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Remembered Today:

Postcards


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2 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Pete, if you have that book....does it also show this badge?  If so so what does it say about it because this is the design of badge that the pipers of the 1st Bn. RSF are normally seen wearing in photos both prior to (say c1900 onwards) and during WW1 -

 

All three of these photos seem to show the star badge Ron?  In the uppermost image it also appears on the baldrick, so hence my comment earlier about confusion.

We’re definitely getting old, it was discussed previously here: 

 

976ACA97-6FE9-4C97-82C5-FF58264F408F.jpeg

BBA120D1-B8B4-47AB-AF80-8B6E8609875D.jpeg

2B317E63-97A3-4AA2-AB0F-C8E459B319E0.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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59 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

Pete, if you have that book....does it also show this badge?  If so so what does it say about it because this is the design of badge that the pipers of the 1st Bn. RSF are normally seen wearing in photos both prior to (say c1900 onwards) and during WW1 -

 

21st Royal Scots Fusiliers Cap Badge White Metal 2 Lugs ANTIQUE Original

Ron, he makes no mention of that pattern in the book at all.     Pete.

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9 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Indeed there is such a badge on the following webpage which mentions it being an 1 RSF pipers badge, although the mention of it being worn on the feather bonnet is presumably an error because they didn't wear them.

 

RSF Piper's Badge? 

 

And another -

BRITISH ARMY SCOTTISH REGIMENTS HAT BADGES (18)

 

There are certainly photos of 1 RSF pipers wearing the well known cap badge (as posted by Frogsmile above) both before and during WW1, so I wonder when exactly they wore the star badge.  And what the background was.  

You learn something new every day on this forum!  Thanks/Ron

 

 

In executing a Google search I also found the image below of the RSF Star badge. The caption read "Cox 1482. Gaylor 26. Pipers badge. 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers. two parts. (1800 kr) 67 mm." I do not have Gaylor, but in the Cox guide "Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-18," this badge is indeed listed as item #1482.  This makes sense as the origin of the RHF pipers glengarry badge.

Cox-1482.-Gaylor-26.-Pipers-badge.-1st-Royal-Scots-Fusiliers.-two-parts.-1800-kr-67-mm..JPG.76d30c8c9bb37c1f13d8c5003438300c.JPG

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7 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

In executing a Google search I also found the image below of the RSF Star badge. The caption read "Cox 1482. Gaylor 26. Pipers badge. 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers. two parts. (1800 kr) 67 mm." I do not have Gaylor, but in the Cox guide "Military Badges of the British Empire 1914-18," this badge is indeed listed as item #1482.  This makes sense as the origin of the RHF pipers glengarry badge.

Yes I agree that it’s almost certainly the origin of the HLI badge.  You omitted to follow the thread from the previous page, where that image has already been posted along with two more. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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21 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I agree that it’s almost certainly the origin of the HLI badge.  You omitted to follow the thread from the previous page, where that image has already been posted along with two more. 

Yes, I did miss those posts.  Apparently, the 1st Battalion's Star badge survived the elimination of 2nd Battalions in 1948.

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6 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Yes, I did miss those posts.  Apparently, the 1st Battalion's Star badge survived the elimination of 2nd Battalions in 1948.

Yes I’m assuming that when the 2nd Battalion was stood down (effectively placed in suspended animation) that the 1st Battalion’s preferred pattern became the standard.  Quite what the TF and war service only units did is no doubt an exercise in vagaries….

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Ammunition Column Camp.

Elliot & Thomas, Camp Depot, Hexham.

Div Amm. Col.jpg

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Hi

Just found I'd been notified as being an expert on the RSF.   However I did have dealings with the museum when "at work" and I hereby submit ALL the info i have garnered.

With ref to the Star badge the was also worn on the Pipers cross belt by the 1st Bn.   When the PoW [EVIIIR] was involved PoW Feather sprung up everywhere.  !Bn wore them over the star badge , 2Bn only wore the PoW Feathers and these were eventually worn by the RHF.

