Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Good spot: looks indeed like a gothic G in a wreath. cannot quite see if there is a star or a crown above for the higher grades.

Here’re several of the bullion versions like that worn in the photo.

 

 

 

Edited 28 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Grovetown]

On 27/06/2020 at 15:01, FROGSMILE said:

It seems then that they are indeed all RHA

Is all the swords being the 1908 cavalry pattern a problem in terms of a firm RHA ID?

 

Cheers,

 

GT. 

[charlie962]

Just now, Grovetown said:

1908 cavalry pattern a problem in terms of a firm RHA ID?

Quite correct for RHA

[Grovetown]

11 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Quite correct for RHA

Thanks. 

[Jerry B]

23 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

Is all the swords being the 1908 cavalry pattern a problem in terms of a firm RHA ID?

 

Cheers,

 

GT. 

 

it was the swords that led me to think they were cavalry initially though with at least some gunners among them

 

there has been a lot of interesting information post, amazing what one post card can lead to

[FROGSMILE]

26 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

Is all the swords being the 1908 cavalry pattern a problem in terms of a firm RHA ID?

 

Cheers,

 

GT. 

 

The RHA of those times were closely aligned with the cavalry, and generally deployed with cavalry brigades and divisions.  They were equipped accordingly.

[charlie962]

8 minutes ago, Jerry B said:

amazing what one post card can lead to

Those group photos are often worth a thread of their own.

[GWF1967]

6591. Rifleman Hargreaves Stead. G.Coy. 1st K.R.R.C., Bovington Camp, Dorset. 1914. 

Enlisted. 1/8/05.   C.1911. 3rd K.R.R.C. Dagashai Barracks, India.   France + Flanders. 27/8/1914.   Discharged due to wounds. 7/7/1915

[FROGSMILE]

Typical summer camp photo.  Most of them wearing the canvas duck fatigue suits with black buttons fitted by split pins and the short, standing collars, folded over for comfort.  Getting ready for mealtime I think. One man has stacked tin plates in his lap and there are two galvanised pails full of the issued porcelain mugs. Interesting that he seems to be wearing an obsolescent felt hat, showing himself as an ‘old-soldier’.  I can’t make out what other object he has in his lap, but it looks like a tree branch?

Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

 I can’t make out what other object he has in his lap, but it looks like a tree branch?

A besom broom for sweeping out the bell tent. 

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

A besom broom for sweeping out the bell tent. 

Makes complete sense, thank you.  I did wonder if it was a switch, or something used to scour, as the handle seemed too short to be a broom, but I think you’re right.  I imagine that they did fashion makeshift, short-handled brooms too.

Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Typical summer camp photo.  Most of them wearing the canvas duck fatigue suits with black buttons fitted by split pins and the short, standing collars, folded over for comfort.  Getting ready for mealtime I think. One man has stacked tin plates in his lap and there are two galvanized pails full of the issued porcelain mugs. Interesting that he seems to be wearing an obsolescent felt hat, showing himself as an ‘old-soldier’.  I can’t make out what other object he has in his lap, but it looks like a tree branch?

 

I have enjoyed viewing these photos of pre war TA(?) soldiers in summer camp, but I do have a question -

what I have noticed is that it seems they wear different, or a variety of uniform & headwear styles -  was there no regulation that determined what the " dress of the day" was when they were quartered in these camps?  Were the soldiers permitted to wear pretty much whatever the wanted to wear?

 

Thanks, Bryan

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

I have enjoyed viewing these photos of pre war TA(?) soldiers in summer camp, but I do have a question -

what I have noticed is that it seems they wear different, or a variety of uniform & headwear styles -  was there no regulation that determined what the " dress of the day" was when they were quartered in these camps?  Were the soldiers permitted to wear pretty much whatever the wanted to wear?

 

Thanks, Bryan

In this case they are regulars of the 1st KRRC (one of several large regiments with four regular battalions).  It was normal for regulars to have Summer Manoeuvres, as that was the only time they got to practice with other battalions at Brigade and sometimes Divisional level.  
 

When the men were ‘stood down’ (dismissed from parade) they could dress in relaxed mode, which meant no regimentation (similar to RN ‘stand easy’ and make-do-and mend?) .  
 

