depaor01 Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 I tried to find the image on the Getty website and found lots of Lusitania images but not that one... Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 Interesting... my first thought on looking at the cork picture was "that looks like a film still". Especially as the two shots show one man in the same position and expression while others move around him. Regards Ian Sorry I should have made it clear - the two shots are of the same photo, one to incorporate the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMSTaylor Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 Hi Martyn, Thanks for the welcome back. No salt here and no wounds just a passion for the subject although as all followers already know we have different points of view. Does this photograph provide conclusive evidence of the mass dominance, mass popular appeal and mass effectiveness of this design throughout World War I as so many specialists have claimed? It's still a no from me as you and I know that there were more than 200 posters produced all vying for attention and a number having far more exposure than pointy finger designs - for example the silhouette poster being far more adaptable and effective as presented at the Imperial War Museum conference. I don't have the words to describe my recent travels in Vietnam and Cambodia before arriving in Australia. I have no doubt that many of you will have experienced the 'Killing Fields'. Standing near, or sometimes on, victims of that horrendous regime whilst walking around the official authorised pathways is an experience you never forget. Before Cambodia there were many shops in Vietnam selling propaganda war posters of the 1940s, 50s, 60s and 70s and some showed thrusting arms but sadly none with pointing fingers. Back to the main thread. Can we locate more examples of the Cobh image in England, Wales and Scotland? As Kitchener was born in Southern Ireland maybe David Allen and Sons who devised the pointy poster variant thought it would have some sway there. That is surprising as I would have thought they might perceive him as mainland establishment figure. Back in Sydney tomorrow. Happy to chat. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 17 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2013 mass dominance, mass popular appeal and mass effectiveness of this design throughout World War I as so many specialists have claimed or claiming that it never existed as some other specialists have claimed I would suggest that both 'specialists' are wrong and that the answer lies somewhere in between. which is the stance that we have taken in our own book on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 17 October , 2013 Share Posted 17 October , 2013 Yes great to have James back in this discussion and to hear about his trip : Have now got both 'Kitchener poster' books by James and Martyn. James, the question of Kitchener's appeal in Ireland is one I hadn't thought of but from the top of my head I can't think of what evidence there is to say that Kitchener maintained much of a connection with Ireland after his youth, and can't even think of an example of Kitchener visiting Ireland during the Great War. Must consult my Kitchener biographies. Regards Michael Bully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMSTaylor Posted 18 October , 2013 Share Posted 18 October , 2013 Hello Michael, Thanks for your posting. There is a lot to be teased out in terms of Kitchener and Ireland. Interestingly I am discovering that he was not popular in Australia during WWI. I recently saw the Leete BRITONS poster in the State Gallery, Victoria. Amazing in comparison to the Imperial War Museum example. Very good condition, clearly not publicly and a very vivid red colour compared to the faded IWM holding. They had no idea this was a rare beast in terms of survival. Surely we can find more examples then I have outlined. More must surface. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMSTaylor Posted 18 October , 2013 Share Posted 18 October , 2013 Hi Martyn. We both know they existed. Would it not be more productive if we could find an EU grant that could provide funds to sweep the UK and further afield in terms of identifying postcards, posters, newspapers accounts etc of WW1 to gain a more wide ranging insight into our shared interest? A thought . James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eairicbloodaxe Posted 18 October , 2013 Share Posted 18 October , 2013 I tried to find the image on the Getty website and found lots of Lusitania images but not that one... Strange. here it is... http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/survivors-from-the-lusitania-which-was-hit-by-a-u-boat-news-photo/3286472 Does look real when you see the whole thing! Also, is listed as dated 01 May 1915. Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 18 October , 2013 Share Posted 18 October , 2013 Good work Ian. It belongs in this thread so. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 18 October , 2013 Share Posted 18 October , 2013 Hello James, with regard to Kitchener and Australia , does the Gallipoli campaign connection have an impact on how Lord K. is viewed there? On a more general note, I have been going through 'The Lord Kitchener Memorial Book- published on behalf of the Lord Kitchener National Memorial Fund ' and amongst all the photos and illustrations , I can't find the 'Your Country Needs You' pointing finger poster. I will double check in case I missed it, but if my assumption is correct, then surprised that it was ommitted. Regards Michael Bully Hello Michael,Thanks for your posting. There is a lot to be teased out in terms of Kitchener and Ireland. Interestingly I am discovering that he was not popular in Australia during WWI.I recently saw the Leete BRITONS poster in the State Gallery, Victoria. Amazing in comparison to the Imperial War Museum example. Very good condition, clearly not publicly and a very vivid red colour compared to the faded IWM holding. They had no idea this was a rare beast in terms of survival. Surely we can find more examples then I have outlined. More must surface.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 19 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2013 James, Interesting to see the poster in the Australian museum. One wonders how it found its way to Australia. Is there any record that the London Opinion shipped there? Or did the museum acquire it post war? Do they have any information about where it came from? