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Remembered Today:

Home for battered memorial sought


Medic7922
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Hi Pals,

I have received a response from Roy from the Salford Forum. He has given me permission to post his answer to whether he remembers seeing the memorial at the Vere St works.

Regards,

Garry

Garry. I think Vere Street is on Eccles New Road (nr Langworthy Rd) on Look North West tonight they said the factory was in Broughton, and as you know being a good Salfordian like myself thats a mile or so away.

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Salfordian,

I did see Look North West and agree that the memorials original location was probably as stated, what year was the Broghton factory vacated/demolished? I have a gut feeling that the memorial would have been moved with any staff to their new premises and as you pointed out earlier in the thread the dates for the closure of the Vere St works and the loss of the memorial are very close.

Pure speculation on my behalf. Worth looking at?

Garry

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Salfordian,

I did see Look North West and agree that the memorials original location was probably as stated, what year was the Broghton factory vacated/demolished? I have a gut feeling that the memorial would have been moved with any staff to their new premises and as you pointed out earlier in the thread the dates for the closure of the Vere St works and the loss of the memorial are very close.

Pure speculation on my behalf. Worth looking at?

Garry

Aye that's the next bit of the puzzle. I will see what I can find.

Steve

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Might this thread count as the fastest to reach "Classic Thread" status?

David

(amazed spectator)

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From a local History website. Date in bold. So the Broughton Facory closed in 1968 and the Vere St circa 1986 - did it move across Salford??

They both attended Radcliffe Secondary Modern School, but it wasn't until they started working at CWS cabinet works in 1941 that the two met. Eddie worked in the machine shop at the Dumers Lane factory, while Les was a saw doctor.

"We went out together one day when we were 14 and we have carried on ever since," said Les.

As the friendship blossomed, the boys met each other's parents and Eddie soon became a part of the McClurg family.

Les said: "My parents took Eddie under their wing and he became their second son. We're more like brothers than best friends. My mother would be very pleased to know that we are still friends today."

During the Second World War, both men left CWS to serve with the navy. They were both called up separately and served in different units, and it wasn't until the end of the war that they saw each other again. The men went back to work at CWS until 1968, when the factory closed and the workers were made redundant.

I had to chuckle when the BBC reporter was described as "Hercule Poirot" in respect of the discovery. All he did was open his emails!

There was harsh language in the Salfordian houshold at that moment.

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Might this thread count as the fastest to reach "Classic Thread" status?

David

(amazed spectator)

David - it hasn't been elevated to that illustrious status yet - far be it from me to suggest it should be.

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Given that 1931 was only 13 years on from the war, I have no doubt that the memorial would have been reverently treated and moved properly at that time.

The sort of neglect that saw it abandoned would have only have been recent. So it looks like it may have moved perhaps a couple of times finally falling victim to the passage of time leaving no one to care for it - until 2009!

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Hi Pals,

I have received a response from Roy from the Salford Forum. He has given me permission to post his answer to whether he remembers seeing the memorial at the Vere St works.

Regards,

Garry

Garry,

Thanks for posting that, a very interesting read, I wonder if it would be possible, maybe by contacting BBC North West (?), to appeal for more former employees to make contact to add their confirmation that the Memorial was located at the Vere Street works?

Best regards,

Ian.

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Yes, it would be nice to confirm where the memorial was last but I suppose we have to allow the CWS to choose where it finally is re-installed.

It was lucky that the CWS have been proved to be the custodians rather than a defunct company. I think they can be trusted to do the right thing.

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Aye that's the next bit of the puzzle. I will see what I can find.

Steve

Steve,

Good luck with that quest!

I offer my recollection with a health warning it could be completely inaccurate.

I was a student at Salford University between 1987-1990 and used to drive along the M602 a lot. My memory of looking across at that area was that the demolition took place during that time period. So it was pretty much soon after the 1986 closure.

Of course there must be better sources such as the local Salford City Council, CWS themselves and, not least, any forum pals that are Manchester United fans who would have travelled past or parked nearby on match days?

Hope this helps,

Ian.