However, civilian dress was not permitted and so the most common choice from their kit bag was the canvas fatigue suit with warm clothing underneath if the weather was inclement. Waistcoats/vests (both terms used but the latter more accurate at the time) were popular because they contained several pockets in which loose change, pipe tobacco etc could be kept.  This latter garment is frequently seen but I’ve not seen it listed in kit issues so it might be the one civilian garment that was permitted, it’s unclear.  In dry weather the issued canvas shoes would often be worn.

 

When parade was ordered, or scheduled (there were written ‘battalion orders’ and ‘company detail’ laying out the routine each day) then soldiers would dress as ordered and form up (parade) at the time and place stated.

Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

  

When the men were ‘stood down’ (dismissed from parade) they could dress in relaxed mode, which meant no regimentation (similar to RN ‘stand easy’ and make-do-and mend?) .  
 

 

I dont wish to get off topic Froggie but the RN was pretty strict with dress, ratings had to be in the "dress of the day" when on ship or shore base,  some Captains were pretty strict in following the Admiralty Instructions. "Make & Mend" was slack, yes, but they had to be in the dress of the day.

As an aside - the day HMS Victoria was rammed by Camperdown during a fleet exercise, was a make & mend afternoon, thus many of the ratings that would normally have been employed below decks were on the upper deck enjoying a very hot afternoon, & thus were saved as it only took 11 minutes for Victoria to go completely under.

 

If they had a "strand easy day" (which was very unusual in the Victorian\Edwardian Navy as the plan was to 'keep them busy constantly") & they were on base\depot they had to be dressed in the rig of the day or the Ships Corporals would have run them into the rattle pretty quickly!

 

Hope you are well& best wishes!

Bryan

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 July , 2020 by RNCVR

[RNCVR]

Getting back to the broad brimmed hat that seated soldier is wearing.  I thought that the brimmed & stetson hats that were quite common with the Colonial Forces in the SA (Boer) War - ie- Australians, New Zealanders & Canadians) had gone out prior to 1WW.  Were they still being worn 'legally' in the Imperial Army?

 

Attached two photos of Canadians during the SA War......

 

Thanks,   Bryan

 

Driver Albert Robinson, C Bty, RCHA prior to departing for South Africa Oct, 1899.

 

These men are Canadian mounted SAC troopers circa 1901-02

Edited 4 July , 2020 by RNCVR

[RNCVR]

Their ammunition cross belts are some what different than those worn by Imperial troops, perhaps you might educate me on their dress pls Froggie!

 

PSAlbert Robinson has quite a story, & more photos, I will eventually get his service up here soon....... but its high summer here now (despite Coronovirus) & I have 5 grandchildren to entertain!!!

 

Thanks,& Best.....

Bryan

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

I dont wish to get off topic Froggie but the RN was pretty strict with dress, ratings had to be in the "dress of the day"when on shioor base,  some Captains were pretty strict in following the Admiralty Instructions. "Make & Mend"was slack, yes, but they had to be in the dress of the day.

As an aside - the day HMS Victoria was rammed by Camperdown during a fleet exercise, was a make & mend afternoon, thus many of the ratings that would normally have been employed below decks were on the upper deck enjoying a very hot afternoon, & thus were saved as it only took 11 minutes for Victoria to go completely under.

 

If they had a "strand easy day" (which was very unusual in the Victorian\Edwardian Navy as the plan was to 'keep them busy constantly") & they were on base\depot they had to be dressed in the rig of the day or the Ships Corporals would have run them into the rattle pretty quickly!

 

Hope you are well& best wishes!

Bryan

 

 

 

 

Thanks Bryan, understood.  My impression is that the RN had a fairly limited number of orders of dress (rigs of the day) compared with a regular soldier of those times.  At annual training camp when not parading (i.e. any kind of ordered activity) then the relaxed dress that you see was permitted.  The men that you don’t see are on fatigue parties, guard, fire picquet, etc. so it is just the stood down men that you see. Various other duties occurred throughout the day, all regulated by bugle or trumpet call, and the soldiers would dress as ordered.  In the mid-afternoon it was often time when close of duties permitted ‘walking-out’.  This required best dress and booking out at the guard tent where appearance (turnout) would be checked.  Men then had to return before Tattoo (6pm) was sounded.

[RNCVR]

PSS - Can you pick out the Trooper in the group shot that looks somewhat like a young Harrison Ford?

