RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) Very nice photos Lucy. Frank Bennett is a SG1 - Seaman Gunner 1st class & wears either the NGS medal or the AGS medal , the ribbons of both medals are very similar (different colours) but with orthochromatic film they how up similar. If NGS the clasp\bar would be Persian Gulf 1909-14, & if AGS clasp likely Somaliland 1908-10. Best wishes! Bryan Edited 5 May , 2020 by RNCVR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 26 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Very nice photos Lucy. Frank Bennett is a SG1 - Seaman Gunner 1st class & wears either the NGS medal or the AGS medal , the ribbons of both medals are very similar (different colours) but with orthochromatic film they how up similar. If NGS the clasp\bar would be Persian Gulf 1909-14, & if AGS clasp likely Somaliland 1908-10. Best wishes! Bryan Hello Bryan, I'm guessing that Frank Bennett was a shipmate of my Grandad (226878 Arthur Thomas Harding) from his pre-war days on HMS Fox in the Persian Gulf. Grandad got the G.S. medal with the Persian Gulf bar so I think Frank's medal is probably the same. Here's a picture of Arthur with his then fiancée Florence (my Gran of course) which nicely shows his G.S. medal, which I have, along with his others and his little Battle of Jutland commemorative medalion. I think Frank and Arthur stayed in contact all their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) Sure could be Lucy, both on HMS Fox for the Persian Gulf campaign. Could try to check Frank's ON, they may have come in around the same time (pre 1908). If you get Frank's ADM 188 from one of the Ancestry sites (think its free now) you could compare their ships, pehaps they served together again. Both being SG rates its possible they attended gunnery school together as well. If that is you in yr avatar I can see a resemblance between Florence & yourself! Best.... Bryan PS - appears as if Florence is wearing a Boatswain's chain around her neck, same as Arthur! Edited 5 May , 2020 by RNCVR . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 AB Arthur HARDING is on the HMS FOX roll for the NGS Persian Gulf but there is no F BENNETT on the FOX roll, only SC and T BENNETT, both stokers, and an RMLI Pte G BENNETT. Perhaps he was on another ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 Possible Horatio, think several ships qualified, would have to check BB&M. Key is to get Frank's ADM 188 then we will know for certain. Best...Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 33 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Sure could be Lucy, both on HMS Fox for the Persian Gulf campaign. Could try to check Frank's ON, they may have come in around the same time (pre 1908). If you get Frank's ADM 188 from one of the Ancestry sites (think its free now) you could compare their ships, pehaps they served together again. Both being SG rates its possible they attended gunnery school together as well. If that is you in yr avatar I can see a resemblance between Florence & yourself! Best.... Bryan PS - appears as if Florence is wearing a Boatswain's chain around her neck, same as Arthur! I must try to dig into Frank's history properly. One of those things that I haven't got around to doing yet! I'd often wondered about Florence's chain. Stupid really it was quite literally staring me in the face! You're quite wrong about my avatar. It is in fact my other Grandma who is on this postcard, together with two of her future sister-in laws, I think. My older sister was the spitting image of our Grandmother, I tend to take after the Harding side I like to think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 Have checked every ship on the roll and I can find no F BENNETT (seaman rating). Perhaps he enlisted under another forename. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 While we're on the Naval side of things chaps, this photo/postcard was in the Harding family album. Absolutely no idea who they are, but were obviously known to my Grandmother in some way. The uniform looks vaguely pre Great War to me somehow. Be grateful if you could date it for me (and tell me anything else about it of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 6 minutes ago, horatio2 said: Have checked every ship on the roll and I can find no F BENNETT (seaman rating). Perhaps he enlisted under another forename. Is there any access to the crew lists on Bellerophon ? Perhaps I've mis identified the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) Generally speaking, there are no such things as complete "crew lists" for RN ships. Edited 5 May , 2020 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) While we're on the Naval side of things chaps, this photo/postcard was in the Harding family album. Absolutely no idea who they are, but were obviously known to my Grandmother in some way. The uniform looks vaguely pre Great War to me somehow. Be grateful if you could date it for me (and tell me anything else about it of course). Jane, he is a PO1 (Petty Officer 1st class), & his uniform fits the 1WW period. His rate badge, if he had one, would be worn on his right sleeve which is not visible in the photo. I feel the key with Frank Bennett is to check out his ADM 188. but I dont know my