Polar Bear Posted 12 February , 2021 Share Posted 12 February , 2021 49 minutes ago, SHJ said: Thats terrific information Frogsmile! It does tie in. The family were there during 1891 census and one door down was this chap: Colonel Henry Buchaman Dunlop? Not Lancers but he might well have influenced their son to join up and maybe he is the one in the photo... it's all surmise and vague possibility but interesting. very interesting. Thanks! Weekend researching sorted! Even if only to find out more about this chap. Well there's quite a lot on someone who I assume is his son here: http://www.janetandrichardsgenealogy.co.uk/Capt H D Buchanan-Dunlop.html Also here (with a link to the Father): https://www.geni.com/people/Lt-Col-Archibald-Buchanan-Dunlop-OBE/6000000069544689246 There's more floating around the internet on the son but that gives the basics. Hope that helps. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipcress Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 One possibly for @Muerrisch or someone else but why does this chap have the hatched chevron on the lower half of one sleeve but the upper of the other ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GROBBY Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 I have some but they are German ones with Regimental stamps .Would they be of interest ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 I think there is a separate thread for German postcards in the forum. GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Ipcress said: One possibly for @Muerrisch or someone else but why does this chap have the hatched chevron on the lower half of one sleeve but the upper of the other ? Upper right & left sleeves - insignia of a Lance Corporal. Lower right sleeve - War Service Chevrons. Lower left sleeve - 2 Good Conduct chevrons, signifying years of good conduct & service. Frogsmile or meurrisch will be along shortly to expand of the number of yrs. A very nice Photo. I love his moustache! Edited 17 February , 2021 by RNCVR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipcress Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 That's brilliant, thanks ! Yeah, the tache is wonderful - he's a proper chap. Also one of the best fitting tunics i've seen in one of these ( and he's not sweating at his left armpit, it's just an unfortunate smudge ) The white spot lower right is a developing blemish, which is a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 Photo is in really good shape for its age. The medal ribbon he is wearing could be either the 1914 or 1914-15 star. Its difficult to see if he is wearing the red War Service chevron(bottom most chevron) indicating service in France\Flanders during 1914. I cannot determine if its there or not. Lets see what other mates think...... Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 52 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Photo is in really good shape for its age. The medal ribbon he is wearing could be either the 1914 or 1914-15 star. Its difficult to see if he is wearing the red War Service chevron(bottom most chevron) indicating service in France\Flanders during 1914. I cannot determine if its there or not. Lets see what other mates think...... Best...Bryan It certainly looks like the red one is there to my eyes. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 Yes I think a red one too 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 Yes I think so as well, had a look with a glass & it appears as if something is below the 3 upper chevrons. In that case his medal ribbon could represent the 1914 star. Photo then likely taken early late 1918 or early 1919(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipcress Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 Yes, he's wearing that chevron - well spotted ! There's also something on his left shoulder - possibly titles ? The buttons look like they have the General Service Order of the Garter / Coat of arms on them. The postcard is inscribed to his brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 The one visible shoulder title appears to be a 2-piece type, which given general service buttons, indicates either a fusilier or a light infantry regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 17 February , 2021 Share Posted 17 February , 2021 2 hours ago, RNCVR said: Yes I think so as well, had a look with a glass & it appears as if something is below the 3 upper chevrons. In that case his medal ribbon could represent the 1914 star. Photo then likely taken early late 1918 or early 1919(?) If the ribbon is for the 1914 Star then the photo dates from somewhere between it's introduction in April 1917 and the introduction of the BWM in July 1919. If it's for the 1914-1915 Star then it dates from between December 1918 and July 1919. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 12 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said: If the ribbon is for the 1914 Star then the photo dates from somewhere between it's introduction in April 1917 and the introduction of the BWM in July 1919. If it's for the 1914-1915 Star then it dates from between December 1918 and July 1919. Pete. We can do much better than that. Accepting the red chevron it is the 1914 star ribbon. Overseas chevrons were not authorised until very late 1917 and very unlikely to appear before Jan 1918. Also the fact that he has a red chevron indicates active service before end Nov 1914, therefore first blue Nov 1915, second Nov 1916, third Nov 1917 but not a fourth so [here it gets a bit more problematic] not as late as say December 1918 . That assumes he is still serving overseas through 1918 and had not lost continuity ........... This is one smart soldier, neat collar to jacket, shiny boots, marksman badge prominently displayed and careful matching of chevron style. The cross hatches were not particularly rare, and not unit-specific but [more speculation] as mixed-style chevrons GCB versus rank are common, I think he has taken good care to present himself as a soldier. Minimum