8th Battalion AIF Diary Found !

[marina]

Anyone know what the Sak's actory was?

Was it perhaps Scotty who fell over the line?

Marina

[egbert]

Julian, keep on, I am always there -lurking for the next installment

[Andrew P]

I'm presuming the October 19th referendum voting was for the conscription debate.

[frev]

Ozzie

The 5.9 was a substantial shell.  It was fired by a heavy gun.  If somebody tripped it, the only thing left would be the arm.  So I think the arm will have been hit by the shell flying past before it landed.

Hope that helps.

Robert

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robert

Thanks for that explanation - it had me wondering too - god, if they don't get you one way, they get you another!

Anyone know what the Sak's actory was?

Was it perhaps Scotty who fell over the line?

Marina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marina - I'd agree with you about Scotty - and no idea on the Saks? factory of Anxions? either.

Only thing I can help with Jules is St Riquet? - St Riquier

Could tomorrow's gripping instalment have anything to do with the fire?

Frev.

[GY402]

Keep plugging away Jules. Apologies for not replying lately or offering support, on a stretch of unsociable shifts and what I sometimes want to say has been said. First thread (and site) I look for when online. Dread to think what we'll do when the diary ends in 3 months. Go outside in the sunshine, possibly!

[ianw]

Just like Paul Reed, I have been reading this thread with interest. Most appreciated.

I will be travelling on many of the routes described this weekend and will think of his travails and efforts.

Thanks again for posting the entries

[pompeyrodney]

Keep plugging away Jules. Apologies for not replying lately or offering support, on a stretch of unsociable shifts and what I sometimes want to say has been said. First thread (and site) I look for when online. Dread to think what we'll do when the diary ends in 3 months. Go outside in the sunshine, possibly!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HI GY402

Thanks for your thoughts and don't worry as I sure will keep plugging away. I sure sympathise with the shifts by the way. I also don't know what I will do when the diary finishes, I still can't believe there are nomore books to take it to the end of the war but I have not given up searching for it.

Regards

Julian

[pompeyrodney]

I waited up till 3.30am for the next installment but eventually had to go to bed! Lucky I have a day off today.

Washing parade, did the army do everything in parades, can someone please explain this?

A dud 5.9 taking of an arm. Would this be because it didn't go off the first time and somebody tripped it? Any help?

Jules, you are marked top of my must see posts and I like to see it stay there, so as Marina said

'wondering why he wastes time sleeping and breathing...He has to know we CARE. Or he won't be able to carry on!'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Ozzie but if I have not posted a reply before 10pm GMT then I shall not be posting till the next evening. You get your beauty sleep my ffriend

Julian

[pompeyrodney]

54th Instalment

Sunday October 22nd

We knew ask the whereabouts of the battalion when we got to St Riquet was that they were at Faucourt. No map and no idea where Faucourt was. Pitch dark. We moped about for a long while and at 4 o/c after scrutinising sign posts the aid of torches around at the village not a soul being awake and me having no idea of where the boys billets were. At last we found them and got the men settled having marched FR? Scotty and I by this time felt like bed ourselves and made our way to BHQ. Discovered the adjutants bedroom and he being in a comfortable bed we climbed into his valise on the floor. He and his bed mate Tas Mummery were rather surprised to find us there in the morning. Got a dress tunic and a pair of –ren—boots out ofT as. We then discovered our allocated billet which was not bad. Church parade in afternoon. About 20 men and 5 officers present. Turned in early.

Monday October 23rd

About midnight we were awakened by the ringing of bells, beating of drums and shouting of excited French people. The billet occupied by the scout caught fire and was burned down. The French fire engine comprised of a big barrel of water on wheels with pumping attachments and hose foiled the same the building? Awakened by Jock at 7 o/c and told we were to move out at 8 o/c. Dickens of a rush the company commander having signed for orders in the middle of the night while half asleep and forgotten all about them. No breakfast. Just got away in time. Marched onto the main Abeville Amiens road and 2 brigades of us got onto a train of 200 French motor vehicles each holding 30 men. Started of at 1 o/c and arrived at 2 k’s outside Dernancourt at 8 o/c. Marched to rotten billets and settled down for the night. Covered about 37 miles by motor.