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Steve,

Good luck with that quest!

I offer my recollection with a health warning it could be completely inaccurate.

I was a student at Salford University between 1987-1990 and used to drive along the M602 a lot. My memory of looking across at that area was that the demolition took place during that time period. So it was pretty much soon after the 1986 closure.

Of course there must be better sources such as the local Salford City Council, CWS themselves and, not least, any forum pals that are Manchester United fans who would have travelled past or parked nearby on match days?

Hope this helps,

Ian.

Oh god yes. As my names says, I am a Salfordian and the Salford Docks are a totally different thing to Salford Quays. The same around Vere Street.

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It seems the works were on Broughton Lane prior to the move to Vere Street.

Broughton Lane is just off Bury New Road and about a mile from Victoria Railway Station. In those days, Bury New Road had a tram line, so was well served with transport, for those travelling(?) from Clitheroe by rail. I wonder if there was some kind of accomodation used by the CWS, to house the skilled workers recruited from Clitheroe.

Just been looking at an old map of the area and the section that I think it must have been had a very large timber yard and a number of 'travelling cranes'. It was also very close to Broughton Iron Works. The area is a stones throw from Bury New Road, which at that time was a thriving area and had shops, pubs, banks etc., behind which were rows and rows of terraced housing. My grandfather and his brothers had a workshop/shop on Bury New Road (blow lamp makers - Reg (great uncle killed 1917) was their engineers clerk).

The area was cleared in the late 60s and 70s and this is probably around the time that the works moved to Vere Street. I remember the manager of the scrap metal business saying that it had been in a corner of one of their buildings for about 10 or 15 years, so it must have moved with the works to Vere Street, although both sites were subject to clearance and demolition. Thank goodness the scrapyard saved it!

As the original site was not Vere Street, my theory about the railway worker connection was wrong. Wondering if he had a family connection with the works?

Looking forward to hearing more about this CWS 'family'.

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I have just sent this to the Co-Op archives department. See if they can give us details.....

I am part of a team of enthusiasts who are interested in the men who are named on the recently found CWS Shop fitters memorial. A puzzle for us is why there are men listed from different areas of the UK, but mainly Clitheroe and Salford. Was there another site at Clitheroe? And were there two sites in Salford - one at Vere Street (Langworthy) and another in Broughton? Any help that you can give us would be appreciated.

If you have any questions about any of the CWS Memorials, let us know and we will see if our forum can solve them

Steve Hoar

Great War Forum

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Will be interesting to hear what the CWS say, Steve!

Just read back and noticed that the original site (Broughton Lane?) closed in 1931, so wonder whether they moved directly to Vere Street or if there was another? As IanW said, it would have been treated with respect in those days, so surely must have moved in 1931 (therefore wouldn't have been left until the Broughton Lane/Bury New Road clearance of the late 60s and 70s).

With so many CWS memorials missing, I wonder whether there was a clearout of the stores/cellars of the old Balloon Street headquarters, if they were possibly stored there after local closures?

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Will be interesting to hear what the CWS say, Steve!

Just read back and noticed that the original site (Broughton Lane?) closed in 1931, so wonder whether they moved directly to Vere Street or if there was another? As IanW said, it would have been treated with respect in those days, so surely must have moved in 1931 (therefore wouldn't have been left until the Broughton Lane/Bury New Road clearance of the late 60s and 70s).

With so many CWS memorials missing, I wonder whether there was a clearout of the stores/cellars of the old Balloon Street headquarters, if they were possibly stored there after local closures?

Indeed. There are a few CWS memorials missing. The CWS came across last night on TV a bit embarrassed, but I can name another two in the salford area according to the UKIWMs that are missing. Its amazing that large "For the workers" organisations lose memorials.

I also remember that when Ian Hislop did that "Lost Generation" programme a few years back he found a memorial in a skip that had come from a bank and one from a Hospital.

I used to work at the Deaprtment of Transport in Manchester and they had a memorial there. god knows where it went after the building closed.

