FROGSMILE Posted 10 May , 2020 Share Posted 10 May , 2020 Another rare image Toby. I do hope that a book will be published one day, as you know undress has hitherto been almost entirely overlooked apart from the useful but modest “cut of the cloth” series of articles published in the 1980s Military Modelling periodical. It’s especially interesting to see a relatively good view of the Rifle Brigades unique variant of striped pagri/puggaree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 22 May , 2020 Share Posted 22 May , 2020 Challenge Cup winners, "XXth Brigade R.F.A" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 ASC Types, Postmarked 1914. Note the use of MkI SMLES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 "Us at Summer Camp 1914" Unsent postcard of an unkown RAMC unit. I like the neck curtains, note the unusual fittings on the "1903" style belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 Thank you for posting Toby. It’s interesting that typically the RAMC are still wearing buff leather waist belts from Slade-Wallace equipment as late as 1914, although a small number have the brown leather belt from the 1903 bandolier set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 What continues to amaze me is that you are able to pick out these small, or somewhat minor details in their uniforms Froggie, but I assume these really assist in dating the photos. & some ofthe photos arenot that clear or sharp. Similar to RN RPPCs, but so much more small (to me a novice at Army) details. Best....Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RNCVR said: What continues to amaze me is that you are able to pick out these small, or somewhat minor details in their uniforms Froggie, but I assume these really assist in dating the photos. & some ofthe photos arenot that clear or sharp. Similar to RN RPPCs, but so much more small (to me a novice at Army) details. Best....Bryan Yes you’re right Bryan, it’s the details that are crucial in dating the photos. I think the RN equivalents can be harder to date, as there were seemingly less items to wear in terms of on the body equipment and so less to go on. Edited 23 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Thank you for posting Toby. It’s interesting that typically the RAMC are still wearing buff leather waist belts from Slade-Wallace equipment as late as 1914, although a small number have the brown leather belt from the 1903 bandolier set. Yes indeed, what interests me further are the pairs of brace attachments on the "03" brown belts, hinting that some form of strap or braces are worn with it. Perhaps, for an unofficial method of attachment of the 1903 Greatcoat Carrier. This would not usually be possible as the loops, for the hooks of the GC Carrier, are on the cartridge pockets.... And being RAMC they would not wear the cartridge pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 May , 2020 Share Posted 23 May , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toby Brayley said: Yes indeed, what interests me further are the pairs of brace attachments on the "03" brown belts, hinting that some form of strap or braces are worn with it. Perhaps, for an unofficial method of attachment of the 1903 Greatcoat Carrier. This would not usually be possible as the loops, for the hooks of the GC Carrier, are on the cartridge pockets.... And being RAMC they would not wear the cartridge pockets. I’m wondering if they might have worn the front leather pockets, one medical type each side, and carried in them a first aid kit or a couple of extra field dressings, especially in the largish medical pouch (see below). The TF RAMC units origins were as Bearer Sections attached to VF infantry companies, so they were often equipped similarly to infantry, but without ammunition as you say. They did however used to have a short sword that was later replaced with the 07 bayonet. The equipment was probably the belt, and greatcoat carrier attached by hooks at the front to an ammunition pouch on each side and at rear centre to the mess tin cover. In addition a canteen water, bayonet as mentioned, and a haversack. Basically a simple skeleton order minus the bandolier and any extra ammunition pouch on the front of the belt. The overall look would have been not unlike the 1914 leather equipment when worn by RAMC Orderlies as seen in the Imperial War Museum photos below. Edited 23 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Postcard sent 28th.OCT. 1914 from Avonmouth by Ernest William CHIVRALL. Can anyone say where was this photo was taken, please? What does this mean: Do not forget the first letter after the break. postmark 28 OCT 14 Addressed to Miss G. Vale, 62 Cambria Road, Camberwell, London S.E. Avonmouth Dearest Gert I am now snatching a few moments respite before we embark. We arrived here at 10 last night as the bus I was in broke down. We start to get aboard at 8 am this morning & I will write you a nice long letter from the boat in between the times I am feeding the fishes. Do not forget the first letter after the break. I am feeling fairly well though dirty. Will let you know the address in my next. So Goodbye & Cheer up Fondest Love Ernie. According to his records on FMPast & Ancestry: Ernie is Corporal Ernest William Chivrall, M.S.*1877 Company:WO 329 Royal Army Service Corps (MT). *Mechanical Specialist He was born 11th. Oct.1891 in the St Olave, Southwark, district. His trade was Turner & Fitter. He had previously served in the 18th. City of London Regt., leaving when time expired. He attested in Camberwell 10th. Aug.1914, & was sent to Aldershot. He left for Rouen by the SS Trevethoe 28th. Oct. 1914 He served to 12th. March 1919, finally in Germany. He had leave and married Gertrude 11th. Feb. 