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museumtom

I need your help again lads and lassies.

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museumtom

What a find! I am sure that is my man, how did you find it? I scoured FMP relentlessly, I even passed by him as he could not be found. You are a natural Craig! The question is could spinal paralysis be the next stage of syphilis? 

Thank you Craig, he was beyond me but you found him, thanks a million!.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

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ss002d6252
Quote

The question is could spinal paralysis be the next stage of syphilis? 

I was wondering that as the man was having issues walking and moving when discharged - apparently syphilis can infect the spinal column and cause paralysis.

 

Craig

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George Rayner

Just beat me...

In spinal syphilis, the inflammatory destruction spreads to the spinal system and may cause partial leg paralysis or spastic paraparesis.-Google

 

George

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museumtom

Thanks lads.

That nails it, I have added him to the Irish casualties. He will not qualify and he had syphilis when he joined. How did they miss that?

 Kind regards.

 Tom.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Morning all.

Yes it causes damage to some special bundles of nerves in the spine called the Posterior Columns. It's called Tabes Dorsalis, typical sign is someone with a high stepping gait, because the nerves affected are those carrying position receptors from the feet. So initially, they trip over everything, until they condition themselves to lift their feet. Nasty condition, no cure then.

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museumtom

Thanks Dai, all great information to have in the mental toolbox. It may be the registrar did him a kindness recording it as spinal paralysis.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

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keithmroberts

Can I just clarify some procedures, and this has been a really helpful thread.

Sharing information is always OK. Copyright is a bit of a minefield. Under "fair Dealing" posting a snippet from a larger document to answer a query pretty certainly falls as OK within UK law although strictly the source should always be referenced. .  Posting full pages or entire documents from copyright sources is generally not going to be seen as acceptable even with the source specified.

Its not simple, and we want to tread lightly so far as possible, but  by removing any images that seem to exceed the guidelines we protect the future of the GWF. 

 

Keith Roberts

GWF team

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George Rayner

Morning Keith

does the 10% rule apply that I used in education? 

 

George

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museumtom

Thank you Keith, always good to know the rules, so only bits of documents are ok?

All the images I post are bits from the sheets of death certificates that I source online. Each sheet has 10 certs on it.

Edited by museumtom

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George Rayner

...and I do a single page if more than 10 in the online record but am happy to crop if that is better for everybody

 

George

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Jeremiah O'D, has a few pages on Ancestry Pension Records. Mentions his discharge in July 1915, but no diagnosis.

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George Rayner

Is he in Royal Munster Fusiliers #6995?

 

George

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George Rayner

6995 was discharged because of tubercule of lung 25/7/15

36396/D Chelsea number

 

George

Edited by George Rayner

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George Rayner

Looking through Ancestry medal rolls the soldier prior to Jeremiah-of who there are two-is Florence. Is that a usual name?

 

George

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museumtom

Thank you lads, Yes there is a sheet in FMP that says he was discharged with T.B. but not one that says it was caused by, or aggrevated by military service.  Funny enough George, Florence was a popular male name in 1911.

 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=false&census_year=1911&surname=&firstname=florence&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&barony=&parish=&ward=&townland=&houseNumber=&familyId=&ded=&age=&sex=M&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

 

If anyone has a relevant image available that nails it down, I would appreciate it if you posted the url please. I dont have access to ancestry but Terry has, so that will cover it.

 Thank you all again for all your help. These men would not have been added with it.

 Kindest regards.

 Tom.

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keithmroberts
1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

does the 10% rule apply that I used in education? 

There's no absolute rule, but generally it is a reasonable approach.  The problem with whole pages, or complete documents is among other things, that we don't as volunteers ourselves have the time to check back to examine the original sources. Keeping extracts to a minimum  is the best approach and always quoting the source.  Tom clearly has FMP access  so links to larger documents there will also work for him although in most cases he has clearly found whatever FMP have for himself already. .

 

I have ordered a few copy death certificates myself, and we have always drawn a distinction when a poster seeks help with a document for which they have paid, although with such as Ancestry they do set out their license terms. I don't recall restrictions being imposed when I ordered death certificates.

 

Keith

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museumtom

Thank you for clarifying Keith.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

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George Rayner

Thanks Keith. I will take greater care in the future

 

George

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George Rayner

Doesn't seem to be anything. Medical officer says if there is a question then 'spittle should be tested'!

 

George

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ss002d6252
2 hours ago, museumtom said:

This guy looks an easy find. And he is in FMP but the medical sheet is blank, although one sheet says he was discharged with TB. Can you find the medical sheet in another location please?

Jeremiah O'Donoghue, 6995, RMF. 

His records with the unfilled sheets are here, but they contain nothing I can use to put him forward. Can you help me once again please?

 Kind regards.

Tom.

1.JPG

 

His pension was certainly paid for TB and it is given as the disability which led to discharge - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1114/miuk1914a_085950-02374?pid=695511&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3Dcla194%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dbritisharmy%26cp%3D0%26_F0007CF4%3Droyal%20munster%26_F8007A65%3D6995%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D784%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D695511%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=cla194&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=miuk1914a_085950-02370
image.png.3264a1a873344184ef28bdee36ce9c07.png

 

 

 

 

Craig

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George Rayner

I can't find anything which says attributable to service though-or is it implied through award of pension?

 

George

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museumtom

Thanks Craig and George. The sheet that should say it was caused by or aggravated by military service is not there or blank. Terry say he cannot find it either.

 Thanks for trying though!

Kind regards.

 Tom.

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ss002d6252
1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

I can't find anything which says attributable to service though-or is it implied through award of pension?

 

George


This discharge was pre MoP and dealt with at Chelsea as the War Pensions Acts had not yet been passed. The decision to pension rested with Chelsea and, at the moment, I'm not aware of their actual criteria. I think this needs to checked when I get a minute.

Edit:
What I can see so far indicates that, under Chelsea control, a pension would be only where the impairment was aggravated or caused by service.

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252

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George Rayner

That's a positive then Tom. Thanks Craig

 

George

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ss002d6252
3 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

That's a positive then Tom. Thanks Craig

 

George

I think there's a good argument to be made for the men where a pension was only paid for where the impairment was aggravated or caused by service - I just need to confirm it. If so then there's a good few men who have not passed the initial filter who would then qualify under CWGC rules.

 

Craig

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