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A reply From the Co-op Achives

Dear Steve

Thanks for your enquiry regarding the CWS shop fitters memorial. The site was originally in Broughton and in 1931 moved to Vere Street. We have not yet seen a list of the names of the memorial so until now we didn’t know that some of the men were from Clitheroe. If you are able to provide us with a list of the names we would be most grateful.

Yours sincerely,

Adam Shaw

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Hi Again one and all. Its me again! I think we all agree losing war memorials is a tragedy. Its time something was done. The War Memorials Trust and the UKNIWM volunteers and staff are working their socks off to try and stem the tide not only rescuing, restoring and relocating them but simply recording them. We all know of memorials under threat, I know of 4 as I write. Anyone seen the state of the Kings Liverpool Regiment Memorial in the centre of Liverpool lately?

This is a powerful group, these 'Pals' on the forum. What can we do? as individuals? as a force to be reckoned with? Let MP's know how we feel? Councillors? Church authorities? War memorials are statements about our heritage and represent the sacrifices made to allow us to live as we do. We need to stand up and be counted in a very public way to defend memorials from theft, apathy and abuse.

What do we do next? Anything??

Mike Coyle

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well done Steve. I wonder if anyone has already taken the list of names and annotated it with the born/res/enlisted info from SDGW . I would think this likely. If so it would be nice to bash it off to the CWS as they seem in need of it.

I am still most interested in resolving the issue about Clitheroe's importance and I would hope that the CWS will be able to answer that eventually.

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A reply From the Co-op Achives

Dear Steve

Thanks for your enquiry regarding the CWS shop fitters memorial. The site was originally in Broughton and in 1931 moved to Vere Street. We have not yet seen a list of the names of the memorial so until now we didn't know that some of the men were from Clitheroe. If you are able to provide us with a list of the names we would be most grateful.

Yours sincerely,

Adam Shaw

Happy to supply a list of names and info to date. mike.coyle@btinternet.com

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Hi Again one and all. Its me again! I think we all agree losing war memorials is a tragedy. Its time something was done. The War Memorials Trust and the UKNIWM volunteers and staff are working their socks off to try and stem the tide not only rescuing, restoring and relocating them but simply recording them. We all know of memorials under threat, I know of 4 as I write. Anyone seen the state of the Kings Liverpool Regiment Memorial in the centre of Liverpool lately?

This is a powerful group, these 'Pals' on the forum. What can we do? as individuals? as a force to be reckoned with? Let MP's know how we feel? Councillors? Church authorities? War memorials are statements about our heritage and represent the sacrifices made to allow us to live as we do. We need to stand up and be counted in a very public way to defend memorials from theft, apathy and abuse.

What do we do next? Anything??

Mike Coyle

Mike

I have sent a list to the CWS, but thanks for the offer. Memorial Man has done a great amount of research and I have pushed the CWS to his website and the page about the memorial.

I know what you mean about the state of memorials. I pushed my local MP, council and councillors to the limit over the state of my local memorial and after 6 months of non-stop mither by me, they did what I asked. So I know that it is an upward task!

May I thank you and everyone at the WMT and the UKNIWMs for the work that you do.

Steve

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Mike,

Thanks for your interesting comments.

I agree that there are some natural synergies/common interests between the WMT and Forum members. We should certainly explore where we can support each other.

You might usefully put some information about the activities of the WMT on the Forum. I am sure that it would be of interest to us all.

Regards Ian

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Salford Docks are a totally different thing to Salford Quays.

Salford Quays are the old Salford Docks rebranded for the Corrie actors and City footballers who can't afford Wilmslow yet. They made up the vast majority of Manchester Docks. A bit of a misnomer as only one dock was in Manchester, but Salford is just West Manchester really...

As for resiting it on Vere Street or in Broughton, I fear that it would make a reappearance in a scrapyard extremely quickly if that was so.

There are loads of grand Co-Op buildings on Cross Street in Manchester where it would take pride of place.

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but Salford is just West Manchester really...

Not raising to the bait.

As for resiting it on Vere Street or in Broughton

Did I miss a post about this?

Regards,

Garry

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