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 19 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2013 Visited the Army museum in Chester yesterday and found it an interesting place. It has to be said that, unlike many other museums, the staff were so friendly and helpful and it was a pleasure to talk to them. It seems a pity that places like this do not get the number of visitors they deserve, lets hope that with the forthcoming Great War centenary that interest will revive. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 19 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2013 We know that the Leete/London Opinion Kitchener poster must have been printed around mid September 1914 We now have a specific date for the 'Flag' Leete/Kitchener poster of before 1st May 1915, we know this as it was on the wall in Cork on that date. It would therefore be fairly safe to assume that the 'Flag' poster was printed mid April 1915. When you come to think of it that means that within 4 months of the Leete/London Opinion poster appearing on the streets the decision must have been made to use the same image again, to design (although perhaps not much in the way of 'design') and to print and circulate the 'Flag' Kitchener poster. Is there information of other poster designs copied in this way? I also wonder if the 'Flag' poster appeared previous to that with some other design in the centre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMSTaylor Posted 21 October , 2013 Share Posted 21 October , 2013 Hi, Martyn and Michael, sorry to have dropped out suddenly. Problems with wifi in parts of Oz and certainly bush fire problems too! So to get back to WW1 poster matters. Kitchener's visit to Australia had a mixed reception. I have been constantly told that there was a powerful Catholic presence and trade union movement here that did not like him. The latter feared that if a form of conscription was introduced as Kitchener recommended then that would encourage cheap foreign immigrants to come to Australia. I'm sure there's more to this than I can recount. Re the BRITONS poster in Melbourne. It is in better condition then the IWM example. Almost certainly it was never posted. What struck me was the vivid colour of the red which makes the IWM one appear faded. When you look closely at the lettering as with the IWM example the lettering appears wonky in terms of alignment. That said although only black and red in colour I must confess the poster does pack a punch in terms simplistic, forthright demand. Sadly no further details in the Museum's archive in terms of how it actually arrived there. One of the most popular posters in OZ and NZ was the 'Flag' design by Guy Lipscombe. The National Archives in Canberra contain letters from him encouraging the use of his design and this appears to have acted upon judging from the photographic evidence. No evidence yet of the posting of our posters but the last time I said that a few popped up - so here's hoping that they will In terms of the David and Allen variant. The IWM records claims a publication date of November 1914 but that does not seem to appear on the poster itself but perhaps from their acquisition records which are somewhat wayward. I suspect this will be clarified soon. Best for now. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 21 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2013 I wonder if Centurian has ever googled Souscrivez a l'emprunt de la Victoire ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelob Posted 21 October , 2013 Share Posted 21 October , 2013 Very interesting thread and the Irish connection occured to me too, Trinity College has recruitment posters in their collection issued here during the war. The Irish Times might be worth a search for pics with posters in place. Is it possible that there were wartime restrictions on photography which may acccount for the lack of actual photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 21 October , 2013 Share Posted 21 October , 2013 Hello James Interesting.....so it seems that Kitchener had already made himself unpopular in Australia during his Winter 1910 visit? Something I hadn't considered. Hope that the rest of your trip goes well. Regards Michael Bully <<<So to get back to WW1 poster matters. Kitchener's visit to Australia had a mixed reception. I have been constantly told that there was a powerful Catholic presence and trade union movement here that did not like him. The latter feared that if a form of conscription was introduced as Kitchener recommended then that would encourage cheap foreign immigrants to come to Australia. I'm sure there's more to this than I can recount.>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 26 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Well, Nantwich Bookshop launch today (26th.) Wish me success. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eairicbloodaxe Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Good luck. Hope you enjoy meeting the hordes! Must get a copy for myself via the website. Regards Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelBully Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Hope the event is roaring success. Good luck ! Well, Nantwich Bookshop launch today (26th.) Wish me success. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seany Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Well, Nantwich Bookshop launch today (26th.) Wish me success. Martyn On my way there for about 1300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusilier11 Posted 26 October , 2013 Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Martyn & Tony Great to meet you this morning, hope you have an enjoyable day and great success with the book. Thanks for the autographs! Regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 26 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2013 We had a really good day today and it was great to meet Sean and Dave. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 26 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Nantwich Bookshop Saturday 26th. October 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funfly Posted 26 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 October , 2013 Dave (Fusilier11) parting with some money - Anthony Quinn - Martyn Thatcher (Funfly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now