Who is This ? ? ?

[Uncle George]

  

     UG-Your memory is going.....Look at the attached picture-a moth-eaten has-been of yesteryear (No,not the lovely Judy Spiers)-    Does not Westward TV bring up any memories?  They explained the name as being from signals call-sign- Plymouth and Port  Smouth- GUS and GUZ. Have to say I thought Plymouth was GUS (hence Honeybun-advertising Pompey in Plymouth is,I believe,still a capital offence) and Port Smouth was GUZ

You forgot to attach the picture. And anyway, the 'Erald exploded the call-sign theory, it seems (see post #9859).

[seaJane]

26 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

"guzzling oggies", or eating meat pies.

 

Please - oggies are pasties, Cornish!!

The Sally Port used to be a rather good pub/restaurant/hotel on Portsmouth High Street but alas it closed a couple of years back and is now residential.

Edited 25 April , 2018 by seaJane

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

This is 'The Navy', is it not. It's been 'The Navy' since Victoria.

   The supposed restaurant next to it???   I have not lived in the City since 1972.  My apologies.   Now-some  more about Guz- from Tinternet-comments at the end

 

The Royal Naval Plymouth Command had two endearing names which we sailors always used and with great affection. Unless you choose the word Pompey, the Portsmouth Command has no such cryptic endearments and 'Chatty Chats' for the now long gone Chatham Base was hardly imaginative. Chatham was in the Nore area of the UK and thus was in the Nore Command. The Nore is a sandbank at the mouth of the Thames Estuary.   It marks the point where the River Thames meets the North Sea, roughly halfway between Havengore Creek in Essex and Warden Point in Kent. However, when you have read this page, have a look at another Naval Command Port - see end of page.

First off, the Plymouth Command itself was called GUZ or GUZZ {the latter the norm when writing the name}, and the Naval Barracks there were called JAGO's. Why ?

1.     GUZ or GUZZ is an Asian word for a measurement - see the O.E.D., - [of rope, of cloth etc] and many such Asian words were used in UK military jargon like for example the colour khaki for uniforms, punkalouvers for air supply in ships, puttee's for gaiters etc. I have in my possession an interesting leather-bound book written in 1894 as the 7th edition, by Captain Frederick George Bedford Royal Navy, called "THE SAILORS POCKET BOOK".  In it, Captain Bedford uses the word Guz as a measurement of ONE YARD, viz, 36 inches.  Note, in a nautical mile there are 2000 yards whereas in a land mile there are 1760 yards.

In the late 19th century, sailors in the west country referred to their homecoming from sea service as coming home to the DOCKYARD.  That in turn was shortened to the YARD and further shortened to GUZ or GUZZ *

2.     As the newly constructed Naval Barracks in Devonport were completed and occupied mainly by ratings [the wardroom took seven more years to build] and called HMS Vivid [later, in 1934 changed to HMS Drake] sailors serving in the west country referred to their barrack accommodation as Jago's.

On the 1st October 1911, Alphonso Jago was appointed Warrant Instructor in Cookery where he remained until his death in 1928. During that time Mr Jago was responsible for a major change in the serving of the food.  The change involved a move away from eating in messes and towards eating in dining halls.  It became known as the general mess system and was officially accepted in 1922.  The system spread rapidly throughout the Royal Navy and it earned HMS Vivid the nickname of Jago's Mansions.

Now, whilst the Pompey Boy's like their music.....play up Pompey.....and the Chatham Boy's used to like to talk a lot......Chatty Chats.....we in the Guzz area liked our food and drink.  We were the only boy's who would have a full RAS[L] down Unionstrasa and then, returning to our ships via the Guzz Gates [Yard Gates,,,Dockyard Gates] of St Levan's and Albert, we would take onboard our Lub Oil requirement [bottles of milk] and our RAS [oggies] all the while chanting our war-cry of Oggie Oggie Oggie.  Ooops, so that's three west country words and not just the two, namely GUZZ, JAGO'S & OGGIES.  What a splendid place to have served in.......and then all was lost, because I joined boats and involuntarily changed Depots to Pompey like all submariners did.  However, I was lucky enough whilst in boats to be drafted to SM2 [HMS Adamant] alongside in Devonport to HM S/M Auriga, and much later on, then back in general service, I was appointed to Flag Officer Second Flotilla {FOF2} Staff as a warrant officer sea rider, and our Shore HQ was in Devonport's South Yard, victualled in HMS Drake on the few occasions we were not at sea world-wide in the Flagship either HMS Tiger or HMS London.

 

 

    Couple of comments 

1)    The connection with "yard". Could be plausible for another reason.  Background history reading years ago tripped up the "fact" that shipwrights at Portsmouth Royal Naval Dockyard were allowed the "perk" of gash (another under-used word) timber- off-cuts. The rule was that they had to be under 1 yard in length -if the piece of wood was longer, then it was theft. Gradually, these old perks were replaced by cash payments. I seem to remember reading that it was-allegedly-why so many  small "dockyardie" houses of the Eighteenth Century in Portsmouth had staircases under 3' wide-all made of "perks"   (Think it is in Peter Linebaugh "The London Hanged"-about how the use of a cash wage system replaced "perks" and payments in kind- may be in another book "Albion's Fatal Tree". I think we will have to ask Keith Roberts if there is any veracity in the Portsmouth usage- certainly a yard was an important consideration in the navy of wooden walls  (I think there is stuff about it in the Reports of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry-all around 1805-is-all on how the dockyards actually worked)

 

2) I have distant relatives  called Jago- from the Cawsand area.  My dining experiences in devonport were largely at Aggie Weston- I had a summer job in a nearby brewery.  A consequence of   dining halls was tragic. The big German raids of 1941 caused disproportionately heavy service casualties- OK, the dockyard and related insallations were the real target (The oil stores at Torpoint for example). BUT  the Royal Marine barracks in Durnford Street got a direct hit (My dad- afirewatcher in Devonport-Packington Street) said a German torpedo attack against Ark Royal, moored in under Mount Wise, had overshot and hit the barracks- and I believe the Petty Officers Mess had also received a direct hit. there is a macabre bit in Jock Colville's memoirs about WSC visiting the  dockyard  just after the big raids of March 1941- when their "lunch" included cold Windsor Soup- in a ruined mess, where the damage was hidden by tarpaulins and blankets-but WSC and co could still hear all the banging as chippies were making coffins to bury the dead.

 

 

[Guest]

 Not a full-blown WIT- UG will get it too easily-One of the greatest Britons of the Twentieth Century-for an obvious reason

[Uncle George]

On 25/04/2018 at 20:03, seaJane said:

Please - oggies are pasties, Cornish!!

 

 

Also everyday speech in Plymouth. 

 

 Not a full-blown WIT- UG will get it too easily-One of the greatest Britons of the Twentieth Century-for an obvious reason

 

No picture attached!

[Guest]

1200 × 893Images may be subject to copyright

 

 

 

 

[Uncle George]

1200 × 893Images may be subject to copyright

 

 

 

 

I always preferred Ron's myself. But it's all academic now:

 

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/story/2014-10-31/plymouth-pasty-firm-shuts-up-shop/

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Uncle George said:

 

I always preferred Ron's myself. But it's all academic now:

 

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/story/2014-10-31/plymouth-pasty-firm-shuts-up-shop/

 

 

 

     But which one had the greatest amount of gristle?

[Knotty]

Probably been on before as a first, but having not seen a picture before I thought I would post to see if he’s known.

[neverforget]

7 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Probably been on before as a first, but having not seen a picture before I thought I would post to see if he’s known.

Indeed he has. I remember posting the same picture, but one that more recent inmates might find interesting, so let him run.

[Guest]

Put up this chap as well- the one on the left.  You want clues as well? Spoilt children that you must have been!!   OK-  he could have been a flying ace of the Great War had not Planet Earth  (No, No-not the Attenborough thingy.....c'mon,pay attention)  won several encounters when he was flying.   There is a link- a rather sinister one- with Rupert Brooke

 

(No,no,no- OK, the one on the right does look like a pre 1939 Alan Brooke but that is not the Brooke connection)

 

 

Edited 26 April , 2018 by Guest

[Knotty]

48 minutes ago, neverforget said:

Indeed he has. I remember posting the same picture, but one that more recent inmates might find interesting, so let him run.

Sorry NF, you must be getting a persecution complex brought on by my good self.

[neverforget]

9 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Sorry NF, you must be getting a persecution complex brought on by my good self.