Tuesday October 24th

To move off to a reserve camp close to the line at 12.30. Paraded outside billets at 10.30 and waited there in the rain till 2 o/c when the brigade moved off in order of battalions. The traffic on the road up towards the line is terrific and the roads are in a very sloppy condition although they are metalled thank goodness. A lot of German prisoners working on the roads. Arrived at a camp between Mammetz? and Frecoourt? in good Nissen huts (built in sections and having a semi-circular appearance when completed) about 6 o/c. We are very lucky to have such good quarters, the other battalions have only dug outs.

Keep reading folks

Goodnight or good morning all deopending on residing hemisphere

Regards

Julian

[marina]

54th Instalment

Sunday October 22nd

. Discovered the adjutants bedroom and he being in a comfortable bed we climbed into his valise on the floor. He and his bed mate Tas Mummery were rather surprised to find us there in the morning.

Have been hovering, waiting for the ten o'clock deadline!

That must have been some size of valise - would it have been a big steamer trunk or something like that? Surely they couldn't lug such HUGE luggage about at the Front?

The rotten billets must have been REALLY rotten if they were bad compared to a night in a valise!

Night everybody!

Marina

[frev]

54th Instalment

Sunday October 22nd

. Discovered the adjutants bedroom and he being in a comfortable bed we climbed into his valise on the floor. He and his bed mate Tas Mummery were rather surprised to find us there in the morning.

Have been hovering, waiting for the ten o'clock deadline!

That must have been some size of valise - would it have been a big steamer trunk or something like that? Surely they couldn't lug such HUGE luggage about at the Front?

The rotten billets must have been REALLY rotten if they were bad compared to a night in a valise!

Night everybody!

Marina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just imagine waking up and finding 2 grown men in your case!! That would have made my day - what a sight! I'm starting to think that John & Scotty were a real pair of wags.

Oct 22nd:

.... having marched FR? - could it be FH - his short-hand for 'for hours'??

Oct 24th:

Mammetz? and Frecoourt? - Mametz and Fricourt

[back on one of my maps again]

Jules - just to help you out in advance - they'll be heading up to Pommiers Camp just out of Gueudecourt soon.

Cheers, Frev

[pompeyrodney]

Evening All

55th Instalment

Wednesday October 25th

Reveille 7 o/c. Parade 9 o/c. Inspection of kit and PT. Parade 2 o/c of active officers and NCO’s. It has been raining nearly all day and everything is very muddy. We are all expecting to take part in a big stunt here shortly the last objective being Bapaume. Great difficulty is being experienced in getting up sufficient stores to the front line owing to the horrible state of the track and roads leading to it brought about by so much wet weather. Captain Bolton, Charlie Fox and Dan Weeks came back today. Turned in 6.30

Thursday October 26th

A pretty heavy bombardment by us last night. Up at 7.30 usual parades. It has continued to drizzle all day and I understand this stunt has now been postponed indefinitely. Section by Leurs? Gun Officer at 3 O/c? At 4 o/c orders for A and B company to go on working party. Left 4.30 and went to Brigade HQ and then to a bye road to clean away slush about 9” deep and put down sleepers. 5 and 7 platoons came home about 10 o/c. In camp at 11 o/c. The main road is e—p-ly ? congested with traffic.

Friday October 27th

Back in bed. Still raining. Usual inspection and PT. March in afternoon. Completion of L G Action. No fatigue tonight. The stunt towards Bapaume is constantly being postponed owing to the wet. Senior officers from brigade go up daily to reconnoitre.

Night all

Regards

Julian

[marina]

Evening All

Thursday October 26th

A pretty heavy bombardment by us last night. Up at 7.30 usual parades. It has continued to drizzle all day and I understand this stunt has now been postponed indefinitely. Section by Leurs? Gun Officer at 3 O/c? At 4 o/c orders for A and B company to go on working party. Left 4.30 and went to Brigade HQ and then to a bye road to clean away slush about 9” deep and put down sleepers. 5 and 7 platoons came home about 10 o/c. In camp at 11 o/c. The main road is e—p-ly ? congested with traffic.

As if the bombardment wasn't bad ernpugh, they get slush as well.

Do we get to Bapaume today, Jules?

Marina

[frev]

Howdy Jules

How's it all going - are your eyes giving you headaches every time you try to decipher that faint old script? Just think - you'll be an expert at it when you've finished - you could even take it on as a new job!!!!!!