Note in the enlarged pic the PMj is wearing HLI pattn buckles.

A collector friend has the ornate waist plate [or a copy?]

Aitch

img20210818_15310092.png

img20210818_15320504.png

img20210818_15331348.png

img20210818_15340563.png

img20210818_15415848.png

img20210818_15430720.png

RSF pipers badge (2018_12_31 10_19_56 UTC).jpg

RSF Pipers Badge to 1877.jpg

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9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

All three of these photos seem to show the star badge Ron?  In the uppermost image it also appears on the baldrick, so hence my comment earlier about confusion.

We’re definitely getting old, it was discussed previously here: 

 

976ACA97-6FE9-4C97-82C5-FF58264F408F.jpeg

BBA120D1-B8B4-47AB-AF80-8B6E8609875D.jpeg

2B317E63-97A3-4AA2-AB0F-C8E459B319E0.jpeg

 

But if you look at the man in the second row, second rank........his cap badge appears to resemble the one with the St Andrews Cross and not the star shaped one.  Or is that just because it's not very clear?

That is also the case with this one dated from c1900 -

81fiFGF3nbL.jpg

 

Difficult to tell in this one-

http://www.schoolofpiping.com/photo_album/Old%20Bands%20%C2%A9/slides/royal-scots-fusiliers-1914.jpg

There are also other photos from the same preWW1 and WW1 period showing the St Andrews cross badges as I've seen them before.  So I wonder when they changed cap badge?  During WW1 perhaps?  But why?

As an aside, the piper nearest the camera in the 'South Africa, 1912' photo is believed to be a family ancestor of my own (Piper Adam Porteous).  By coincidence, my (late) godfather was also Pipe-Major of the 1st Bn. RSF between 1939 and 1944.  If only one could ask them......

 

 

  

 

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20 hours ago, Cockjock said:

Hi

Just found I'd been notified as being an expert on the RSF.   However I did have dealings with the museum when "at work" and I hereby submit ALL the info i have garnered.

With ref to the Star badge the was also worn on the Pipers cross belt by the 1st Bn.   When the PoW [EVIIIR] was involved PoW Feather sprung up everywhere.  !Bn wore them over the star badge , 2Bn only wore the PoW Feathers and these were eventually worn by the RHF.

Note in the enlarged pic the PMj is wearing HLI pattn buckles.

A collector friend has the ornate waist plate [or a copy?]

Aitch

Hello Aitch, thank you for replying so promptly and helpfully.  I remembered our communication previously regarding insignia of the RSF and so thought that you might be able to help.  The illustrations and text are interesting and useful, I'm a great fan of the late Lelia B Ryan and the recording of several aspects of insignia are down to her and her interest.  It's unusual that she sat in her well appointed residence in the US and yet spent so much of her time devoted to recording what she saw as beautifully crafted insignia of high quality and artistry.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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17 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

 

But if you look at the man in the second row, second rank........his cap badge appears to resemble the one with the St Andrews Cross and not the star shaped one.  Or is that just because it's not very clear?

That is also the case with this one dated from c1900 -

81fiFGF3nbL.jpg

 

Difficult to tell in this one-

http://www.schoolofpiping.com/photo_album/Old Bands ©/slides/royal-scots-fusiliers-1914.jpg

There are also other photos from the same preWW1 and WW1 period showing the St Andrews cross badges as I've seen them before.  So I wonder when they changed cap badge?  During WW1 perhaps?  But why?

As an aside, the piper nearest the camera in the 'South Africa, 1912' photo is believed to be a family ancestor of my own (Piper Adam Porteous).  By coincidence, my (late) godfather was also Pipe-Major of the 1st Bn. RSF between 1939 and 1944.  If only one could ask them......