five years of service judging from GCBs, could be almost twelve. A great portrait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Muerrisch said: We can do much better than that. Accepting the red chevron it is the 1914 star ribbon. Overseas chevrons were not authorised until very late 1917 and very unlikely to appear before Jan 1918. Also the fact that he has a red chevron indicates active service before end Nov 1914, therefore first blue Nov 1915, second Nov 1916, third Nov 1917 but not a fourth so [here it gets a bit more problematic] not as late as say December 1918 . That assumes he is still serving overseas through 1918 and had not lost continuity ... There's a couple of errors in there - as per the original Army Order wording "“Chevrons of two colours – red and blue – have been approved. The first chevron, if earned on or before 31st December 1914, will be red; if earned on or after 1st January 1915, it will be blue; and all additional chevrons after the first will be blue”. Also - "The 1914 Star was authorised under Special Army Order no. 350 in November 1917 and by an Admiralty Fleet Order in January 1918, for award to officers and men of the British and Indian Expeditionary Forces who served in France or Belgium between 5 August and midnight of 22–23 November 1914." And "The 1914–15 Star was instituted in December 1918 and was awarded to officers and men of British and Imperial forces who served against the Central European Powers in any theatre of the Great War between 5 August 1914 and 31 December 1915, provided they had not already received the 1914 Star." Though the odds are correspondingly smaller, it is entirely possible for a man to first serve overseas in a theatre of war after midnight of the 22nd/23rd November 1914 but on/before the 31st December 1914, thus being entitled to both the red Overseas Service Chevron but only receive the 1914-15 Star instead of the 1914 Star. Edited 18 February , 2021 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 Andrew, Yes, I stand corrected, I have all the criteria you quote and was too lazy to go upstairs to my study!. Which leads me to ask what date/ period do you think the photo was taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 I never realised it took seven months for the 1914 star to be authorised, having been established in April 1917. Must try harder. Pete. 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 2 hours ago, Muerrisch said: Which leads me to ask what date/ period do you think the photo was taken? Somewhere between early 1918 and mid/late 1919 in all probability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 18 February , 2021 Share Posted 18 February , 2021 5 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said: Somewhere between early 1918 and mid/late 1919 in all probability. Thank you, I cannot disagree but is not the absence of a fourth blue chevron suggestive of "within 1918 or very early 1919" unless he had ceased to qualify? Either way, I am grateful for your advice and correction ........... the area is not my forte, not that I have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 7 hours ago, Muerrisch said: Thank you, I cannot disagree but is not the absence of a fourth blue chevron suggestive of "within 1918 or very early 1919" unless he had ceased to qualify? And reasons that could have disqualified the wearer from picking up the extra blue stripe are so easy and varied that they can't be easily ruled out. A bout of home service or sickness spent in the UK or ... could have made all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipcress Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 17 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: Somewhere between early 1918 and mid/late 1919 in all probability. The photo is Crown Studios of Birmingham and London, who apparently started c1913, so i'm unable to narrow it down using that method As much as i like the photo, it's been a fascinating couple of pages, so, i may offer him and a few others in the classifieds and donate the proceeds towards the site A few chevrons and a medal ribbon and you lot have almost nailed what he had for breakfast that morning. Sherlockian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 24 minutes ago, Ipcress said: The photo is Crown Studios of Birmingham and London, who apparently started c1913, so i'm unable to narrow it down using that method As much as i like the photo, it's been a fascinating couple of pages, so, i may offer him and a few others in the classifieds and donate the proceeds towards the site A few chevrons and a medal ribbon and you lot have almost nailed what he had for breakfast that morning. Sherlockian. I expect the Forum has a breakfast menu guru 10 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: And reasons that could have disqualified the wearer from picking up the extra blue stripe are so easy and varied that they can't be easily ruled out. A bout of home service or sickness spent in the UK or ... could have made all the difference. Totally agree. At least he bears no wound badge. Thank you for the help with fine print! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 31 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: I expect the Forum has a breakfast menu guru Tea, bread and bacon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 2 hours ago, squirrel said: Tea, bread and bacon... See what I mean ? [marmalade was reserved for sticking notices on dugout walls, the predecessor of blutac] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 4 hours ago, Muerrisch said: I expect the Forum has a breakfast menu guru Tea, bread and bacon... 1 hour ago, Muerrisch said: See what I mean ? [marmalade was reserved for sticking notices on dugout walls, the predecessor of blutac] Tea, bread and bacon seems to have been the usual fare for breakfast in barracks, in billets or in the trenches, the latter if the rations had come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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