The fact that I suffer from a paranoia complex doesn't mean that everyone isn't out to get me.😓

[Uncle George]

Put up this chap as well- the one on the left.  You want clues as well? Spoilt children that you must have been!!   OK-  he could have been a flying ace of the Great War had not Planet Earth  (No, No-not the Attenborough thingy.....c'mon,pay attention)  won several encounters when he was flying.   There is a link- a rather sinister one- with Rupert Brooke

 

(No,no,no- OK, the one on the right does look like a pre 1939 Alan Brooke but that is not the Brooke connection)

 

 

Dunno about the one on the left, but the chap in the middle is Richard Wattis. Or Mr Brown, as I like to remember him.

 

 

[Uncle George]

Put up this chap as well- the one on the left.  You want clues as well? Spoilt children that you must have been!!   OK-  he could have been a flying ace of the Great War had not Planet Earth  (No, No-not the Attenborough thingy.....c'mon,pay attention)  won several encounters when he was flying.   

 

Is he Norman Spratt? He took part in the first dogfight in 1914, and survived a number of crashes ...

[ajsmith]

Unfortunately I hovered over the image and his name appears on my status bar. I won't reveal his identity though.

 

Tony

[Ron Clifton]

16 hours ago, seaJane said:

Please - oggies are pasties, Cornish!!

And what is a Cornish pasty if it's not a meat pie?

 

on

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ron Clifton said:

And what is a Cornish pasty if it's not a meat pie?

 

on

 

    The Last Supper if one persists with this culinary heresy, Ron-    the Stannary Parliament is being re-convened  specifically to pass an Act of Treason, Attainder and Outlawry against you.

(Actually it's a meat AND veg pie)

4 hours ago, Uncle George said:

Dunno about the one on the left, but the chap in the middle is Richard Wattis. Or Mr Brown, as I like to remember him.

 

   I fear not (though Wattis was a small arms instructor for SOE in Round 2). Nor is it Peter Glase

3 hours ago, ajsmith said:

Unfortunately I hovered over the image and his name appears on my status bar. I won't reveal his identity though.

 

Tony

 

    Thank you- I have not mastered the technology yet.  Only time I used a Thermos flask the accursed thing didn't work  It is supposed to keep hot things hot and cold things cold- I put in 2 cups of tea and an ice cream but something went wrong.

4 hours ago, Uncle George said:

 

Is he Norman Spratt? He took part in the first dogfight in 1914, and survived a number of crashes ...

 

   Alas,No UG- This should be quite a simp;le one-the chap was well-known and often photographed.  He was an advocate of arson, if you want a  bigger clue.

[seaJane]

(Actually it's a meat AND veg pie)

Furthermore, originally it had no meat in (too expensive).

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Furthermore, originally it had no meat in (too expensive).

 

Example 4 – Meat Pasty kg Other ingredients kg Beef brisket 75vl 100 Potato, Swede, Carrot 135 Water 10 Other ingredients 400 Total weight of ingredients 500 Final weight (after cooking) 450 Q. Do ANY of your ingredients contain excess fat or connective tissue? – Yes Q. Do you have more than one ingredient of the same species? - No Q. Do you have excess connective tissue? - No Q. Do you have excess fat? – Yes > Complete Section 4 – Correct for excess fat Q. Did you need to do a correction for excess connective tissue? – No 1. Calculate fat-free meat (100 – 32.4) 100 X 100 = 67.6 2. Include allowed fat 100 67.6 X (100 – 25) = 90.13 3. Calculate weight of excess fat 32.4 – (90.13 – 67.6) = 9.87

[seaJane]

I'm not reading anything with that many numbers in it!

[The Scorer]

35 minutes ago, seaJane said:

I'm not reading anything with that many numbers in it!

 

 

Never mind about reading it ... would you eat it?

[Knotty]

Any takers apart from NF on post#9872?

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Any takers apart from NF on post#9872?

 

      We need a subtle clue Knotty-  something along the lines of "If you don't know, get some new specs."   Alternatively, the post number of it's previous appearance might help.....just a little.

[Knotty]

Nothing subtle about this clue - His great grandfather was Erasmus Darwin, and this is on parr with his known first.

Unfortunately I still cannot locate his previous incarnation in WIT.