way around those ancestry sites so perhaps someone who does might be able to pull up Frank's File. Best...Bryan Edited 5 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 I must try to dig into Frank's history properly. One of those things that I haven't got around to doing yet! I'd often wondered about Florence's chain. Stupid really it was quite literally staring me in the face! You're quite wrong about my avatar. It is in fact my other Grandma who is on this postcard, together with two of her future sister-in laws, I think. My older sister was the spitting image of our Grandmother, I tend to take after the Harding side I like to think! Yes Jane excellent idea. Were these ladies dressed for parts in some kind of play or something? Love the outfits! You certainly have some interesting & varied RPPC's,unfortunate they are unable to tell us much of anything about the subjects!!! Best....Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 Grovelling apologies guys. The man in the picture is J 3656 Francis George Smale. Arthur and Francis were on HMS Fox together in the Persian Gulf. Must start reading the backs of the postcards properly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lucycutler said: Perhaps I've mis identified the man. If so the hunt stops here! Assuming BENNETT is correct and a forename of Frank or Francis, ADM 188 throws up some thirty ratings (of all branches) who enlisted before 1914. A quick check of seamen reveals none who has BELLEROPHON (Billy Ruffian) on his record. Wrong identity looking more likely. P.S. BINGO! Edited 5 May , 2020 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 24 minutes ago, RNCVR said: Were these ladies dressed for parts in some kind of play or something? Love the outfits! Best....Bryan I have no Idea Bryan. I know that it wasn't uncommon for Girlfriends and Wives to dress up in their man's uniform for fun, and have a photo taken to give to them. This seems to take it to another level though. Not sure what the other two girls are wearing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, lucycutler said: Arthur and Francis were on HMS Fox together in the Persian Gulf. Indeed they were. NGS Medal roll confirms. He served in BILLY RUFFIAN from 1913 to 1919 as AB, LS and PO. Edited 5 May , 2020 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, lucycutler said: I have no Idea Bryan. I know that it wasn't uncommon for Girlfriends and Wives to dress up in their man's uniform for fun, and have a photo taken to give to them. This seems to take it to another level though. Not sure what the other two girls are wearing! It looks like they might have been performing in Music Hall, the other two girls perhaps doing Annie Get your Gun. And your relative imitating Vesta Tilley. The latter was very popular and much copied. She often sang a song in Army uniform, and was so popular that she was asked to take part in recruiting drives. Edited 5 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 Thats great, mystery solved! Real name certainly helps much! Thanks Horatio! Best .... Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 4 minutes ago, lucycutler said: I have no Idea Bryan. I know that it wasn't uncommon for Girlfriends and Wives to dress up in their man's uniform for fun, and have a photo taken to give to them. This seems to take it to another level though. Not sure what the other two girls are wearing! Yes indeed Lucy, I have a couple of RPPC's with girls dressed in their sweetheart's uniform, will dig out & post some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucycutler Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 4 minutes ago, horatio2 said: Indee they were. NGS Medal roll confirms. He served in BILLY RUFFIAN from 1913 to 1919 as AB, LS and PO. Loving the Billy Ruffian nick name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: perhaps doing Annie Get your Gun A bit early for this 1946 book and musical, but I would not like to meet the one on the left on a dark night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: It looks like they might have been performing in Music Hall, the other two girls perhaps doing Annie Get your Gun. And your relative imitating Vesta Tilley. Yes, my thoughts also, an American 'feel' to the RPPC. I was thinking of "La fanciulla del West" ('The Girl of the West')- Puccini opera, conducted by Toscanini at the Met debut, 1910, (only a classical musician would understand!) & useless info I know !!! But best anyway.... Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) Yes, clearly not Annie Get your Gun, but perhaps something like it. The rifle and bearskin, and cowboy hats with campaign shirts, all follow a theme. Edited 5 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 (edited) Agree Froggie, dont you wish they could talk!!!! Vesta Tilley a new one to me, thanks for the photos! Best & stay safe all, Bryan Edited 5 May , 2020 by RNCVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 5 May , 2020 Share Posted 5 May , 2020 19 minutes ago, lucycutler said: Loving the Billy Ruffian nick name Billy Ruffian (much earlier ship than Horatio mentions) took Napoleon into Exile after Waterloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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