I bet you these two expressions just followed each other across your face.

Look at the bright side - it's slowed you down - so the RSI in your fingers should be starting to heal, right.

Anyway, enough fun (at your expense).

Oct 26th

Section by Leurs? Gun Officer at 3 o/c? - Wondered whether this might actually read - Lecture by Lewis Gun Officer at 3 o/c.

A few comments about the road conditions by an Aussie Transport Driver who just arrived in the area:

Sat 28/10/16

We are in for a terrible time, the heavy traffic has cut the roads to pieces, everything is mud.

Sun 29/10/16

Left for Contay for special 4.5 ammunition with No. 7, got it, roads terrible. Dark overtook us at Mametz, terrific road, engine stopped. Crawl in mud 18 inches deep.

Got to Plateaw Rail Head waited in mud for petrol. Towards Maricourt and Longuaval all guns going. Bazentin Le Petit guns going, atrocious roads.

Mon 30/10/16

Everything awful, roads most awful I've seen.

......................... Pouring rain, great German dugouts everywhere. Traffic terrible: six hours for three miles allowed to get through. Suffering of infantry awful.

[etc etc etc.]

Cheers, Frev

[pompeyrodney]

Howdy Frev

Thanks again for your ideas with regard to what John had written. "Section by Leurs? Gun Officer at 3 o/c?" should actually have read "Lecture by Lewis Gun Officer at 3 o/c", as you nearly suggested. I see you have noticed how much I have slowed down in my deciphering, it is really hard work as you may have gathered. Rest assured I shall keep going with your help Frev, anyway back to the typing.

Regards

Julian

[Robert Dunlop]

Nice example of one of the many ways that information was disseminated throughout the Army.

Robert

[pompeyrodney]

HI Robert

I take it you mean through the use of lectures. It would seem to me to be just about the only way of getting the info down to the men at that time. Do you know of any other ways of disseminating information to those that needed it Robert ?

Regards

Julain

[pompeyrodney]

56th Instalment

Saturday October 28th

Better weather today. 9 o/c In charge of working party of 80 men filling in dead German trench and burying loose barbed wire. Same with afternoon. OC’’s inspection today.

Sunday October 29th

Rained like fury all night. Frightfully muddy. Issue of bombs sandbags ands skin coats. Orders received at 12 o/c to move at 2 o/c. A great amount of bustle and confusion. Moved out at intervals but the leading company was stopped and told to stand by. After waiting half an hour we were sent back to camp the position we were going to being untenable tonight due to the weather. Occupied a lesser number of huts when we got back. The stint is now off. Daily issue of rum from now onwards.

Monday October 30th

9 o/c. Inspection of arms etc and issue of whale oil. PT. We will probably move up today. Advance party went up today to make up old dug outs. A number of cases of trench feet have occurred in the ranks of the regiment we are relieving. We have had none yet. It rained cats and dogs during the afternoon and everything is now getting more and more slushy. Once again we are to be allowed to stay here for the night and consider ourselves very fortunate. The 5th and 6th are in the line and the 7th in reserve.

Tuesday October 31st

Rained like fury last night. Inspection. Drying of clothes in improvised drying room. The party that went yesterday to build dug outs returned this morning in a most pitiful state. Expecting to move up today but hope for the best. Still raining. The Hun dropped six bombs near here tonight. Did little or no damage.

Wednesday November 1st

Up early and moved out at 12 o/c. In places the main road is a sea of mud and closed for clearance. There is a small army of men working on it. Our people are making great efforts to keep the roads clear but it is a hopeless task. We have not a very great difficulty in advancing but the trouble is to keep up supplies and munitions. Arrived at Pomiers redoubt at 1.30, a distance of one and a half miles and at 3 o/c received orders just after dinner to move out at once. Went to dug out camp at Burnafoy? Good officers quarters only as B coy’s have C and D coming up tonight. Played cards at night.

Thursday November 2nd

A good deal of big gun fire last night. A few shells near us but intended for a 6” naval gun some distance away. Up at 9 o/c. Remainder of battalion arrived at 11 o/c. Very cramped. Battalion moved off at 5 o/c and proceeded along a main road with slush in places up to the knees (without exaggeration) through Delville? Moved along a frightful track to a very poor trench. Relieved 6th battalion. No cover from rain or shell fire. Lots of the men made “possies”? outside the trench, including Miles and I. Very cold and wet, slept for about 4 hours.

