Muerrisch Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 38 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: The slouch hat was official field dress between the end of the Boer War and the introduction of the service dress peaked forage cap in 1905, at which point it became obsolescent and you might see them worn informally until completely worn out, as explained. Well, sort of ! The reason why so much variety of headdress is seen in the 1902 onwards group photos is that there was no prescribed headdress as part of SD. AO 8 of 1902 faailed to lay down the law. I believe I have a learned article by Marrion or Fosten or some such expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: Well, sort of ! The reason why so much variety of headdress is seen in the 1902 onwards group photos is that there was no prescribed headdress as part of SD. AO 8 of 1902 faailed to lay down the law. I believe I have a learned article by Marrion or Fosten or some such expert. I’m aware of the confused period, but someone on the forum quoted verbatim a written order stating that the slouch hat was to be worn in the field (it might well have been Joe Sweeney, but I’m not positive). It has stuck firmly in my memory. I think it referred to the headdress within the order as a ‘universal felt hat’, and didn’t use the word ‘slouch’. Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 Thanks for the explanation concerning the Bandoliers, & wearing of puttees Froggie. I knew about puttees being worn on Indian service to protect the lower legs & ankles from snake bites (likely fatal then). The Bandolier info is new to me. Best......Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 9 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Thanks for the explanation concerning the Bandoliers, & wearing of puttees Froggie. I knew about puttees being worn on Indian service to protect the lower legs & ankles from snake bites (likely fatal then). The Bandolier info is new to me. Best......Bryan Glad to help. The 1899 drab frock was an important step in the evolution of the 1902 SD, which latter was in reality a melding together of the 1899 version and the chest pocket features of the OR’s blue patrol jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 I shall attempt to dig out the article. If the felt hat had been the official field hat there appears no need for the khaki Brodrick cover with soft peak ..... essential for field musketry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Muerrisch said: I shall attempt to dig out the article. If the felt hat had been the official field hat there appears no need for the khaki Brodrick cover with soft peak ..... essential for field musketry I have to say this is a bit deja vu. I think you’ll find that this has already been dealt with. The more I think about it the more Joe Sweeney comes to mind, but I recall that others have participated subsequently too. It was covered in VWF also. Edited 4 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 OK 3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: I have to say this is a bit deja vu. I think you’ll find that this has already been dealt with. The more I think about it the more Joe Sweeney comes to mind, but I recall that others have participated subsequently too. It was covered in VWF also. I wont' bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 July , 2020 Share Posted 4 July , 2020 (edited) On 04/07/2020 at 23:50, Muerrisch said: OK I wont' bother. From his post, but I have corrected spelling errors and obvious typos: “This post has one of the better side views of a British Slouch hat (posted by TE) http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=192367&p=1970250 ......here is some info on when the British pattern sealed the Slouch hat in 1901 as "Service Dress headdress, universal". (there had been lots of types in use in the Boer war but I have not looked at those. RACD pattern 5048/1901 (introduction) "First Pattern, A soft felt drab coloured hat, flat crown and sloping sides with broad brim of regular dimensions, dent snap [fastener] at left side for looping up, fitted with corrugated ventilating inside band" The added side notes are " and 2 more" referring to 2 more dents snaps. "Vents holes all round about 1 inch. This was quickly modified by Pattern 5048a/1901 This reduced the numbers of Dent Patent pattern fasteners to 2, one on each side and added the band of worsted lace to match the hat. I haven't done an exhaustive search the RACD patterns. I know there was one more change adding a socket to the hat and then circa 1905/06 these were made obsolete (except volunteers, yeomanry and the TF when formed) with the introduction SD cap in 1905.” NB. The reason it was ‘universal’ headdress is because unlike the Brodrick and cover the slouch hat was also to be worn by Highlanders and Foot Guards. It was to be worn by everyone. That is the crux of the matter. Edited 6 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrisc8 Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 (edited) One that came in the post today ASC Drivers. A link to my other original photos / negs. Edited 7 July , 2020 by morrisc8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 Thanks Froggie for info & photo given in Post 8108. Never seen a RPPC of a Coldstream Guards soldier wearing the Slouch hat, I thought it was just worn by the Colonial Troops during the SA conflict. Best....Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 Regarding ‘slouch’ hats becoming obsolete, weren’t they issued to British troops during 1914/early 1915? I’m sure I’ve seen them issued to AVC and R Fusiliers bound for Salonica and Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, headgardener said: Regarding ‘slouch’ hats becoming obsolete, weren’t they issued to British troops during 1914/early 1915? I’m sure I’ve seen them issued to AVC and R Fusiliers bound for Salonica and Egypt. That was a reissue of a presumably slightly revised pattern. Joe’s reference to obsolescence was in terms of the then hats use for wear with Service Dress in the field, in that for regulars it was replaced by the drab service dress forage cap in the year 1905. The hat continued in use by the auxiliary forces for longer and remained on the inventory of special clothing for Gurkhas and some stations overseas. Of course no one knew then that in a little under a decade the British Army would be embarking on a World War that would require all kinds of climate related clothing and equipment on a scale big enough to equip the largest Army that Britain had ever put into the field. One item reissued under new contracts was the slouch hat. Edited 8 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 Gunner 133533. John Arthur Ibbotson. 392nd Siege Battery. R.G.A. Driver 34890. John Creswell. D/96th Brigade. R.F.A. - R.F.A. group. John Creswell standing far left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 7 July , 2020 Share Posted 7 July , 2020 Gun Layer. A Battery, Honourable Artillery Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 (edited) Super group photo, with lots of interesting detail. The back row dressed typically like men from ‘stable parade’ in shirtsleeves with braces shrugged off. Presence of broom and mop. Man sat on metal basin at front left with currying brush, stirrup irons and snaffle bit. Front central figure with bugle and kitten. Some men in canvas fatigue suit trousers and one in the issue cardigan. A typical New Army hutment in the background, Larkhill or Shoeburyness seem probable as a location. Edited 8 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 The man standing 2nd from R with the mess tin on his head appears to have his braces (possibly his trousers?) on backwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, headgardener said: The man standing 2nd from R with the mess tin on his head appears to have his braces (possibly his trousers?) on backwards! He’s crossed them at the front. Army issue brace suspenders were ‘Y’-shaped and made of thin canvas. Edited 8 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 19 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: He’s crossed them at the front. Army issue brace suspenders were ‘Y’-shaped and made of thin canvas. Ah, yes.... I thought he was wearing the ‘Y’ to the front. Couldn’t understand how he’d manage to button them that way..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 Just now, headgardener said: Ah, yes.... I thought he was wearing the ‘Y’ to the front. Couldn’t understand how he’d manage to button them that way..... The smart Alec has buttoned the front braces on opposite sides for a lark it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: The smart Alec has buttoned the front braces on opposite sides for a lark it seems. Clearly the ‘joker’ of the squad, judging by his headgear. It’s the sort of human touch that I like in photos like this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 July , 2020 Share Posted 8 July , 2020 23 minutes ago, headgardener said: Clearly the ‘joker’ of the squad, judging by his headgear. It’s the sort of human touch that I like in photos like this..... Yes, I agree. The photo has a real sense of an impromptu snapshot in time where an opportunity was taken to photograph the men, probably all accommodated in the hut behind them, in a sort of come-as-you-are gathering. It's a very evocative scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonie and Valmai Holt Posted 12 July , 2020 Share Posted 12 July , 2020 My father was on the Hood but disembarked before the fatal voyage. What are the photos that you refer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 12 July , 2020 Share Posted 12 July , 2020 A nice brothers group photograph showing a member of the Australian Imperial Force, wearing a leather waterproof cap cover (as worn by Motorcyclists and Motor Transport); and a member of the Motor Machine Gun Corps (His cap badge has the white metal "MMG" either covered by the chin strap or broken off) showing Motor Machine Guns shoulder titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 July , 2020 Share Posted 12 July , 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Tonie and Valmai Holt said: My father was on the Hood but disembarked before the fatal voyage. What are the photos that you refer to? What is the number of the post that you are asking about? 17 minutes ago, Sepoy said: A nice brothers group photograph showing a member of the Australian Imperial Force, wearing a leather waterproof cap cover (as worn by Motorcyclists and Motor Transport); and a member of the Motor Machine Gun Corps (His cap badge has the white metal "MMG" either covered by the chin strap or broken off) showing Motor Machine Guns shoulder titles. A very evocative and unusual photo Sepoy, I wonder how many of the four survived the war. Edited 12 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 23 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2020 German soldier serving with 11th Bavarian Division as identified by their unique tin lapel badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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