FROGSMILE Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 1 hour ago, Dragoon said: like this one, note the PWO feathers S/NCO arm badges, which I didn't know until now, are worn on both sleeves above the stripes. Thank you for sharing. Chris It’s because the badge was directly associated with the stripes Chris, in the sense that in theory if stripes were worn on both arms, as they were in SD, then so should the badge be. Oddly, it looks to me as if the arm badge being worn is cloth or bullion, but the image is quite poor so what do you think, is it cloth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: "4th March, 1916" "Percy" .640 Coy. 22nd Motor Ambulance Convoy. Grove Park. Feb.1916 Photo. Kenneth Nicol & Co. 58 Pall Mall. S.W. Grove Park was in Camberwell, Surrey I think. My grandparents lived there. There was quite a large TF Drill Hall there. Edited 30 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Grove Park was in Camberwell, Surrey I think. My grandparents lived there. Lewisham / Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Lewisham / Lee. Yes, Lewisham is just up the road. It was also home for the 1st Surrey Rifles: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/74d20799-276a-412a-8e77-f7ef91bfabbb Edited 30 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Oddly, it looks to me as if the arm badge being worn is cloth or bullion, but the image is quite poor so what do you think, is it cloth? Yes, It does look to be cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 April , 2020 Share Posted 30 April , 2020 2 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Yes, It does look to be cloth. I’ve been trying to find an image of a surviving example but no luck so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: It’s because the badge was directly associated with the stripes Chris, in the sense that in theory if stripes were worn on both arms, as they were in SD, then so should the badge be. Oddly, it looks to me as if the arm badge being worn is cloth or bullion, but the image is quite poor so what do you think, is it cloth? Yes, that makes sense, thank you, and yes, they appear to be cloth, I've not seen cloth ones before for this Regiment, I must check my cavalry arm badge books. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dragoon said: Yes, that makes sense, thank you, and yes, they appear to be cloth, I've not seen cloth ones before for this Regiment, I must check my cavalry arm badge books. Chris I’ve been looking for an image of a cloth example too Chris, but no luck so far. They wouldn’t have survived particularly well unless unused and of course the situation is hampered because so many different regiments also used the simple PofW feathers in one form or another. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 R.H.A. T.F. - Five point stars, Bugler, Wheeler, and Signaller trade badges on show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 13 hours ago, GWF1967 said: 6th (Rifle) Battalion, King's Liverpool. T.F. Any idea why these men are wearing their lanyards on the right shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, GWF1967 said: R.H.A. T.F. - Five point stars, Bugler, Wheeler, and Signaller trade badges on show. Super photo, the RA (all branches) and RE had Trumpeters and a unique badge that is sadly no longer issued. It had a sprig of laurel running through the centre vertically. See uppermost badge enclosed. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: Super photo, the RA (all branches) and RE had Trumpeters and a unique badge that is sadly no longer issued. It had a sprig of laurel running through the centre vertically. See uppermost badge enclosed. Many thanks, glad you liked it. - Looking and learning! Any ideas on the right shoulder lanyard wear in post #7785, is this just an affectation? I have a postcard showing a group of three A.S.C. Remounts, one of whom also “dresses to the right”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 10 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Many thanks, glad you liked it. - Looking and learning! Any ideas on the right shoulder lanyard wear in post #7785, is this just an affectation? I have a postcard showing a group of three A.S.C. Remounts, one of whom also “dresses to the right”. It’s almost certainly a unit affectation. It went on the shoulder ‘nearest’ which ever chest pocket they were told to stow their clasp knives. After the war the RA swapped to that shoulder ostensibly to avoid soiling their whitened lanyards when sloping arms, as well as another reason that escapes me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, GWF1967 said: R.H.A. T.F. - Five point stars, Bugler, Wheeler, and Signaller trade badges on show. I like this image a lot. The cheeky trumpeter may be just out of boy service. Is that a Brodrick or has he reversed his headdress? In addition to the unique trumpeter badge, the RA band had the lyre uncrowned, also a one-off. The members were called musicians, not bandsmen, and paid 3d more than the bandsmen of the RE, who in turn were 1d better off than those of the Foot Guards and 2d more than the line. The RE had buglers as well as trumpeters, depending on role. Oddly, they were paid equally, although the trumpeter was probably required to master the bugle for mounted calls. Edited 1 May , 2020 by Muerrisch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) I think that the trumpeter has an SD forage cap back to front as a jape. There’s no sign of a flap that we would expect to see if a Brodrick and given the others wear of SD caps in the group that seems more likely. At first I thought he might have the mouth piece of a bugle in his other hand but on closer scrutiny I suspect that it’s a smoker’s pipe. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I think that the trumpeter has an SD forage cap back to front as a jape. There’s no sign of a flap that we would expect to see and given the others wear of SD caps in the group that seems more likely. At first I thought he might have the mouth piece of a bugle in his other hand but on closer scrutiny I suspect that it’s a smoker’s pipe. Correct on both counts. There are three pipes on show. 45 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: I like this image a lot. The cheeky trumpeter may be just out of boy service. Is that a Brodrick or has he reversed his headdress? In addition to the unique trumpeter badge, the RA band had the lyre uncrowned, also a one-off. The members were called musicians, not bandsmen, and paid 3d more than the bandsmen of the RE, who in turn were 1d better off than those of the Foot Guards and 2d more than the line. The RE had buglers as well as trumpeters, depending on role. Oddly, they were paid equally, although the trumpeter was probably required to master the bugle for mounted calls. Many thanks for the additional information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GWF1967 said: Correct on both counts. There are three pipes on show. Pipes were still popular then, especially among the older soldiers. Not needing papers was considered an advantage in the field. Several of the men including the trumpeter are wearing strapped jodhpurs which along with spur chains and the wheeler suggests a unit such as a bridging train. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 I didn't know the RA had bridging trains. Are we discussing the same photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: I didn't know the RA had bridging trains. Are we discussing the same photo? No I became inadvertently fixated on your mention of RE trumpeters and buglers and bands and rates of pay, nothing to do with subject photo of course. My original response about the badge recognised the RA provenance quoted by the OP. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 It happens to us all in time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 15 minutes ago, Muerrisch said: It happens to us all in time! It’s been a long day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 Dvr. Frederick Harold Dawson. T/1178 - 470668. 1/3rd. (528) Durham Field Coy. Royal Engineers. B. 1896. Darlington. Died. No.4 Casualty Clearing Station. 8th Feb. 1917. Aged. 21. Buried at Varennes Military Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 William Trolley. 10969. West Yorkshire Regt? Served overseas as Sapper. 196491 - WR 28045. Royal Engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 Yes his cap badge is PofW Own (West Yorkshire) Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2020 Share Posted 1 May , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GWF1967 said: Dvr. Frederick Harold Dawson. T/1178 - 470668. 1/3rd. (528) Durham Field Coy. Royal Engineers. B. 1896. Darlington. Died. No.4 Casualty Clearing Station. 8th Feb. 1917. Aged. 21. Buried at Varennes Military Cemetery. Such a young looking lad, like so many he died before he’d really lived. Edited 1 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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