have there been any studies on this? Mart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Oh Dear Oh Dear... I saw this in the newsagents today... Mr Leete will be a spinnin' and a turnin'... First_World_War_special_issue.jpg Regards Ian I think considering the abuse the image has had over the years Mr Leete would be delighted by an homage that gets the skin tone, shape, and font so spot on. I have a wall in my classroom covered with versions brought to me over the years by students. It includes one featuring Robbie Williams, also from the RT and another from the Sun featuring a certain well know footballer with the slogan 'Your Country needs Roo'. However I think the nadir is the Colman's mustard advert where K of K is portrayed entirely of pieces of meat!! Now that must really have had Leete revolving. I must take a picture and post it. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 28 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 28 January , 2014 Has anyone done any research or theorised about what would have happened had we not honoured our treaty with Belgium in 1914 and thus not entered the conflict with Germany. One assumes that Germany would have got as far as the coast and conditions in France might have been poor for a while but is it possible that the carnage of the Great War would have been less and the economics of the UK remained good. Is it possible that the German Socialist party might have not come to power and WW2 been averted? We were certainly nearer to Germany at the time with France allied to Russia. Have there been any studies on this? Mart So called 'counter factual' history was recently called b*lls by one distinguished historian, can't put my hand to the reference at the moment! One academic who has considered this, what he prefers to call 'virtual history' is Niall Ferguson who has got considerable mileage from an essay published in 'Virtual History' http://www.amazon.co.uk/Virtual-History-Alternatives-Counte-Counterfactuals/dp/0465023231 'What if Britain had stood aside in 1914'. His argument is a quick continental German Victory would not necessarily have been a bad thing as if the UK had not become involved they would have accepted a 'European Union' and retained control of their Empire. You can find a more comprehensive review on the web. Another book that came out around the same time was What If? edited by Robert Cowley I think I might have read it but it didn't make much of an impression. Also interesting are the comments on this blog http://alternatehistoryweeklyupdate.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/almost-certain-victory-strategic.html and a couple of historical fictions are discussed on this thread but as noted in the blog WW1 is not especially a fertile ground for counter factual after 1914. Although it's your thread we're getting a bit off topic though no doubt we can expect more over the next four years. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Interesting post Ken about counter-factual history. It's an entertaining subject . I tried writing a counter-factual history piece concerning K of K dying of fever at Fashoda in 1898. British newspapers starting various conspiracy theories that Kitchener had really been poisoned by the French, and tensions between the two countries deteriorating. The Boer War (without K of K's presence) still went ahead in my model but turned into an even longer, unpopular war with Britain having to employ more and more resources in trying to defeat a guerilla army of Boers, supported by German and Dutch volunteers and financial assistance. The Entente Coridal didn't take place and Britain remained neutral in 1914 until British shipping started getting held up and its cargo seized by waring powers....then I just ran out of ideas. One of the reasons I find K of K such an intriguing historical figure is that there were counter-factual theories about him during the Great War and when he died there were two counter-factual camps. One maintaining that he was still alive and would re-emerge at a designated time, another lobby argued that he was assassinated for political reasons. And the latter view managed to carry on until 1926 then went into decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ridgus Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Interesting post Ken about counter-factual history. It's an entertaining subject . I tried writing a counter-factual history piece concerning K of K dying of fever at Fashoda in 1898. British newspapers starting various conspiracy theories that Kitchener had really been poisoned by the French, and tensions between the two countries deteriorating. The Boer War (without K of K's presence) still went ahead in my model but turned into an even longer, unpopular war with Britain having to employ more and more resources in trying to defeat a guerilla army of Boers, supported by German and Dutch volunteers and financial assistance. The Entente Coridal didn't take place and Britain remained neutral in 1914 until British shipping started getting held up and its cargo seized by waring powers....then I just ran out of ideas. One of the reasons I find K of K such an intriguing historical figure is that there were counter-factual theories about him during the Great War and when he died there were two counter-factual camps. One maintaining that he was still alive and would re-emerge at a designated time, another lobby argued that he was assassinated for political reasons. And the latter view managed to carry on until 1926 then went into decline. Get that thinking cap on Michael! I want to find out whether we join the war or not. Did the Schlieffen Plan work? We need to know! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 31 January , 2014 Share Posted 31 January , 2014 Ok David I'll try to get into a parallel universe and see what happens ! Because I have an interest in the history of The Netherlands , I keep thinking how would Britain have reacted if a belligerent power started interfering with our trade if we were a neutral nation? If one power's navy started bullying us and seizing our cargo , a rival belligerent power even started planting mines in sea routes we regularly use or firing torpedoes at us ? I think that the experience of The Netherlands during the Great War is worthy of its own thread. With regards to Lord K of K, I think that trying to picture a world without him after 1898 sort of gets one thinking about his role in world history from 1898- 1916. In my counter factual model Britain becomes less of an imperial power without K of K. He represented a re-assuring sense of continuity, connecting the late Victorian era to a modern age. The use of his image was designed for maximuim impact but he must already have been quite a significant refereance point Regards Michael Bully Get that thinking cap on Michael! I want to find out whether we join the war or not. Did the Schlieffen Plan work? We need to know! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 31 January , 2014 Admin Share Posted 31 January , 2014 I see Ferguson is still promoting his hypothesis in this month's BBC History magazine http://www.historyextra.com/news/niall-ferguson-“britain-should-have-stayed-out-first-world-war” Where did you go wrong Michael? You could have built an Empire on your 'model'- btw admired your attempt to get the thread back on track! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 Hello Ken, I will look out my piece re. ' Kitchener dies at Fashoda' and place it on 'Skindles' ! If I learn how to get back to a parallel universe I might even add a bit more to it. Have also treated myself to BBC History Magazine this morning. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Regards Michael Bully I see Ferguson is still promoting his hypothesis in this month's BBC History magazine http://www.historyextra.com/news/niall-ferguson-“britain-should-have-stayed-out-first-world-war” Where did you go wrong Michael? You could have built an Empire on your 'model'- btw admired your attempt to get the thread back on track! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 1 February , 2014 Share Posted 1 February , 2014 I was in a care home last week (visiting, not admitted) and saw a book with on the cover what looks like the Kitchener poster without the crease, so an original image? I photographed it on my blackberry and once I work out how to do so I will post the pictures here, hopefully later tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Are these taken from originals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 6 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Old Sweats, The IWM sell a facsimile of this poster very much in this form. The image may have been copied from the internet - there are plenty around. Reproduction, of course, requires a licence from the IWM and a reference to the IWM in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 6 February , 2014 Share Posted 6 February , 2014 Old Sweats, The IWM sell a facsimile of this poster very much in this form. The image may have been copied from the internet - there are plenty around. Reproduction, of course, requires a licence from the IWM and a reference to the IWM in the book. Who are you calling sweaty and old? I'll have you know I just had a bath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 11 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2014 Sorry, I have just realised that I took the name from the 'rank' under the avatar It was, of course, seany. BTW, what does the 'old sweats' mean? are there 'young sweats'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 11 February , 2014 Share Posted 11 February , 2014 Funfly -you are also in 'the old sweats' category ! And so am I! In GWF speak it means you have submitted at least 100 posts and you can join Skindles ! I don't know what comes after 'old sweats ' -'ancient sweats' maybe? !!!! Sorry, I have just realised that I took the name from the 'rank' under the avatar It was, of course, seany. BTW, what does the 'old sweats' mean? are there 'young sweats'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 12 February , 2014 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2014 Since I posted on here that I wondered if there had been any books on what might have happened if we had not entered WW1 and had one or two responses, I have received a number of emails from Amazon with details of a number of books on the subject. Funny ol' world innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMSTaylor Posted 21 February , 2014 Share Posted 21 February , 2014 Hello Martyn, Michael and fellow thread followers, Wonder if followers could clarify a claim made by Professor Gary Sheffield and Anthony Quinn that Eric Field devised the slogan 'Your Country Needs You'. A claim that supports a central pillar propping up the popularity of this poster by the camp who believe that Your Country Needs You' was the dominant poster of the war. I thought Eric Field devised the slogan 'Your King and Country Need You' for Hedley Le Bas before the official declaration of war, and this became the official recruiting slogan at the outset? Any thoughts? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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