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Getting back to the broad brimmed hat that seated soldier is wearing.  I thought that the brimmed & stetson hats that were quite common with the Colonial Forces in the SA (Boer) War - ie- Australians, New Zealanders & Canadians) had gone out prior to 1WW.  Were they still being worn 'legally' in the Imperial Army?

 

Attached two photos of Canadians during the SA War......

 

Thanks,   Bryan

 

Driver Albert Robinson, C Bty, RCHA prior to departing for South Africa Oct, 1899.

 

 

These men are Canadian mounted SAC troopers circa 1901-02

 

The slouch hat was official field dress between the end of the Boer War and the introduction of the service dress peaked forage cap in 1905, at which point it became obsolescent and you might see them worn informally until completely worn out, as explained.

Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thanks Bryan, understood.  My impression is that the RN had a fairly limited number of orders of dress (rigs of the day) compared with a regular soldier of those times.  At annual training camp when not parading (i.e. any kind of ordered activity) then the relaxed dress that you see was permitted.  The men that you don’t see are on fatigue parties, guard, fire picquet, etc. so it is just the stood down men that you see. Various other duties occurred throughout the day, all regulated by bugle or trumpet call, and the soldiers would dress as ordered.  In the mid-afternoon it was often time when close of duties permitted ‘walking-out’.  This required best dress and booking out at the guard tent where appearance (turnout) would be checked.  Men then had to return before Tattoo (6pm) was sounded.

 

 

Yes the RN did have a limited number of orders of dress compared say to the Infantry or Cavalry of the time.

I never knew thy had specially designed uniforms for Indian service. 

 

yes, I have learned a lot from viewing all of the superb PC's that have been posted, its been a very interesting & informative journey! 

The soldier's dress in Patrol tunics & Dress tunics do look very impressive.  Keeping all their kit cleaned must have consumed a fair amount of a soldier's time.

[RNCVR]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The slouch hat was official field dress between the end of the Boer War and the introduction of the service dress peaked forage cap in 1905, at which point it became obsolescent and you might see them worn informally until completely worn out, as explained.

 

 

Thanks Froggie, I was unaware of that, so have learned something else about the pre War Army! 

I dont know if it was legally worn here in Canada pre war, it may have just been worn during the SA campaign.

I have never seen a photo of the Canadian Infantry units wearing this type of hat.

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Their ammunition cross belts are some what different than those worn by Imperial troops, perhaps you might educate me on their dress pls Froggie!

 

PSAlbert Robinson has quite a story, & more photos, I will eventually get his service up here soon....... but its high summer here now (despite Coronovirus) & I have 5 grandchildren to entertain!!!

 

Thanks,& Best.....

Bryan

 

 

They are wearing Bandolier, 50-Rounds, Mounted Infantry, 1897.  These were replaced by the 1902 Bandolier Equipment that was designed for the 5-round clips used with the SMLE.

[RNCVR]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

They are wearing Bandolier, 50-Rounds, Mounted Infantry, 1897.  These were replaced by the 1902 Bandolier Equipment that was designed for the 5-round clips used with the SMLE.

 

 

Thanks, their khaki uniforms - do they compare with the Imperial troops 5  button tunics of the time?  & were puttees normal for that time also?

I thought they were a closer to 1WW time frame.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

 

Thanks Froggie, I was unaware of that, so have learned something else about the pre War Army! 

I dont know if it was legally worn here in Canada pre war, it may have just been worn during the SA campaign.

I have never seen a photo of the Canadian Infantry units wearing this type of hat.

The Canadian infantry pre-war were all militia as you will know, a small part of which was full-time (to provide a framework of permanent staff just as in Britain’s militia), but the bulk were part-time auxiliary soldiers.  As such their dress was slightly different to British regulars (although based on similar regulations) and dependent upon what the Canadian government was willing to spend. Minister Sam Hughes was quite pro-military and he was supported by the PM Borden, but monies were still limited.

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

 

Thanks, their khaki uniforms - do they compare with the Imperial troops 5  button tunics of the time?  & were puttees normal for that time also?

I thought they were a closer to 1WW time frame.

Their khaki is standard British issued 1899 pattern drab serge service dress (same as scarlet ‘frocks’, but made of drab serge).  Puttees were used widely (they had long been the norm in India) for foreign service (away from home) from the 1890s, but only authorised for ‘home establishments’ in 1902.

Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE