Postcards

[GWF1967]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

Interesting to see that he is wearing the "Brace Attachments" on his 1914 Pattern belt, but folded back inside the belt to be out of the way. They were supposed to be for "unarmed units", so are mostly seen worn by RAMC members:

Pattern 1914 Belts Braces and Straps (karkeeweb.com)

 

 

Thank you. 

I appreciate the observation of small details, by those who know the kit.

[GWF1967]

Royal Scots fusiliers. 

[FROGSMILE]

55 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Scots fusiliers. 

Those in kilts must be pipers.  The RSF were otherwise not a kilted regiment.

[GWF1967]

23 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Those in kilts must be pipers.  The RSF were otherwise not a kilted regiment.

Many thanks. As above. 

On 03/10/2021 at 18:21, GWF1967 said:

I appreciate the observation of small details, by those who know the kit.

 

[gordon92]

On 03/10/2021 at 18:34, GWF1967 said:

Royal Scots fusiliers. 

Rather unusual, but not unprecedented, for a piper to be wearing a diced glengarry  Almost certainly not a regular battalion.

[Ron Abbott]

5 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Rather unusual, but not unprecedented, for a piper to be wearing a diced glengarry  Almost certainly not a regular battalion.

No.  Also note the regular RSF cap badge rather than one of the unique cap badges worn by pipers of the 1st and 2nd battalions (each battalion having a different pipers cap badge). 

[FROGSMILE]

Yes I imagine that they’re probably from a war-raised Service Battalion.

[gordon92]

13 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

No.  Also note the regular RSF cap badge rather than one of the unique cap badges worn by pipers of the 1st and 2nd battalions (each battalion having a different pipers cap badge). 

The man in the center appears to be wearing the Star version of the piper cap badge.

[Ron Abbott]

1 hour ago, gordon92 said:

The man in the center appears to be wearing the Star version of the piper cap badge.

Yes, I agree, he may be wearing something different, although not sure if that is just because of the quality of the photo. 

But star version? I'm not quite sure what badge you are referring to. 

The 1st and 2nd battalions did wear different cap badges but I wouldn't describe either as 'star version' or of a typical regimental star design.

One resembled what today would be described as a sort of 'clan cap badge' and the other was of St Andrew and the cross in a round band surrounded by a wreath with the grenade and flash on the very top. 

Certainly nothing like the HLI star that was subsequently worn by the pipers of the RHF many years later.     

[FROGSMILE]

13 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Yes, I agree, he may be wearing something different, although not sure if that is just because of the quality of the photo. 

But star version? I'm not quite sure what badge you are referring to. 

The 1st and 2nd battalions did wear different cap badges but I wouldn't describe either as 'star version' or of a typical regimental star design.

One resembled what today would be described as a sort of 'clan cap badge' and the other was of St Andrew and the cross in a round band surrounded by a wreath with the grenade and flash on the very top. 

Certainly nothing like the HLI star that was subsequently worn by the pipers of the RHF many years later.     

Yes, I agree, I think Gordon92 might be thinking of the HLI.  If the RSF were brigaded with other regiment’s the central soldier might be from the Royal Scots. 

 

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

33 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Yes, I agree, he may be wearing something different, although not sure if that is just because of the quality of the photo. 

But star version? I'm not quite sure what badge you are referring to. 

The 1st and 2nd battalions did wear different cap badges but I wouldn't describe either as 'star version' or of a typical regimental star design.

One resembled what today would be described as a sort of 'clan cap badge' and the other was of St Andrew and the cross in a round band surrounded by a wreath with the grenade and flash on the very top. 

Certainly nothing like the HLI star that was subsequently worn by the pipers of the RHF many years later.     

 

20 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, I agree, I think Gordon92 might be thinking of the HLI.  If the RSF were brigaded with other regiment’s the central soldier might be from the Royal Scots. 

 

I was mistakenly thinking of the badge worn by pipers of the Royal Highland Fusiliers.

[FROGSMILE]

21 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

 

I was mistakenly thinking of the badge worn by pipers of the Royal Highland Fusiliers.

Yes I understand.

[GWF1967]

 Indian Army Unattached List. 

Thanks to @FROGSMILEfor the identification.

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 Indian Army Unattached List. 

Thanks to @FROGSMILEfor the identification.

That’s an absolutely cracking photo and exceedingly rare.  He’s also wearing the Indian establishment, other ranks pattern Sam Browne belt, braces, and brace extensions made in the government leather manufactory at Kanpur (Cawnpore).  The braces could also be worn as a single cross belt and were especially popular with other ranks of mounted British units (cavalry and artillery) as well as British SNCOs on the Indian Unattached List in specialised service support and administrative roles.  The brace supported the weight of arms suspended on the belt such as swords, revolvers, and ammunition pouches. It was only in India that British other ranks were permitted to wear this style of belt because of its association with officers dress only at home.

Edited 7 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[CorporalPunishment]

On 05/10/2021 at 22:19, Ron Abbott said:

Yes, I agree, he may be wearing something different, although not sure if that is just because of the quality of the photo. 

But star version? I'm not quite sure what badge you are referring to. 

The 1st and 2nd battalions did wear different cap badges but I wouldn't describe either as 'star version' or of a typical regimental star design.

One resembled what today would be described as a sort of 'clan cap badge' and the other was of St Andrew and the cross in a round band surrounded by a wreath with the grenade and flash on the very top. 

Certainly nothing like the HLI star that was subsequently worn by the pipers of the RHF many years later.     

1st Battalion pipers did wear a badge that was star-shaped like that of the HLI/Royal Scots/Scots Guards.   Pete.

[Ron Abbott]

6 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

1st Battalion pipers did wear a badge that was star-shaped like that of the HLI/Royal Scots/Scots Guards.   Pete.

Do you have an example of one?

I would be interested to see one as I have not come across it before.....especially if in a photo of a piper wearing one. 

The ones in the photos posted above by Frogsmile are the ones which are well documented and normally seen in photos from the period.   

Edited 7 October , 2021 by Ron Abbott

[CorporalPunishment]

4 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Do you have an example of one?

I would be interested to see one as I have not come across it before.

The ones in the photos posted above by Frogsmile are the ones which are well documented and normally seen in photos from the period.   

Sorry, no I don't. I used to have one in my badge collecting days but that was a long time ago.   Pete.

[Ron Abbott]

1 minute ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Sorry, no I don't. I used to have one in my badge collecting days but that was a long time ago.   Pete.

In fact, I have heard it mentioned elsewhere before as well but I have never actually seen one either on its own nor in a photo on a piper's glengarry.  Do you know what specific period they were worn?  Interesting.  

[Ron Abbott]

Indeed there is such a badge on the following webpage which mentions it being an 1 RSF pipers badge, although the mention of it being worn on the feather bonnet is presumably an error because they didn't wear them.

 

RSF Piper's Badge? 

 

And another -

 

There are certainly photos of 1 RSF pipers wearing the well known cap badge (as posted by Frogsmile above) both before and during WW1, so I wonder when exactly they wore the star badge.  And what the background was.  

You learn something new every day on this forum!  Thanks/Ron

 

 

Edited 7 October , 2021 by Ron Abbott

[CorporalPunishment]

12 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Indeed there is such a badge on the following webpage which mentions it being an 1 RSF pipers badge, although the mention of it being worn on the feather bonnet is presumably an error because they didn't wear them.

 

RSF Piper's Badge? 

 

And another -

 

There are certainly photos of 1 RSF pipers wearing the well known cap badge (as posted by Frogsmile above) both before and during WW1, so I wonder when exactly they wore the star badge.  And what the background was.  

You learn something new every day on this forum!  Thanks/Ron

 

 

I had the date of wear as 1881-1960 based on John Gaylor's book "Military Badge Collecting" but, like so much else in that book, there is some doubt regarding historical accuracy.     Pete.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Indeed there is such a badge on the following webpage which mentions it being an 1 RSF pipers badge, although the mention of it being worn on the feather bonnet is presumably an error because they didn't wear them.

 

RSF Piper's Badge? 

 

And another -

 

There are certainly photos of 1 RSF pipers wearing the well known cap badge (as posted by Frogsmile above) both before and during WW1, so I wonder when exactly they wore the star badge.  And what the background was.  

You learn something new every day on this forum!  Thanks/Ron

 

 

Thank you Ron, I’d completely forgotten about that badge, and it might well be the one, as the photo Mike commented on does have the look around the edges of a star shape.  Forum members @Cockjockand @WilliamRevhave special knowledge of the RSF and might be able to comment.  There’s also sometimes confusion between the piper’s baldrick badges worn at various times and the glengarry badges.

Edited 7 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Ron Abbott]

2 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

I had the date of wear as 1881-1960 based on John Gaylor's book "Military Badge Collecting" but, like so much else in that book, there is some doubt regarding historical accuracy.     Pete.

Pete, if you have that book....does it also show this badge?  If so so what does it say about it because this is the design of badge that the pipers of the 1st Bn. RSF are normally seen wearing in photos both prior to (say c1900 onwards) and during WW1 -

 

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Pete, if you have that book....does it also show this badge?  If so so what does it say about it because this is the design of badge that the pipers of the 1st Bn. RSF are normally seen wearing in photos both prior to (say c1900 onwards) and during WW1 -

 

All three of these photos seem to show the star badge Ron?  In the uppermost image it also appears on the baldrick, so hence my comment earlier about confusion.

We’re definitely getting old, it was discussed previously here: 

 

Edited 7 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[CorporalPunishment]

59 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Pete, if you have that book....does it also show this badge?  If so so what does it say about it because this is the design of badge that the pipers of the 1st Bn. RSF are normally seen wearing in photos both prior to (say c1900 onwards) and during WW1 -

 

Ron, he makes no mention of that pattern in the book at all.     Pete.

[gordon92]

9 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Indeed there is such a badge on the following webpage which mentions it being an 1 RSF pipers badge, although the mention of it being worn on the feather bonnet is presumably an error because they didn't wear them.

 

RSF Piper's Badge? 

 

And another -

 

There are certainly photos of 1 RSF pipers wearing the well known cap badge (as posted by Frogsmile above) both before and during WW1, so I wonder when exactly they wore the star badge.  And what the background was.  

You learn something new every day on this forum!  Thanks/Ron

 

 

In executing a Google search I also found the image below of the RSF Star badge. The caption read "Cox 1482. Gaylor 26. Pipers badge. 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers. two parts. (1800 kr) 67 mm." I do not have Gaylor, but in the Cox guide "Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-18," this badge is indeed listed as item #1482.  This makes sense as the origin of the RHF pipers glengarry badge.