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 Interesting, that - almost looks like a coded message, doesn't it e.g. the first letter of the word after a break of some sort in the text or writing could indicate where he was/was going? To get round censors maybe? Just a thought (and probably not a very helpful one, but hey). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 2 hours ago, Kath said: Nice photo! Is it my eyes, or is the chap seated (or kneeling), third from right, South Irish Horse? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 3 hours ago, Dragoon said: Nice photo! Is it my eyes, or is the chap seated (or kneeling), third from right, South Irish Horse? Chris To my eyes, they are all members of the Army Service Corps. The man who catches my attention is the one with "IT" on his cap! Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 8 minutes ago, Sepoy said: To my eyes, they are all members of the Army Service Corps. The man who catches my attention is the one with "IT" on his cap! Sepoy Just caught my eye, being the shape of a shamrock, bit more of a zoom its the flash, as I can see a crown. Yes, IT?? Also he, and the other chap have painted, or chalked stripes on their kit? Must be an in-house joke or something? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 2 June , 2020 Share Posted 2 June , 2020 From their dirty hands & overalls and mix of dress, they seem to be in a workshop. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin D Posted 4 June , 2020 Share Posted 4 June , 2020 W I am trying to find out a bit more about the uniform? Can't seem to place it anywhere or to a particular area of the army? Any help is most appreciated Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 4 June , 2020 Share Posted 4 June , 2020 On 02/06/2020 at 19:17, Dragoon said: IT?? Also he, and the other chap have painted, or chalked stripes on their kit? IT = Inland (Water) Transport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 June , 2020 Share Posted 4 June , 2020 41 minutes ago, Kath said: IT = Inland (Water) Transport? That seems a logical possibility Kath. Many in the photo are wearing visibly dirty work suits of a kind an engine mechanic wore before the overalls idea was imported from America. Perhaps they are all marine engine workers on the inland transport barges or their tugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 4 June , 2020 Share Posted 4 June , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Martin D said: W I am trying to find out a bit more about the uniform? Can't seem to place it anywhere or to a particular area of the army? Any help is most appreciated Martin An interesting uniform, but not I think British, as the cut and also cuff decorations of the jacket, the type of Sam Browne belt, and the white pennant attached to his shoulder bear no relation to British Imperial practice. There are however, two clues, in that he wears Stohwasser gaiters and there’s a type of slouch hat sometimes called a campaign hat or ‘lemon squeezer’ on the table beside him. That type of headdress was favoured by New Zealand forces, as well as the Americans, albeit with different features. The NZ type usually had a pagri/puggaree. Australia placed a large contract for Stohwasser gaiters (the family who patented them became millionaires) but I’m not sure if NZ did. All-in-all it is definitely a uniform of an auxiliary force of some kind and these were most commonly related to home defence by citizen soldiers. It’s certainly from around the time of WW1. Are you able to associate the photo with a place? Before the VTC were created there were a number of auxiliary units set up locally in the larger cities who initially made up their own uniforms. Perhaps that was also the case in the dominions, but I don’t know. Edited 4 June , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 Well outside my usual sphere but for less than £1, I couldn't resist. Sent 20th September 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 Great! He won't need any rations during the wars of movement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 I wonder how long he survived the War? My son in law speaks & reads German. I have sent a shot of the reverse of the card to him, see what he comes back with. But it looks like old German to me, he may not be able to read it & that handwriting could be difficult to read. Thanks for posting, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 No luck unfortunately, he says: " its written in the Sutlerin script, I can make out greetings but thats about it." Thats unfortunate, would have liked to see what he wrote! Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 4 hours ago, Toby Brayley said: Well outside my usual sphere but for less than £1, I couldn't resist. Sent 20th September 1914. A well grown lad! If you post in the German postcard thread you may find someone who can decipher the writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 9 June , 2020 Share Posted 9 June , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GWF1967 said: If you post in the German postcard thread you may find someone who can decipher the writing. 1 hour ago, RNCVR said: Thats unfortunate, would have liked to see what he wrote! Best...Bryan Thank you both, will head there now! Edited 9 June , 2020 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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