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trenchtrotter
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Here’s the answer Pat:

“The building [drill hall] originates from a pair of houses built in what was then known as New Street in 1833 and which were acquired by the 19th Surrey Rifle Volunteer Corps in 1865.  The 19th Surrey Rifle Volunteer Corps evolved to become the 4th Volunteer Battalion, Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) in 1883 and the 24th (County of London) Battalion (The Queen’s) in 1908.  The battalion was mobilised at the drill hall in August 1914 before being deployed to the Western Front.  When the London Regiment was broken up in 1937, the battalion became the 7th (Southwark) Battalion, the Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey). The drill hall, in what was by then known as Braganza Street, was substantially re-built at that time and the enlarged facility was opened by the Duke of Gloucester in 1938.”

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Great stuff, thanks Frogsmile - you (and RW) were right, of course. Must correct my notes!

 

Cheers, Pat

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15 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

Great stuff, thanks Frogsmile - you (and RW) were right, of course. Must correct my notes!

 

Cheers, Pat

Not at all Pat, same buildings just a change of street name, and if trying to find the location today your address would be correct.  It’s just a bit clearer now.

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On 22/08/2021 at 23:31, Pete_C said:

New Army Lincolnshire Regiment lads in impressive symbolic turnout for the camera in the back garden of their billet, likely mid to late 1916.

Pete

8E4A7F14-A733-407F-AD35-41312DA09EBF.jpeg

Apologies for being pedantic but I am not sure what you mean by New Army Lincolnshire Regiment Lads. But I guess that it depends on the definition of New Army. They appear to be Terriers and not from a Service Battalion, note the T shoulder titles. They are very probably from a second or third line Territorial battalion, so definitely War Raised but not strictly New Army in my understanding of the term.

Edited by high wood
Adding the word 'be'.
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3 hours ago, high wood said:

Apologies for being pedantic but I am not sure what you mean by New Army Lincolnshire Regiment Lads. But I guess that it depends on the definition of New Army. They appear to Terriers and not from a Service Battalion, note the T shoulder titles. They are very probably from a second or third line Territorial battalion, so definitely War Raised but not strictly New Army in my understanding of the term.

Yes you’re right, the term New Army/Armies referred exclusively to the formations comprised of war-raised (Kitchener volunteers) “Service Battalions” and excluded Territorials because they were specifically chosen as an alternative to the latter being expanded.  Kitchener did not want to tussle with Territorial Associations and so created something entirely novel so that he had full control of its terms and conditions of service. Given the shenanigans with Imperial Service clauses and 1st, 2nd and 3rd Line Battalions of Territorials he was surely right.

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Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Park Hall Camp. 

Photo by "The Popular Studio. Cross St. Oswestry"

Nice hedge!

RWF. M.G. LGjpg (2).jpg

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Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Machine Gun/Lewis Gun group. Believed to be 14th Battalion.

The man behind the Sergeant is making sure his star for distance judging is on show. 

RWF. M.G. LGjpg (3).jpg

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4 hours ago, high wood said:

Apologies for being pedantic but I am not sure what you mean by New Army Lincolnshire Regiment Lads. But I guess that it depends on the definition of New Army. They appear to Terriers and not from a Service Battalion, note the T shoulder titles. They are very probably from a second or third line Territorial battalion, so definitely War Raised but not strictly New Army in my understanding of the term.

I like this photo!

Even the little girl front & centre is wearing a makeshift uniform on & wearing putties to boot!

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Llandeilo Bridge was completed in 1848 and was the third largest in the kingdom at the time with a span of nearly 150 feet and built principally of black marble.

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On 31/08/2021 at 15:30, GWF1967 said:

Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Park Hall Camp. 

Photo by "The Popular Studio. Cross St. Oswestry"

Nice hedge!

RWF. M.G. LGjpg (2).jpg

 

That's a great group photo.  Any idea which battalion it is?  One of my great-great uncles was in the 9th RWF and was wounded at the Battle of the Somme on 2 July 1916.  I don't have any photos of him so I keep hoping a group shot like this of his battalion may turn up one day.  I still wouldn't be able to identify him but at least I'd know he was in there somewhere.  :)

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4 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

 

That's a great group photo.  Any idea which battalion it is?  One of my great-great uncles was in the 9th RWF and was wounded at the Battle of the Somme on 2 July 1916.  I don't have any photos of him so I keep hoping a group shot like this of his battalion may turn up one day.  I still wouldn't be able to identify him but at least I'd know he was in there somewhere.  :)

The only RWF battalion that I can trace as being recorded at Park Hall Camp was the 3rd (Reserve) Garrison Battalion, which arrived at Oswestry in June 1917 and stayed throughout the Summer until November, when it deployed to Ireland (Cork and then Crosshaven) until the end of the war.  @Hywynmight be able to confirm.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

The only RWF battalion that I can trace as being recorded at Park Hall Camp was the 3rd (Reserve) Garrison Battalion, which arrived at Oswestry in June 1917 and stayed throughout the Summer until November, when it deployed to Ireland (Cork and then Crosshaven) until the end of the war.  @Hywynmight be able to confirm.

Thanks Frogsmile.  It was worth asking anyway.

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11 minutes ago, Buffnut453 said:

Thanks Frogsmile.  It was worth asking anyway.

Yes, I agree and was surprised there weren’t more.  The RWF had quite a long, albeit indirect association with Park Hall camp that continued up until its closure.