Friday November 3rd

Awoke 5.30 cold as charity and set about making a new dug out with Captain Kenby? and Miles. Extra ordinary aerial activity today standing where we were and looking up we counted no less than 72 planes and a number of observation balloons. Went into Fleurs foraging for dug out material. The village has been a fair sized one but is now a mass of ruins, though not as bas as Popieres. Plenty of dead lying about. At 5 o/c went and had a look at tank D5 which was put out of action in the advance some time back. It had been hit by a shell, the bodies of 2 of its crew being buried alongside it. We realised the wisdom of our days work when it came to turning in at night.

Saturday November 4th

Rained a little through the night and as is usual on the front line the artillery hammered away like fury as it has done ever since we arrived here. Sometimes it is terrific as in one case last night when the Bosch attacked our line not far away and we ---in back. Party of 20 officers and 100 men from our company to take duckboards up to the line. The church spire in Bapaume can be seen in the distance from here.

Sunday November 5th

3 heavy showers of rain during the night but we slept till 8 o/c. Several heavy bursts of artillery fire at 9 o/c. There was a very intense bombardment close by and I think there must have been a “hop-over”. 6 o/c. 12 of D coy moved up to the firing line through mud varying from 18” to 2 feet deep. Eventually had to abandon the trench and go over the top, men becoming bogged like horses. Pretty risky but had no casualties. Relieved D coy 5th battalion. On duty 10-12.

Monday November 6th

Went to company HQ when not on duty. It is an old German big gun position with a system of dug outs and he strafes it consistently. Three men of the company we relieved being killed. Lay “doggo” during the day. The exact position of the Hun here is doubtful. He is established somewhere across the gully and the 1st Brigade tried to shift him a while back and failed with heavy casualties. A lot of dead can be seen laying about. It is a lively run from Coy HQ to the trench where the men are across the lop, the trench being impassable. Sniped all the way. After lunch Scotty and I got orders to go up to green trench and reconnoitre for a job of work to be done at night. We both had waders on and still the slush came in the top of them. It was 3 feet deep at least. Eventually got there and met Major Mitchell and Tas Mummery. We have to take 50 men out tonight and dig a trench from which it is rumoured we will eventually hop out tonight across the gully to our CHQ. An impossible stunt. Started out just before dusk and all went well. Despite the fact that we were sniped at all the while we only had one casualty. Back about 1 o/c.

A nice long instalment so I am hoping for lots of feedback from you all

Good night all

Regards

Julian

[Robert Dunlop]

I take it you mean through the use of lectures. It would seem to me to be just about the only way of getting the info down to the men at that time. Do you know of any other ways of disseminating information to those that needed it Robert ?

Hi Julian

Yes, I was referring to the use of lectures. This could be formal lectures, for example someone invited in from outside the unit. In the history of the Scots Guards, they invited Canadians to come and talk on their successful attack at Vimy. Lectures might be informal and impromptu. Sometimes, a unit commander might chose to give a talk on some aspect of tactics for example. I have also read about what we might call seminars these days - several speakers presenting to a group of men who stayed in a residential course for a few days. The Master of Belhaven mentioned attending such a 'refresher' course. Typically, it seemed to be the meeting with others on the course, rather than the lectures, that stimulated the most interest and discussion.

Training courses were held in all sorts of things: anti-gas measures, musketry, bombing, use of Lewis guns, sniping and scouting, etc.

Informal discussions might be encouraged within units. The Australians and New Zealanders seemed to follow this approach, perhaps in part because officers and NCOs tended to be from the same social background.

Simulations were important. This included access to models of the terrain to be attacked, practicising manoeuveres with tanks (or models thereof), or mock-barrages for example.

Training and other information leaflets/manuals were issued on a range of topics.

I have also read where officers from Eton would get together whenever they were in the vicinity. No doubt this would happen with officers from other social groups, such as cavalrymen who had served in the same regiment before the war. These gatherings offered an important opportunity for the sharing of knowledge and experience. Several prominent generals, such as Rawlinson, Plumer, and Byng, were Etonians, and they might meet up with the likes of Fraser-Tytler who was an officer serving in the field artillery.

Just some of the many ways that information and experience was passed on.

