GY402 Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Maybe the 're-issuing' of rum indicates that a push is imminent? Hefty installment, Jules, great effort. For me and by the looks, the others, the striking part of this insert is that the conditions were truly dreadful. It makes me angry that such suffering occured to such brave men, whilst staff officers in the rear echelon would no doubt have been debating their 5 course fare and entertainment for the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 25 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Maybe the 're-issuing' of rum indicates that a push is imminent? Hefty installment, Jules, great effort. For me and by the looks, the others, the striking part of this insert is that the conditions were truly dreadful. It makes me angry that such suffering occured to such brave men, whilst staff officers in the rear echelon would no doubt have been debating their 5 course fare and entertainment for the evening. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi GY402 I just can't get over the fact that mud could come up over the top of a pair of waders, how on earth did they manage to move at all. Mind you when someone is sniping at you the inclination to move would be a lot stronger I guess. I think it is impossible for us to imagine what that must have been like. Hopefully there will never be the opportunity or the army of today to find out. My overriding thought is why did my grandfather never ever talk about any of this before he died, thank goodness he had the presence of mind to write down his thoughts for us all to read through the medium of this diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 I read somewhere recently a(Passchendaele) bout an officer who prodded men in the backs of the legs to make them get up out of the mud. He wasn't being evil - the men were exhausted wading through thigh deep mud, and some of them just fell face first in the mud and drowned, so he took action to rouse them. I can imagine falling exhausted like that - it must have been hell. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 25 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2005 57th Instalment Tuesday November 7th Slept till 8 o/c usual tour of duty. The other coys came up tonight and carried on with the job we started last night. Lt Hickson wounded and three other casualties. Wednesday November 8th Usual routine. The men are having a rotten time sitting and laying in mud. Being relieved by 10th battalion tonight. Relief arrived about 7.30 and platoons proceeded independently to Brigade HQ where guides were picked up and we were taken to a sunken road. The accommodation consisted of dug outs full of water and mud up to your knees. The diggers made the best of it. Bob Miles offered a 2 set --- made a bit of cover. When we had nearly finished it rained like fury and so we just had a stiff tot of rum and turned in and slept through it, laying in about 2 feet of water. This road gets its share of strafing. Thursday November 9th We had a man killed here today and my senior Corporal had his leg blown off by a 77mm shell. On fatigue 8 o/c. Went to brigade HQ and found we were not wanted. The men are absolutely dead beat now and the sick parades are very heavy. A lot of trench feet. Miles and I went over to Flers where some of the lads have made a home for themselves in an old cellar. A wash a hot feed and a rest all complete but a dangerous spot. Back about 6 o/c and camped in Brigade HQ. 23 men sick from B company today and my platoon Sgt down with trench feet. Friday November 10th Breakfast 8.30. Our AA guns brought down a Laube? This morning in our lines. Being relieved tonight by the 6th Bde . More sickness today. Relief arrived about 6 o/c and we proceeded to Bernafay Nova? There about 9 o/c. Had a wash and change of clothes and turned with Scotts in rear, he having gone away sick. Slept like a top in a hell bent with 2 other officers. Over to you Frev to translate the last two sentences Regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Wednesday November 8th Usual routine. The men are having a rotten time sitting and laying in mud. Being relieved by 10th battalion tonight. Relief arrived about 7.30 and platoons proceeded independently to Brigade HQ where guides were picked up and we were taken to a sunken road. The accommodation consisted of dug outs full of water and mud up to your knees. The diggers made the best of it. Bob Miles offered a 2 set --- made a bit of cover. When we had nearly finished it rained like fury and so we just had a stiff tot of rum and turned in and slept through it, laying in about 2 feet of water. This road gets its share of strafing. I see he's more worried by the water than the strafing - i think I understand that. There are photos of trench foot here - not for the faint hearted: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWfoot.jpg Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 25 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Hi Marina Looks like it would have been very painful and probably only relieved through amputation? Regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 It makes me angry that such suffering occured to such brave men, whilst staff officers in the rear echelon would no doubt have been debating their 5 course fare and entertainment for the evening. You need to be a little careful with this interpretation. I guess you are not referring to the officers who were close up to the front, for example up to brigade and even division level. They often shared the same conditions. Lower-ranking officers were more likely to be killed than Other Ranks. For the infantry, the rotation of units out of the line was relatively frequent. It was the gunners and their officers who really suffered in some of the longer campaigns, such as Third Ypres. If you mean Staff Officers who worked in army HQs or GHQ, then yes they were in a somewhat better position. As the war went on, they became more exposed to long range artillery and, in the case of GHQ, bombing raids. Casualties were rare. But if you read books like 'GHQ: Montreuil' by Sir Frank Fox and 'French Headquarters' by Jean de Pierrefeu, you realise that the Staff Officers worked extremely long hours, with very little time off and no opportunities for fraternising. They were responsible for ensuring that the millions of troops and other support staff were adequately fed, transported, treated medically, etc, etc. It was no mean feat. Someone had to do it and by-and-large they did a very good job, all things considered. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 A browse through the book by Graham Maddocks and another (I forget whom) which is called "Bloody Red Tabs" will serve to underline how many senior officers were killed, many of them in the lines or nearby rather than back at safer HQ billets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Our AA guns brought down a Laube? Julian This is probably 'Taube'. It was the name of an early German aircraft. A very beautiful design, as you can see here http://www.wwiaviation.com/german1914.shtml The Aussies continued to use the term for any German aircraft, though the Taube was still used into 1916. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 One of CRW Nevinsons more famous pictures is called "A Taube", but shows a wounded or dead child lying in the gutter; the title being a "double-entendre" on the word as it surely reflects the result of an aerial attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Wednesday November 8th There are photos of trench foot here - not for the faint hearted: Marina There is some more information in this thread too: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...1&st=&p=entry Further threads can be checked out by typing 'trench foot' in the Search facility for the Other forum. Cheers Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 25 April , 2005 Share Posted 25 April , 2005 Marina There is some more information in this thread too: Thanks, Robert. That whale oil sounds VILE and seems to have smelled worse. A relief to see that death from trench foot wasn't THAT common and that it was in fact treatable. I think the staff officers do get a bad press. From what I've read, they were always buzzing about round the lines, coordinating, always busy, inundated with requests form higher up and lower down. It can't have been easy. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frev Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Friday November 10th Breakfast 8.30. Our AA guns brought down a Laube? This morning in our lines. Being relieved tonight by the 6th Bde . More sickness today. Relief arrived about 6 o/c and we proceeded to Bernafay Nova? There about 9 o/c. Had a wash and change of clothes and turned with Scotts in rear, he having gone away sick. Slept like a top in a hell bent with 2 other officers. Over to you Frev to translate the last two sentences Regards Julian Thanks Jules - talk about pressure - I've had my thinking cap on - but no luck I'm afraid. [if only I could see the original!!!!] The only things I can think of are: .... turned with Scotts in rear, ...... ? he did something with Scotty's gear (he having gone away sick) and hell bent. ? some sort of bed Pity Robert beat me to the Taube - I knew that one! Being relieved tonight by the 6th Bde - they were actually relieved by the 6th Bn Bernafay Nova? - Could it be Bernafay Wood. Nov 7th Lt Hickson wounded and three other casualties. [from 'Cobbers in Khaki'] - Cpt Percy Lay's account of what happened: "C Company got the worst of this [shelling]. Lieutenant Hickson had his platoon out in a forward position when he got wounded and I was sent out to take charge. I was in about as tough a little corner as any would wish to be. I was to get the men back. They were a party of 15 digging in No Man's Land when a sniper got on to them and wounded the Lieutenant and three men. But they were only 15 yards from Fritz's trenches and the clouds cleared away leaving it as bright as day. I had a hell of a job getting them back. I got the officer and the wounded men into their trench alright and also six of the other men but the other five had to stay out in shell holes. The sniper got onto the second lot and did some pretty good shooting wounding the two men in front of me and killing the man behind me. He managed to get three holes through my coat. He got three more of the remainder and that left me in a nice pickle. I had to gather all the wounded in a shell hole and then go and see if I could get some help but as all the rest had gone except Bert Hall it was up to me. I had to go out and carry them in on my shoulders and just managed to get them safely in the trench when they spotted me and opened up on us again. I'd got the first three in alright but he'd got on to us when I was fetching the second party in, killing one and wounding the other two. I don't know how he missed me as he was only 30 yards away. Out of the 15 of us 13 got killed or wounded. The next question was how to get them all back. I decided to take another risk. I got them all back and luck was with me as he did not fire until I had got the last man in." Makes it easy to see why he was the most decorated soldier in the 8th Battalion doesn't it! Cheers, Frev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 26 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Julian This is probably 'Taube'. It was the name of an early German aircraft. A very beautiful design, as you can see here http://www.wwiaviation.com/german1914.shtml The Aussies continued to use the term for any German aircraft, though the Taube was still used into 1916. Robert <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Robert Many thanks for your interpretation of John's writing. What an ungainly looking aircraft the Taube was and with a top speed of only 60 mph too. Still for a recce aircraft I guess speed was not important really. Must have made them easy targets for AA guns on the ground? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Pity Robert beat me to the Taube - I knew that one! No worries Frev. Chance will come around again Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Still for a recce aircraft I guess speed was not important really. Must have made them easy targets for AA guns on the ground? Julian Speed was not important until anti-reconnaisance aircraft took to the skies. For aerial photographs, the key was to fly straight and level. Even so, it seems that AA guns mostly put flyers off rather than bring them down. There are certainly accounts of Taubes being bought down with rifle fire in the early months of the war. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 26 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2005 [if only I could see the original!!!!] The only things I can think of are: .... turned with Scotts in rear, ...... ? he did something with Scotty's gear (he having gone away sick) and hell bent. Bell tent ? some sort of bed Pity Robert beat me to the Taube - I knew that one! Being relieved tonight by the 6th Bde - they were actually relieved by the 6th Bn Bernafay Nova? - Could it be Bernafay Wood. Yes Cheers, Frev. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi frev You shall get to see the original my friend, I shall get a scanner if it kills me as I have lots of pictures I want to show you and the other pals I have been very pleased to make acquaintance with these past months. The Nova was actually Wood as you surmised and the Bde was battalion. The hell bent was actually "bell tent". Thanks for helping me to get the context and spelling correct. Regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 26 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Evening All 58th Instalment Saturday November 11th Awoke 9 o/c. Breakfast. Cleaned up. Warned at 2.30 to take party of 50 men on fatigue, 200 men in the whole party under Captain Kirby. Went to Brigade HQ left equipment there and then carried duckboards up to Bull R- dump. A rotten journey. Got back at camp at 9 o/c very tired. Sunday November 12th Relieved and proceeded to Pomieres redoubt. Monday November 13th Left camp 9 o/c and proceeded to Fricourt camp. Good nissen huts once again. Tuesday November 14th Left camp 9 o/c marched via Becordel? Meaultes? where a battalion of Irish Guards were billeted. They paid compliments to the full and we were rather glad when we got out of the town, but they are fine soldiers. We then went through T-ll- sur Forbe and Mericourt to Ribemont where we billeted. Not a bad place. Turned in at 9 o/c after having reconnoitred a big EF canteen where there is a special place for officers. Sorry there is not much tonight as I had difficulty reading it and debated for a long time before I decided what soem words actually were. Over to you Frev for the place names. Night all. Regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Hi frev The hell bent was actually "bell tent". Thanks for helping me to get the context and spelling correct. Inspired, isn't she, Jules? Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Evening All 58th Instalment Saturday November 11th Awoke 9 o/c. Breakfast. Cleaned up. Warned at 2.30 to take party of 50 men on fatigue, 200 men in the whole party under Captain Kirby. Went to Brigade HQ left equipment there and then carried duckboards up to Bull R- dump. A rotten journey. Got back at camp at 9 o/c very tired. Sunday November 12th Relieved and proceeded to Pomieres redoubt. Monday November 13th Left camp 9 o/c and proceeded to Fricourt camp. Good nissen huts once again. Tuesday November 14th Left camp 9 o/c marched via Becordel? Meaultes? where a battalion of Irish Guards were billeted. We then went through T-ll- sur Forbe and Mericourt to Ribemont where we billeted. Not a bad place. Turned in at 9 o/c after having reconnoitred a big EF canteen where there is a special place for officers. So much hard labour and marching about! Still, I suppose it beats getting strafed. Hope he gets time to eat in that fine canteen! Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 26 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Hi Marina I don't mean to be picky but you need to put at the end of any quoted text from another pal, otherwise you cannot make out who has said what. Cheers Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pompeyrodney Posted 26 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Inspired, isn't she, Jules? Marina <{POST_SNAPBACK}> She sure is Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 Hi Marina I don't mean to be picky but you need to put at the end of any quoted text from another pal, otherwise you cannot make out who has said what. Cheers Julian <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You and me, too, Marina. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You and me, too, Marina. Robbie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just testing! Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 26 April , 2005 Share Posted 26 April , 2005 (edited) How do you get the blue box with the quote marks in the corner? Now that I've mastered the edit button, I feel I'm ready for something more advanced... Marina Edited 26 April , 2005 by marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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