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The 3rd line Territorial Reserves were at Oswestry for a while.

Not many shoulder badges to study but is the bottom left man showing Territorial shoulder badge?  Also are some of them displaying Imperial Service badge?

3/4th, 3/5th, 3/6th and 3/7th Battalions
Formed in Wrexham, Flint, Carnarvon and Newtown in March, May (3/6th) and June (3/7th) 1915 respectively.
8 April 1916 : became 4th – 7th Reserve Battalions.
1 September 1916 : 4th absorbed the 5th, 6th and 7th Bns, in the Welsh Reserve Brigade at Oswestry. Moved in March 1918 to Kinmel (Rhyl) and in July 1918 to Herne Bay in Kent.

 

edit: I was looking at the Lewis Gunners photo. Looking again and I see that they are thought to be 14th Bn. Are the photos connected?

 

Edited by Hywyn
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38 minutes ago, Hywyn said:

The 3rd line Territorial Reserves were at Oswestry for a while.

Not many shoulder badges to study but is the bottom left man showing Territorial shoulder badge?  Also are some of them displaying Imperial Service badge?

3/4th, 3/5th, 3/6th and 3/7th Battalions
Formed in Wrexham, Flint, Carnarvon and Newtown in March, May (3/6th) and June (3/7th) 1915 respectively.
8 April 1916 : became 4th – 7th Reserve Battalions.
1 September 1916 : 4th absorbed the 5th, 6th and 7th Bns, in the Welsh Reserve Brigade at Oswestry. Moved in March 1918 to Kinmel (Rhyl) and in July 1918 to Herne Bay in Kent.

 

edit: I was looking at the Lewis Gunners photo. Looking again and I see that they are thought to be 14th Bn. Are the photos connected?

 

Thanks Hywyn, I missed that reference to the TF Welsh Reserve Brigade…kicks himself ruefully…

Edited by FROGSMILE
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10 hours ago, Buffnut453 said:

 Any idea which battalion it is?  

Sorry, no details recorded.

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26 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Sorry, no details recorded.

Hywyn made an excellent spot of an Imperial Service tablet being worn by a man on the far left second row of the Machine Gunners group that confirms that unit as Territorials.  If the two photos are connected it implies that they show the Reserve Welsh Brigade that he mentioned.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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46 minutes ago, Hywyn said:

The 3rd line Territorial Reserves were at Oswestry for a while.

Not many shoulder badges to study but is the bottom left man showing Territorial shoulder badge?  Also are some of them displaying Imperial Service badge?

 

edit: I was looking at the Lewis Gunners photo. Looking again and I see that they are thought to be 14th Bn. Are the photos connected?

 

Thank you for the added information. There are quite a few 3 tier shoulder titles on show. I can't find any Imperial Service Badges in the group.

The seller acquired the MG/LG group photo with a couple of documents from the 14th Battalion reunion at Llandinham in 1937, hence the tentative identification. The Park Hall group came from the same seller, but no link was suggested. 

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3 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Thank you for the added information. There are quite a few 3 tier shoulder titles on show. I can't find any Imperial Service Badges in the group.

The seller acquired the MG/LG group photo with a couple of documents from the 14th Battalion reunion at Llandinham in 1937, hence the tentative identification. The Park Hall group came from the same seller, but no link was suggested. 

He was referring to the second photo showing the machine gunners.  There is another with the Imperial Service tablet far right of rear row.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Hywyn made an excellent spot of an Imperial Service tablet being worn by a man on the far left second row of the Lewis Gunners that confirms the unit as Territorials.  If the two photos are connected it implies that they show the Reserve Welsh Brigade that he mentioned.

Apologies, crossed wires. I assumed Hywyn was referring to the Park Hall card.

I hadn't spotted the Imperial Service tablet in the MG group. 

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9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

He was referring to the second photo showing the machine gunners.  There is another with the Imperial Service tablet far right of rear row.

I'd just found him, with the help of a loupe.

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5 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Apologies, crossed wires. I assumed Hywyn was referring to the Park Hall card.

I hadn't spotted the Imperial Service tablet in the MG group. 

Yes I confused the two at first until I scanned both photos for the tablet.  In the MG photo I see two, one far left second row (spotted by Hywyn) and the other far right rear row.  It’s a pity we don’t know for sure if both of the photos are linked with Oswestry.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Just now, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I confused the two at first until I scanned both photos for the tablet.  In the MG photo I see two, one far left second row and the other far right rear row.

Correct.

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3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 It’s a pity we don’t know for sure if both of the photos are linked with Oswestry.

I messaged the seller. Both postcards came from a Caernarfon junk shop, with two items relating to the 14th Battalion reunion (1937), and a booklet related to the award of Honoury Freedom of the Borough of Caernarfon  to the 6th Battalion (1946).

 

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2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

I messaged the seller. Both postcards came from a Caernarfon junk shop, with two items relating to the 14th Battalion reunion (1937), and a booklet related to the award of Honoury Freedom of the Borough of Caernarfon  to the 6th Battalion (1946).

 

Thank you that helps I think.  The MG group seem likely to be 6th RWF then given the Imperial Service Tablets, and as far as we can tell the large group at Oswestry either, 3rd (Reserve) Garrison Bn, or the TF Welsh Reserve Brigade.  There doesn’t appear to be a 14th Bn connection.

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