 

 

  

 

The piper far left in second rank is I believe wearing the star shaped badge, it's just not the best of photos.  The other photo from the Victorian era and including the sergeant major of battalion (RSM) is I think the 2nd Battalion and so is wearing the alternate badge worn by that unit.

I agree it would be wonderful if we could speak to these long gone men but I'm fairly confident based on the images that we've seen at least.

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Ron

Not quite sure which pic you are referring to, however -  The Piper in the two man pic is wearing a star cap badge.

In my pic of the band I think c1925 [have to look it up] there is a mixture of 1st & 2nd pipers as can be seen from the top cross belt badges.  Also 2nd row 2nd man fr left has no badge so, either he has just joined or not had a badge because they'd run out of them.  It happens!

I 'll have a search in my files to see what other RSF bits are lurking.

 

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Hi

Found quite a lot that might be of interest.

The band pic is undated unfortunately.

Apart from that here is some other bits and bobs which are self explanatory -I hope!

H

RHF PMjs WBP.png

RSF PMjs cap.jpg

RSF XB Buckles.jpg

post-599-0-15433600-1340137383_thumb.jpg

2nd pattn pprs badge 1877-1881.jpg

RSF Cantle.png

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14 minutes ago, Cockjock said:

Hi

Found quite a lot that might be of interest.

The band pic is undated unfortunately.

Apart from that here is some other bits and bobs which are self explanatory -I hope!

H

RHF PMjs WBP.png

RSF PMjs cap.jpg

RSF XB Buckles.jpg

post-599-0-15433600-1340137383_thumb.jpg

2nd pattn pprs badge 1877-1881.jpg

RSF Cantle.png

Thank you for taking the time Aitch, all very interesting and useful.  These last few posts would sit well in a thread of their own, or perhaps moved to the earlier thread on RSF pipers linked above.  I’m not sure if @Michelle Youngwould recommend that or not, but I fear that with our shared enthusiasm we’re digressing from the long-standing and overarching postcard focus.

Can you tell me, is the star badge on the baldrick (cross-belt) of the same size and detail as that on the glengarry?

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Just Looked - Obviously not.

Top buckle is currently worn by PMj RHF and is a GVIR plate worn by RSF from then.                           2 PMjs cap Badge                                                                                                                                   3 Cross belt buckles c 1877                                                                                                                   4 1st Bn Piper showing buckles and sporran                                                                                           5 Pipers Cap badge 1877-1881                                                                                                             6 Cantle

I have some other info but these are in docs that need to be photo'd

H

Exactly the same Badge.  

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41 minutes ago, Cockjock said:

 

Exactly the same Badge.  

Thank you, understood, and worth bearing in mind for the future, as it's often assumed/misunderstood by the layman that a "piper's badge" is invariably only for headdress.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians)

"Bert"  Cairo 1918.

Welsh Reg. (2).jpg

Edited by GWF1967
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2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians)

"Bert"  Cairo 1918.

Welsh Reg. (2).jpg

That’s a super photo of two Leinster’s men including a signaller with armbands.  I wonder who Bert was.  Sadly by 1918 the Irish Regiments had been much denuded of men from the Emerald Isle due to battle casualties and numbers had had to be made up by replacements from Britain.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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"Ireland. Rifle Competition.  Pte. G. Hall".

Ireland. (2).jpg

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21 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Royal Engineers.

Royal Eng. (3).jpg

That is a formal inspection of the men in marching order.  Although we can’t see them the inspecting officers have reached the centre rank and therefore the front rank has been stood at ease (and easy) and the centre and rear ranks brought to attention.  It’s a very familiar scene.  I wonder what town it is.  They appear to be formed up (in ‘open order’, as is protocol for inspection) on the market square.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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20 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 I wonder what town it is.  They appear to be formed up (in ‘open order’, as is protocol for inspection) on the market square.

No further clues as to the location unfortunately.

 

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51st South Wales Borderers. C Coy. 11 Platoon. 

 

SWB (2).jpg

Edited by GWF1967
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