Robert

[marina]

Yes, that was a substantial one - especially considering the diffcult handwriting. Miserably uncomfortable time they're all having in the mud.

Why does he say that orders were issued for rum rations 'from now onwards'? Didn't they always have it?

Marina

[pompeyrodney]

Hi Julian

Yes, I was referring to the use of lectures.  This could be formal lectures, for example someone invited in from outside the unit.  In the history of the Scots Guards, they invited Canadians to come and talk on their successful attack at Vimy.  Lectures might be informal and impromptu.  Sometimes, a unit commander might chose to give a talk on some aspect of tactics for example.  I have also read about what we might call seminars these days - several speakers presenting to a group of men who stayed in a residential course for a few days.  The Master of Belhaven mentioned attending such a 'refresher' course.  Typically, it seemed to be the meeting with others on the course, rather than the lectures, that stimulated the most interest and discussion.

Training courses were held in all sorts of things: anti-gas measures, musketry, bombing, use of Lewis guns, sniping and scouting, etc.

Informal discussions might be encouraged within units.  The Australians and New Zealanders seemed to follow this approach, perhaps in part because officers and NCOs tended to be from the same social background.

Simulations were important.  This included access to models of the terrain to be attacked, practicising manoeuveres with tanks (or models thereof), or mock-barrages for example.

Training and other information leaflets/manuals were issued on a range of topics.

I have also read where officers from Eton would get together whenever they were in the vicinity.  No doubt this would happen with officers from other social groups, such as cavalrymen who had served in the same regiment before the war.  These gatherings offered an important opportunity for the sharing of knowledge and experience.  Several prominent generals, such as Rawlinson, Plumer, and Byng, were Etonians, and they might meet up with the likes of Fraser-Tytler who was an officer serving in the field artillery.

Just some of the many ways that information and experience was passed on.

Robert

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many thanks Robert I certainly had not appreciated all the various ways to spead the word so to speak. My grandfather certainly seemed to attend a lot of lectures and courses thats for sure. Thanks again.

Julian

[Ozzie]

What a miserable way to live day by day; mud, cold, getting ready t go to the front then have it called off.

It is efforts by the likes of yourself, Jules, that bring to life, what the soldiers went through and helps us to understand.

Thankyou

Kim

[pompeyrodney]

What a miserable way to live day by day; mud, cold, getting ready t go to the front then have it called off.

It is efforts by the likes of yourself, Jules, that bring to life, what the soldiers went through and helps us to understand.

Thankyou

Kim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Kim

I was struck like yourself by the sheer misery they all must have felt in those awful conditions. It is hard to imagine what it must have been like to try and get around in mud that came over the top of a pair of waders. Then to have to fight in it as well must have been truly depressing indeed. Imagine trying to move in the mud whilst a sniper has you in the cross of his telescopic sights, it amazes me how they only had one casualty. Glad to hear the diary is educating you and others Kim, it certainly is me.

Regards

Julian

[frev]

Well Jules,

After that last instalment the RSI's sure to start kicking in again!

Is there any evidence of that relentless mud on the actual diary?

Wed Nov 1st

Went to dug out camp at Burnafoy? - Bernafay - this camp had large (dry!!) underground dugouts.

Thur Nov 2nd

Delville? - this would have been Delville Wood

"possies"? - this was often used by the Aussies to describe their little home-away-from-homes. A place of their own. [some of us still use the word today - short for position]

Fri Nov 3rd

Fleurs - Flers

Popieres - Pozieres

Mon Nov 6th

.... across the lop, the trench being impassable. - top (probably only a typing error?)

Just a little more detail on where they were [from 'Cobbers in Khaki']

"The cold, wet winter had now set in, and on 2nd November, the battalion moved up to Switch Trench with 'mud up to our knees' and relieved the 6th Battalion for several days before relieving the 5th Battalion in Biscuit, Pioneer's, Bull's Run and Grease Trenches."

[from 'Forward With the Fifth']

"The Eighth Battalion relieved on the Fifth of November and as if to celebrate the day by fireworks, the German artillery fire became intense, the Fifth having five men killed, besides those wounded. Leaving the slimy trench behind with thankful hearts, the relieved men slid and floundered in the darkness towards the rear, ....."

Cheers, Frev

[marina]

There's a titbit about Bernafay on the supernatural occurrences thread.

Marina