mandy hall Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 1911 census Michael McCormick age 34 occupation general labourer industry or service with which worker connected with builder and constructor I think this says born Flint North Wales living with his wife Mary Jane address 1 Howard Place Littleborough Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Salfordian, The CWS/Joinery links well with the shopfitting link, a dairy worker in the 1911 census could have changed jobs by 1914/1915 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollofhonour Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I am gradually adding the 1911 information to the web page. Would 18 year olds be in the Oddfellows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I think this must be just the shop fitters. The 49 of them is just too much of coincidence and the memorial description is close enough - even though the BBC website article says there are 60 names! There just must have been some career changes along the way. I don't see the logic of a mixed memorial. It would seem that the various constituent groups making up the 900 names on the main CWS memorial had their own individual workplace memorials. No doubt someone is now going to produce some information that rubbishes the above totally! I look forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 William Arthur Deakin has a few papers on Ancestry but lists only his occupation as a clerk doesnt state where though. Ralph. And he's on this memorial too. Manchester, Cheetham, Waterloo Road, St.John’s Church Salfordian, The CWS/Joinery links well with the shopfitting link, a dairy worker in the 1911 census could have changed jobs by 1914/1915 ? The annoying thing is that we are so tantalisingly close ! Living in Manchester I saw the BBC and ITV regional reports on this with close ups of the memorial and NO clues !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy hall Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 another 1 for you 1911 census Joseph Henry Mooney age 27 occupation french polisher industry or service with which worker is connected shopfitting born Manchester living with wife Anne address 8 Birchenhall St Moston Manchester Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I think we are there not just close. These 49 names must be on the main CWS memorial given the large number of them confirmed as in the CWS memorial book and several of them have been confirmed as joiners/woodworkers with one positively confimed as working for the CWS Shopfitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I don't think we've done bad within 36 hours !!! I understood that there is a substantial CWS archive, albeit not online, which hopefully should confirm our thoughts - it would be nice to be able to sign this one off ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 another 1 for you 1911 census Joseph Henry Mooney age 27 occupation french polisher industry or service with which worker is connected shopfitting Mandy Well done Mandy. Another shopfitter confirmed. Yes, a terrific "cooperative" effort from the Pals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 THE C.W.S. VERE STREET, SALFORD 5. JOINERY AND SHOPFITTING WORKSHOPS. Could this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 This was on a Salford Forum. Note the last line in Bold. According to the report from the scrapyard the memorial had been at the yard for well over a decade. I KEEP LOOKING WITH INTEREST AT SALFORD INTERNET SITES, HOPING TO OBSERVE THE C.W.S. VERE STREET, SALFORD 5. JOINERY AND SHOPFITTING WORKSHOPS. AS AN ECCLES LAD BORN AND BRED, I SERVED MY INDENTURED APPRENTISHIP AS A JOINER AT THE C.W.S. STARTING IN 1954 FOR 6 FULL YEARS UNTIL 1960. THE C.W.S. WAS BY FAR AND REPUTATION THEN THE VERY BEST JOINERY AND SHOPFITTING WORKSHOP IN THE WHOLE NORTH WEST OF ENGLAND, IF NOT IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY. ITS REPUTATION FOR ITS QUALITY WORK,WENT BEFORE IT. TO BECOME A APPRENTICE AT THE C.W.S.YOU WERE VERY LUCKY. ONE WAS VERY PRIVILEGED TO OBTAIN EMPLOYMENT, USUALLY THEN ONLY APPROX 6 APPRENTISHIPS WERE STARTED EACH YEAR,WITH A LONG WAITING LIST,OF POTENTIAL BUDDING YOUNG JOINERS. I BELIEVED THAT WITH ALL THE EMPLOYEES WHO WORKED THERE OVER THE YEARS, AND AS A MAJOR LOCAL EMPLOYER IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RESERECTED WITH INTEREST ON A WEB SITE, AND I WOULD HAVE FOUND SOME HISTORIC REFERENCE. BASED ON THE EDGE OF THE SALFORD DOCK COMPLEX, OFF ECCLES NEW ROAD,IT WAS A PLACE OF SKILLED SELF SUFFICIENCY. A HIVE OF ACTIVITY, A LARGE INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. THE MAIN OFFICES CONTAINED THE MANAGEMENT TEAM AND ADMINISTATION,THE ARCHITECTS AND PLANNERS, THE ESTIMATORS AND DRAUGHTSMAN. ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE HOUSED IN THE RELATIVELY MODERN 2 STOREY OFFICE BLOCK, THIS WAS ADJACANT TO THE SITE ENTRANCE GATE,AT THE BOTTOM OF VERE STREET, OFF ECCLES NEW ROAD. ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE GATE WAS,THE GENERAL BUILDING YARD,THE PLUMBERS AND BUILDERS MAINTENANCE WORKSHOPS. ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE OFFICES WAS THE JOINERY WORKSHOPS.THIS COMPRISED THE BOTTOM SHOP AND THE REAR TOP UPSTAIRS WORKSHOP ON THE FIRST FLOOR. APPROX 250 STAFF WORKED HERE IN THE SHOPFITTING DEPARTMENT. THESE COMPRISED JOINERS, SETTER'S OUT'S. MARKERS IN, MACHINISTS, FRENCH POLISHERS, PAINTERS, TIMBER CARRIERS AND ENGINEERS. APPROX 100 JOINERS WORKED DOWNSTAIRS, AND APPROX 50 UPSTAIRS,ALL WORKING AT LINES OF 12 FOOT LONG WOODEN JOINERS BENCHES. ALL THE WORK WAS BESPOKE, PURPOSE MADE FOR THE EXTENSIVE MASSIVE C.W.S. NATIONAL ORGANISATION. ALL WORK WAS THEN ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY IN HARDWOOD, APPROX 5% OF ITEMS WERE MADE IN SOFTWOOD. SPECIALIST, RARE, EXPENSIVE IMPORTED HARDWOOD TIMBERS, TEAK,OAK, MAHOGANY,IROKO, WALNUT ALL ARRIVING EITHER BY ROAD OR IN RAILWAY WAGONS SHUNTED ONTO THE SITE ON THE INTERNAL RAILWAY SYSTEM WHICH EXTENDED OUT ON TO THE DOCK COMPLEX,BEYOND THE REAR FENCE. DELIVERED BY STEAM TRAIN OFTEN STRAIGHT FROM THE INCOMING SHIPS ON THE DOCK BERTHS. ENGLISH HARDWOODS ENGLISH OAK, BEECH AND SYCAMORE. SOLID TIMBER NOW SELDOM SEEN, THE MORAL OF THE C.W.S. WAS QUALITY BEFORE QUANTITY, EVERYTHING WAS DESIGNED AND PURPOSE MADE. THE C.W.S. WAS ONE OF THE LARGEST RETAIL SHOPPING ORGANISATIONS EXTENDING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ON A NATIONAL BASIS.IT HAD SHOPS IN EVERY TOWN, IT HAD LOCAL OFFICES, AND MANY SPECIALIST FACTORY PREMISES. WE PROVIDED ALL THE SHOPFRONTS AND INTERIORS FOR EVERY TYPE OF SHOP. GROCERS, BUTCHERS, COBBLERS, FURNITURE SHOPS, DRY CLEANERS,ALL THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF SHOPS YOU USED TO FIND ON THE HIGH STREET IN EVERY TOWN, ALL WERE OWNED BY THE LOCAL C.W.S. SOCIETY. EVERY TYPE OF FACTORY PREMISES AND OFFICES WERE INCLUDED ON THE C.W.S. ESTATE. THEY HAD THEIR OWN DAIRY, THEY MANUFACTURED BUTTER AND MARGARINE, SOAP, SHOES, FURNITURE, IN FACT EVERY PRODUCT YOU CAN NAME. THEY HAD FACTORIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO MAKE ALL AND EVERY PRODUCT NEEDED, EVEN MAKING COFFINS, BICYCLES, BEDS, KIDDIES PRAMS AND T.V.,S. EVERY DAY WAS DIFFERENT,EVERY JOB WAS DIFFERENT,ALL THE ITEMS HAD TO BE DESIGNED, MADE,CONSTRUCTED AND FINISHED, OFTEN LARGE ITEMS WHICH HAD TO BE PREFABRICATED,THEN DISMANTLED AGAIN, FOR HANDLING, ACCESS AND TRANSPORTATION, AND DELIVERY. SENT OUT ON C.W.S. TRANSPORT ACCOMPANIED BY SPECIALIST TEAMS OF SHOPFITTERS WHO REGULARLY TRAVELLED TO ALL PARTS OF THE COUNTRY ONLY RETURNING WHEN THE JOB WAS COMPLETED OFTEN ON A SCHEDULED SHOP OPENING DATE. TO DATE I HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED NOT TO FIND ANY PRESERVED PICTURES,TO BRING BACK MEMORIES,OR FIND A LIST OF EMPLOYEES WHO HAVE SURVIVED. I KNOW I AM NOT QUITE MYSELF THE LAST SURVIVOR AS I KNOW OF AT LEAST 6 OTHER EMPLOYEES WHO ARE STILL ABOUT IN MANCHESTER AND SALFORD. KEITH INGHAM. KEN COLTAS. ROY PROCTOR. JOHN EVANS. ARTHUR WALKER, DENNIS BEAN. ALL NOW AT LEAST 70 YEARS YOUNG OR OVER. HOW MANY OTHERS ARE STILL OUT THEIR? bargainhunterroy@aol.com ALL THE LADS I NAMED ABOVE WERE THE LADS I ORIGINALLY WORKED WITH DURING THE PERIOD 1954-1960,AS A RESULT OF THESE WRITINGS, I HAVE RECEIVED COMMUNICATIONS, WHICH HAVE LISTED OTHER NAMES, FOR THE CHAPS WHO FOLLOWED IN MY FOOTSTEPS, UNTILL THE DEMISE OF VERE STREET IN 1986 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy hall Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 another joiner 1911 Henry Newhall age 20 occupation joiner industry or service with which worker is connected house building born Altrincham Cheshire living with parents Thomas and Elizabeth Newhall fathers occupation gardener domestic address 3 Ellesmere Place Altrincham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Hi Salfordian, Great minds, I am a member of the Salford forums and have asked the poster of the message you quote if he remembers the memorial being at Vere St. Will let you know when he posts. Regards, Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I don't think we've done bad within 36 hours !!! A real "cooperative" Forum effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 YES !!! CWS BUILDINGS AND SHOPFITTINGS DEPT (LOST) UKNIWM Ref: 45361 Physical Description RECTANGULAR BRONZE PLAQUE BORDERS DECORATED WITH SWAGS AND LAURELS AT TOP AND SIDES Wars Commemorated & People Remembered War FIRST WORLD WAR Total names on memorial: 0 Served & Returned 0 Died 49 Is this an exact count? Not known How are the names ordered? Not known What information is listed on the memorial? surname, decorations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 The fascinating description of the shopfitters working in the 50's would be very little changed from 1914, I am sure. It makes you sad to think of this lost world when quality and craftmanship were so valued. I am quite convinced that memorial 45361 "was lost but now is found". One thing that needs clarifying is the Clitheroe connection - I wonder if there was a satellite workshop there - perhaps the french polishers or some such specialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Some one PLEASE tell me they think I have got it and we have solved the riddle !!! YES !!! CWS BUILDINGS AND SHOPFITTINGS DEPT (LOST) UKNIWM Ref: 45361 Physical Description RECTANGULAR BRONZE PLAQUE BORDERS DECORATED WITH SWAGS AND LAURELS AT TOP AND SIDES Wars Commemorated & People Remembered War FIRST WORLD WAR Total names on memorial: 0 Served & Returned 0 Died 49 Is this an exact count? Not known How are the names ordered? Not known What information is listed on the memorial? surname, decorations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfaulder Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Presumably one of you who have done all the work will point the BBC etc to this thread? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Phew. Was it my excitement at possibly finding this that lead to the GWF crashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Some one PLEASE tell me they think I have got it and we have solved the riddle !!! I'm convinced! Presumably one of you who have done all the work will point the BBC etc to this thread? Can we hand this to our "maestro" Ian. He kept the thread going with his gentle encouragement. Regards, Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Presumably one of you who have done all the work will point the BBC etc to this thread? David Sadly not. I've phoned the Director General and taken full credit. Watch out for me on the news. But seriously, well done the GWF detectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salfordian Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I have emailed the War Memorial Trust. I think we are all fab on the GWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoons Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I have been following this with interest but had nothing to add (out of my area of expertise). Congrats to all - great job! \Spoons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 Guys, I took the liberty of phoning Radio Manchester when I was confident that we had the answer to stake a claim on behalf of the GWF. I talked to the news desk and they said that they would pass on the details to the relevant reporter. In the way of these things , we may have been beaten to it by a n other or someone who phoned the tele people may take precedence. Any Manchester based Pal please feel free to get in contact with the media as well. We might see you on TV! Again well done to all the contributors. A lot of fun was had but the main point of this was it allowed us to say again :- We will Remember them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 26 October , 2009 Share Posted 26 October , 2009 I would just like to add a well done to June who had the bright idea of looking at the UKNIWM list which indicated that this particular memorial was missing. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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